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  1. nyallj's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdmogren View Post
    Before you buy, read an honest review: Veer 4G review | This is my next...
    'Honest review'? I beg to differ. That review comes across to me like a webOS hater trying to bash just for bashing's sake.

    I mean, he rates the phone at 5/10. And lists the cons:

    1. Performance spotty. But no video showing this performance spottiness. Only him in an email app deleting messages from out of his Trash (which has 300+ messages in it) one at a time while the phone is trying to do something else in the background. And then he opens the App Catalog to show how slow it is, and the catalog opens right away and he says "Oh, that was fast, but I saw it go slower before".

    2. Not all webOS apps are compatible. Somebody had to say something about the amount of apps right?

    3. The screen is tiny. Wow! I don't know if he expected the 3 inch phone to have a 4.5 inch screen?!

    That's it. 5/10 and those are the cons. SMH.
    NNJ
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdmogren View Post
    Before you buy, read an honest review: Veer 4G review | This is my next...
    I actually just finished reading Josh's review. As big a fan I am of webOS, I'm also a huge Joshua Topolsky fan, so I took his review seriously.

    He's right in nearly all his points. The main thrust of his objections are with HP's handling of webOS, and how the Veer is betting on a market that may not exist and is a waste of resources. I agree.

    But he also calls out bugs in webOS that we've all either become used to, learned to avoid, or moved on to another platform. I know webOS's shortcomings and how to get around them, and really want to use the platform on a tiny device like the Veer. So I have no qualms about buying this device.
    Last edited by VCI_Cell; 05/09/2011 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Had to replace F-boy with "fan," because PreCentral thinks we're ****ing children.
  3. j_benj's Avatar
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       #43  
    Before you buy, read an honest review
    IMO, the webOSRoundup videos on the Veer are much more telling from a real-world standpoint than Josh T's review. Besides, his biggest issue with the Veer is that email problem which I have never experienced on the two webOS devices I've had in the past.

    And on a side note, I will go so far as to say the PC and webOSRoundup reviews of the Veer may contain some bias, but I did not get the impression that either one of them were dishonest. Just because someone says negative things about a device and someone else does not in no way indicates that the positive review is dishonest.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    'Honest review'? I beg to differ. That review comes across to me like a webOS hater trying to bash just for bashing's sake.

    I mean, he rates the phone at 5/10. And lists the cons:

    1. Performance spotty. But no video showing this performance spottiness. Only him in an email app deleting messages from out of his Trash (which has 300+ messages in it) one at a time while the phone is trying to do something else in the background. And then he opens the App Catalog to show how slow it is, and the catalog opens right away and he says "Oh, that was fast, but I saw it go slower before".

    2. Not all webOS apps are compatible. Somebody had to say something about the amount of apps right?

    3. The screen is tiny. Wow! I don't know if he expected the 3 inch phone to have a 4.5 inch screen?!

    That's it. 5/10 and those are the cons. SMH.
    I disagree that he's a "hater." JT has been a big webOS cheerleader for years, and it's clear he's getting impatient with HP basically giving us a 1.0 email experience in a third-gen product. I don't blame him. He's making legitimate complaints, and that's his job. I'm glad he's doing it, because there's a chance HP will start fixing some long-standing problems in webOS if he does it enough and it becomes clear customers agree.

    That said, yeah ... swiping to delete items in a synced folder like Trash is one of the things webOS does worst, but it's something that not a lot of people are going to be doing. His swipes also weren't very clear - I doubt even an iPhone would have interpreted some of those properly. I found it an odd complaint to make.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    I actually just finished reading Josh's review. As big a fan I am of webOS, I'm also a huge Joshua Topolsky fan, so I took his review seriously.

    He's right in nearly all his points. The main thrust of his objections are with HP's handling of webOS, and how the Veer is betting on a market that may not exist and is a waste of resources. I agree.

    But he also calls out bugs in webOS that we've all either become used to, learned to avoid, or moved on to another platform. I know webOS's shortcomings and how to get around them, and really want to use the platform on a tiny device like the Veer. So I have no qualms about buying this device.
    I really appreciate your comments because I'm trying to re-evaluate webOS in terms of other choices, both for myself and for a business colleague.
    If webOS email is underperforming other phones, we may need to move to business phones with greater performance and therefore implicit greater support in the marketplace.

    I am wondering about the email lag, both with deleting emails and scrolling. Have you found a way to get around it or is this just one of those bugs you have "become used to?"

    I'm wondering also if this "lag" will be better on the Pre3.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    'Honest review'? I beg to differ. That review comes across to me like a webOS hater trying to bash just for bashing's sake.

    I mean, he rates the phone at 5/10. And lists the cons:

    1. Performance spotty. But no video showing this performance spottiness. Only him in an email app deleting messages from out of his Trash (which has 300+ messages in it) one at a time while the phone is trying to do something else in the background. And then he opens the App Catalog to show how slow it is, and the catalog opens right away and he says "Oh, that was fast, but I saw it go slower before".

    2. Not all webOS apps are compatible. Somebody had to say something about the amount of apps right?

    3. The screen is tiny. Wow! I don't know if he expected the 3 inch phone to have a 4.5 inch screen?!

    That's it. 5/10 and those are the cons. SMH.

    Do you know who Josh is or have any idea about his history with WebOS? He has consistently been a huge fan and been pulling for Palm/HP. He even said in his twitter today that he wanted to like the phone...

    I really just have to agree with him, I kept my pre longer than I've ever kept any other phone waiting for HPalm to get their act together, but it just doesn't seem to be happening. Android has it's shortcomings for sure but it's fast and has so many more apps and so much more happening... Hopefully someday WebOS can win me back... but for now, farewell.

    Oh PS I just picked up the Nexus S 4G yesterday.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    'Honest review'? I beg to differ. That review comes across to me like a webOS hater trying to bash just for bashing's sake.

    I mean, he rates the phone at 5/10. And lists the cons:

    1. Performance spotty. But no video showing this performance spottiness. Only him in an email app deleting messages from out of his Trash (which has 300+ messages in it) one at a time while the phone is trying to do something else in the background. And then he opens the App Catalog to show how slow it is, and the catalog opens right away and he says "Oh, that was fast, but I saw it go slower before".

    2. Not all webOS apps are compatible. Somebody had to say something about the amount of apps right?

    3. The screen is tiny. Wow! I don't know if he expected the 3 inch phone to have a 4.5 inch screen?!

    That's it. 5/10 and those are the cons. SMH.
    Josh is definitely not a webOS hater...
  8. nyallj's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    I disagree that he's a "hater." JT has been a big webOS cheerleader for years, and it's clear he's getting impatient with HP basically giving us a 1.0 email experience in a third-gen product. I don't blame him. He's making legitimate complaints, and that's his job. I'm glad he's doing it, because there's a chance HP will start fixing some long-standing problems in webOS if he does it enough and it becomes clear customers agree.

    That said, yeah ... swiping to delete items in a synced folder like Trash is one of the things webOS does worst, but it's something that not a lot of people are going to be doing. His swipes also weren't very clear - I doubt even an iPhone would have interpreted some of those properly. I found it an odd complaint to make.
    Just a question: there's no empty Trash Folder option in the email app?
    NNJ
  9. #49  
    Yeah, Josh is not a hater, he is very much webOS fan. However, if you heard his podcast, he had issue with the small size of Veer. I don't think he hates the phone but he was just questioning HP's goal with this phone. He understood that there's people who is looking for small phone but is that marketable? webOS deserves much better treatment, I think he really wanted HP to come out with awsome hardware which webOS's fans been waiting for all this long. And HP gave us Veer.
    by spec, this isn't the top notch. And he was saying, nobody was saying they needed a bigger bag because iPhone is just too big or heavy to carry it around. There's not many people complaining about the size of iPhone. I agreed 100%. Veer wasn't the answer, and we all know this phone is not going to do well. Hopely Pre 3 does little better.
  10. j_benj's Avatar
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       #50  
    Android has it's shortcomings for sure but it's fast and has so many more apps and so much more happening
    Yup. I have a crapload of apps on my Android phone. How many do I actually use? Maybe 10 tops. How many of those work consistently without "force closing"? Maybe 5 or 6. Even my homescreen crashes from time to time on Android. That junk coupled with the horrible memory management (after bootup I only have about 100mb of the 512mb free), I've about had my fill of Android after 6 months of running it. I'm not even going to go into the completely dogsh*t battery life my Epic gets.. my iPhone4 completely owns it.

    I hope the Nexus works out for you, seriously. No malice intended. I've had a HORRIBLE experience with Android, and Samsung. I will NEVER EVER in my life buy another Samsung product of any kind.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by j_benj View Post
    Yup. I have a crapload of apps on my Android phone. How many do I actually use? Maybe 10 tops. How many of those work consistently without "force closing"? Maybe 5 or 6. Even my homescreen crashes from time to time on Android. That junk coupled with the horrible memory management (after bootup I only have about 100mb of the 512mb free), I've about had my fill of Android after 6 months of running it. I'm not even going to go into the completely dogsh*t battery life my Epic gets.. my iPhone4 completely owns it.

    I hope the Nexus works out for you, seriously. No malice intended. I've had a HORRIBLE experience with Android, and Samsung. I will NEVER EVER in my life buy another Samsung product of any kind.
    I haven't had that experience so far, and to be fair this is my second android phone, I had the original Moto Droid for about a month on VZW. Hopefully vanilla android works out a lot better than the contaminated version on the Epic. My other phone (dumb phone) is on VZW and due for an upgrade, maybe I'll get an iPhone there, would love to see an LTE variant tho...

    All I can really say at this point is that 24 hours on the Nexus has been a huge breath of fresh air vs my overclocked Pre- with WebOS 2.1 and it's constant lagging/freezing/general crapping out.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    I really appreciate your comments because I'm trying to re-evaluate webOS in terms of other choices, both for myself and for a business colleague.
    If webOS email is underperforming other phones, we may need to move to business phones with greater performance and therefore implicit greater support in the marketplace.

    I am wondering about the email lag, both with deleting emails and scrolling. Have you found a way to get around it or is this just one of those bugs you have "become used to?"
    I've found that regardless of the power of a given piece of hardware, some aspects of webOS will always lag behind. For me, email is one of them.

    So there's lag that's present in the email app, and if you're a power user who needs to be able to select a ton of emails for mass delete/archive activity, or if you need to be able to power through 5-10 emails using swipe-to-delete ... webOS probably isn't for you. It's going to be corrected in 3.0 it looks like, but as of now it's not something I'd recommend for a power user.

    For my personal email, it's fine. I've learned to anticipate a couple seconds' worth of delay here and there in the email app, and that has governed how I interact with the app. It's not horrible by any stretch! It's just not something suitable for a power user.


    I'm wondering also if this "lag" will be better on the Pre3.
    Just IMO, I think until they release the 3.0 version, the current version will continue to suffer no matter what horsepower is driving it.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdmogren View Post
    I haven't had that experience so far, and to be fair this is my second android phone, I had the original Moto Droid for about a month on VZW. Hopefully vanilla android works out a lot better than the contaminated version on the Epic. My other phone (dumb phone) is on VZW and due for an upgrade, maybe I'll get an iPhone there, would love to see an LTE variant tho...
    I'm fairly certain your vanilla Android experience will seriously outperform skinned Android. The Nexus S caught my eye as well, and is the only Android option I would consider anymore.

    All I can really say at this point is that 24 hours on the Nexus has been a huge breath of fresh air vs my overclocked Pre- with WebOS 2.1 and it's constant lagging/freezing/general crapping out.
    Well, of course your first day's experience with out-of-box condition, modern hardware running a clean build of a more popular OS has been better than a two-year-old Pre minus, with an overclocked processor and running a build of the OS it was never designed to support. I mean, really? This is the comparison you choose to draw?
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    I
    So there's lag that's present in the email app, and if you're a power user who needs to be able to select a ton of emails for mass delete/archive activity, or if you need to be able to power through 5-10 emails using swipe-to-delete ... webOS probably isn't for you. .
    I appreciate your comments. I am Ok with lag but my concern is with a potential unsuccessful relaunch by HP.
    I am unwilling to stay with webOS if the market has a thumbs down on competitive performance.

    The marketplace is giving webOS a second look because of the merger and new product. But as we see with RIM and Xoom, the market is fast moving and products are judged immediately versus other choices in the marketplace and the effect quickly rolls through the marketplace and affect dev interest and customer interest. There seems only a short window of tolerance (as RIM is discovering right now).

    So it concerns me that email has a "lag" versus other phones. I think the window is still open though, thru the debut of the TouchPad in the summer and if it goes well, the Veer will not have a negative impact. Especially also if Pre3 goes well.

    That said, I would never go to Android. Blackberry concerns me because it is struggling now with its transition and the OS is fragmenting between different versions--I won't go through that again.
    Looks like that would leave iphone if webOS fails.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    I'm fairly certain your vanilla Android experience will seriously outperform skinned Android. The Nexus S caught my eye as well, and is the only Android option I would consider anymore.
    Personally, I'm waiting for the Galaxy S II to hit T-Mo.
    Want to keep up with my exciting new projects? You know where to find me.
  16. #56  
    bluenote: Sure, perception is a real factor to consider in future planning!

    BB doesn't know what it's doing, IMO. They announced OS 7 (really OS 6.1 re-named), which is going to be released and then obsoleted when then announce QNX on phones in barely a year ... they seem to be firmly out of touch with reality.

    HP, by contrast, knows exactly what they want to do - scale up webOS to huge adoption. They're just being very deliberate about it (and slow). I agree with you that we still have the summer and fall to get through before we can really get a handle on how re-launched webOS is going to be received by the public, and I don't think either a diploma or death certificate is warranted until the end of 2012, really. Personally, I have faith in HP - they didn't get to be where they are by being stupid - but some rumors concerning how the Palm group is being handled (lack of support) concern me.

    I'm willing to wait and see, continuing to use webOS on new hardware as it releases, in the meantime. My time with Android was fun in that I could do more, but the experience was just ... brutal. I'm a happier person using webOS.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    bluenote:

    ...HP, by contrast, knows exactly what they want to do - scale up webOS to huge adoption...some rumors concerning how the Palm group is being handled (lack of support) concern me...
    My perception also is that the Palm team is overworked. I'm not sure why more staff is not put into place. If HP is concerned about ROI so is keeping costs down, that may be penny wise and pound foolish as I think the window of tolerance is short right now in this market and reviewers will be brutal--launch of TouchPad and Pre3 needs to be great, if early reviews are very negative, HP may not be able to recover for some time (more time than I would be willing to wait, my 2 years is up and am not willing to wait another 18 months).
  18. j_benj's Avatar
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       #58  
    well i stopped by my local AT&T store today on my way home from work and they said they will have the Veer in stock on Sunday, but it's first come first serve, so looks like I'll be showing up when they open. doubt it'll sell out, but can't hurt to be sure just in case they only get a handful of units in.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by j_benj View Post
    well i stopped by my local AT&T store today on my way home from work and they said they will have the Veer in stock on Sunday, but it's first come first serve, so looks like I'll be showing up when they open. doubt it'll sell out, but can't hurt to be sure just in case they only get a handful of units in.
    I think I'll be doing same! Wonder if they'll offer it on prepaid on launch day ... I'd hate to sign a 2-year with AT&T.
  20. j_benj's Avatar
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       #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    I think I'll be doing same! Wonder if they'll offer it on prepaid on launch day ... I'd hate to sign a 2-year with AT&T.
    yeah i was skeptical about signing a contract with them but I've talked to a few friends who have AT&T service in my area and they all say it's good here. so i guess i'm fortunate that i happen to live in an area where they have great coverage. i looked into the $ of the contract and it'll actually be cheaper than my Sprint bill (considering I'm paying the $10/mo 4G tax in an area where I get no 4G and they're raising my insurance another $1 a month).

    pretty much a wash for me.. and i might start getting some signal in places I don't get it now since the GSM signal seems to penetrate my office building better than CDMA.
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