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  1. nyallj's Avatar
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    #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    Wow, great business practice. I think HP should announced the whole world that webOS doesn't have any bug, it's of ex-webOS user's fault. They are must be an ***** to have tons of issues that clearly it's not webOS's fault.
    You speak as thought there is an OS out there without issues.
    But you miss the point entirely. You can not perform a gesture incorrectly on a touch device and when it does not do what you expect say that the device is at fault.
    NNJ
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    Wow, great business practice. I think HP should announced the whole world that webOS doesn't have any bug, it's of ex-webOS user's fault. They are must be an ***** to have tons of issues that clearly it's not webOS's fault.
    I'm not saying there wasn't an issue, but if you watch the video, he clearly isn't swiping enough all the time. Some of the issue was also being caused by searching, syncing, and deleting at the same time. Again I'm not saying there isn't an issue, but to make one video and focus solely on an issue that most people will never see, doesn't make any sense.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    All reviews are going to be from the perspective of the reviewer. Reviews are entirely subjective. I think Josh doesn't believe there is a market for a small smart phone. He may be right, he may be wrong. If there is a market then he'll be proven wrong and I think he'd give a fairer shake to the Veer 2.
    Reviews for phones in particular, shouldn't be entirely from the reviewers perspective. I, myself, might not want a phone that small, but If somebody else I knew wanted one, I'd tell them it's a damn good phone.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    Having never heard of him before his reviews were posted I went across to see what he said.
    His language choice sounded more like a rant at HP and bitterness over some slight he may have experienced rather than a discussion of the phone's capabilities.
    In his video, he was performing the swipe operation like he had a few drinks and couldn't coordinate properly. Also, the phone was obviously trying to do something in the background. Which led to me thinking he deliberately set up something so that 'error' would simulate.
    He then opened the App Catalog saying it will be slow, and it pops up quite fast and he says: Oh, that was fast. But I saw it go slow before.

    Not credible at all, IMO.
    Sorry to go all defensive here, but what? Did you not read Engadget? That was where he is known from.

    He is also one of the last people who support webOS and believe that it still has a chance in the mainstream tech press (i.e., not on a specialized and dedicated site).

    Having met him (in real life!), he isn't the type that would do that. He wants the Veer to be good; he's stated, over and over and over, that the portrait slider is his preferred form factor for a phone. Not the iPhone, not the landscape QWERTY, not the BlackBerry.

    And yet he's pointing out some flaws with this specific device, and you jump to conspiracy theories. Perhaps it is that he is in an area with poor coverage (which still isn't an excuse; an Android device, BlackBerry, or iPhone doesn't stutter like that), but it's still a relevant critique based on his conditions, which could mimic many others'.

    My point here is that those problems aren't acceptable anymore; hopefully, HP will realize this and fix them. If they do, great. I look forward to the Pre 3. If they don't, well... there are better operating systems out there.

    (I'm a bit disappointed in Palm/HP with the Veer; the form factor and hardware seems to almost be there, but this time the software is continuing to lack a bit. Sorry if that seemed overly pointed towards you )
  5. nyallj's Avatar
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    #125  
    How credible could his review has been. He's holding a 3 inch phone and lists as a con screen far too small. What did he expect? A 4.5 inch screen?
    NNJ
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    Wow, great business practice. I think HP should announced the whole world that webOS doesn't have any bug, it's of ex-webOS user's fault. They are must be an ***** to have tons of issues that clearly it's not webOS's fault.
    He didn't say anything about HP. He's talking about Joshua Topolski, a professional blogger and review of tech products. He's supposed to review the entire phone, not scrolling in the email app. He reviewed deleting emails and scrolling in the email app, and the Veer got a 5 out of 10 for that. Whoop dee doo.
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  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    He didn't say anything about HP. He's talking about Joshua Topolski, a professional blogger and review of tech products. He's supposed to review the entire phone, not scrolling in the email app. He reviewed deleting emails and scrolling in the email app, and the Veer got a 5 out of 10 for that. Whoop dee doo.
    That's not why he gave the Veer a 5/10. He gave the Veer a 5/10 because he thinks it's not very good at anything.
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    That's not why he gave the Veer a 5/10. He gave the Veer a 5/10 because he thinks it's not very good at anything.
    Which he has failed to show.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    How credible could his review has been. He's holding a 3 inch phone and lists as a con screen far too small. What did he expect? A 4.5 inch screen?
    This is a huge point...

    How credible is it? Can it be taken seriously? Every time someone tries to promote WebOS now, all the *androids and iboys are going to say, 'oh well the great Joshua Topolski said there were problems with WebOS so hahaha'.. It's really just not good for a review like this to come out, whether it's (clearly) bias or not.
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    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by JKK Photography View Post
    Perhaps it is that he is in an area with poor coverage (which still isn't an excuse; an Android device, BlackBerry, or iPhone doesn't stutter like that), but it's still a relevant critique based on his conditions, which could mimic many others'.

    My point here is that those problems aren't acceptable anymore; hopefully, HP will realize this and fix them. If they do, great. I look forward to the Pre 3. If they don't, well... there are better operating systems out there.

    (I'm a bit disappointed in Palm/HP with the Veer; the form factor and hardware seems to almost be there, but this time the software is continuing to lack a bit. Sorry if that seemed overly pointed towards you )
    HP should fix his coverage problem? And that's your excuse for a poorly done blog? Seems like you've personally handled the Veer to know the software is still lacking though. I have to bow to your experience with the Veer.
    NNJ
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    How credible could his review has been. He's holding a 3 inch phone and lists as a con screen far too small. What did he expect? A 4.5 inch screen?

    No, he felt as if he were holding a Veer. Are you saying that the smartphone that is marketed as being able to do anything that a larger smartphone can do, but in a much smaller package, actually can't do everything? And that he was wrong to take the marketing at face value?

    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    That's not why he gave the Veer a 5/10. He gave the Veer a 5/10 because he thinks it's not very good at anything.
    Exactly. Attacking Josh for reviewing the phone poorly isn't wise. You guys should take his thoughts, see if you agree, and then give them to HP. If you just critique any critique of the product, then nothing will ever get fixed.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by StuntmanMark View Post
    Which he has failed to show.
    Exactly. I would LOVE to see this video of the lag he was encountering inside various apps, and switching apps.. really I would LOVE to see it! It would probably consist of: "Okay, lets see if this lags here OOHP no wow that was faster than I thought.. okay zip doo da lets try this hmmm wow still faster than I thought hmm better not put this video into my review..."
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  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by StuntmanMark View Post
    Which he has failed to show.
    I think his closing paragraph explains why he gave the Veer a 5/10:

    AT&T is currently offering the Veer 4G at $99 with a two-year contract. That may seem like a great deal, but when you consider you could have the Inspire 4G, or Captivate — both more powerful, full featured devices — for the same price, it might make you do a double take. Furthermore, you could get an iPhone 3GS or Samsung Focus for half the price! At the end of the day, there is nothing inspiring, exciting, or deeply original about the Veer 4G. As a webOS device, it underperforms the Pre 2. From a pure features and apps perspective, it’s easily bested by iOS and Android devices in the same price range. So really, the only factor here that could be potentially appealing to customers is the size and inclusion of a hardware QWERTY keyboard, and that’s not much to go on as far as I’m concerned. If HP and Palm wanted to make a splash back into the smartphone game, the Veer was not the device to do it with. In fact, it might have been a smarter move to wait on the release of the Pre 3 and TouchPad to reintroduce webOS to the world. As it stands now, the Veer has taken the remaining embers of excitement I had about the operating system and its devices and all but extinguished them.
    You guys have to stop getting defensive and thinking he's calling your baby ugly. These are very valid reasons for not liking the Veer.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by JKK Photography View Post
    No, he felt as if he were holding a Veer. Are you saying that the smartphone that is marketed as being able to do anything that a larger smartphone can do, but in a much smaller package, actually can't do everything? And that he was wrong to take the marketing at face value?
    No, you can't review a phone that's marketed as small and put a CON as "It's too small." And he was wrong, because it CAN do everything a larger smartphone can do, but in a much smaller package. I can see him taking off a point for only 8gb and no expansion, I can see him taking another for some webos bugs, but to knock off five points and never show videos of what he was having problems with leads me to believe he is full of BS, creating his own 'phantom' issues with webOS and waiting for the Pre 3 to be his savior. It's crap, total crap.
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  15. nyallj's Avatar
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    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I think his closing paragraph explains why he gave the Veer a 5/10:



    You guys have to stop getting defensive and thinking he's calling your baby ugly. These are very valid reasons for not liking the Veer.
    Man, don't post for posting's sake please. You sound ignorant. He didn't ever call it ugly, he called it 'cute'.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKK Photography View Post
    No, he felt as if he were holding a Veer. Are you saying that the smartphone that is marketed as being able to do anything that a larger smartphone can do, but in a much smaller package, actually can't do everything? And that he was wrong to take the marketing at face value?
    Is my English so bad you can't understand it? Where did I ever say the phone can't do everything?
    NNJ
  16. #136  
    @nappy

    If that were true, and wasn't JT B.S., then the TouchPad and Pre 3 reviews would be up already and they would both get a 5/10, because "From a pure features and apps perspective, it’s easily bested by iOS and Android devices in the same price range. " [no matter what price range Pre 3 and Touchpad come out at].

    This was BIAS from the beginning. Crap, total crap.
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  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    You guys have to stop getting defensive and thinking he's calling your baby ugly. These are very valid reasons for not liking the Veer.
    You can't not like something because you like something else. That makes no sense at all, and is just plain stupid.
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  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by StuntmanMark View Post
    His video focused on one problem. Half of that problem was user error. He wasn't doing enough of a swipe. If they had made it so it took a smaller swipe to delete, he probably would've complained about that too. My issue with his review, was that he did it from his perspective, which is not how a review should be done. He could say that the size wasn't for him, but there are some people who may like it. He also failed to show a performance issue (besides email).
    He's used a webOS device before, he knows how to swipe. Frankly, swiping can be finicky for me, too and I've had the phone a year and a half now. We can call it user error, but at the end of the day, if it's annoying...it's annoying.

    Is he required to demonstrate the delete and scrolling problem in every app? ESPECIALLY since anyone who has used a webOS device knows the scrolling tends to lag. All he did was show that lag has a software component that hardware cannot overcome. And even if he didn't show it in every app...email is pretty major, especially for business, which he specifically calls out. webOS's PIM apps have been lackluster since June 2009 and all he did was pinpoint that out. I don't care that Enyo is supposedly around the corner...he did a review on what he had in his hands. And we still have no idea what improvements, if any, Enyo will bring to the other apps on the phone (we've seen the updated, but just barely, calendar on the Touchpad).

    As for the size issue, if he wants to say the size is a detriment, there's nothing wrong with that. You can't take a phone that's small and throw an OS on it that's optimized to be used on a device that is larger. For example, an easy way to improve the text problem on the Veer is enable text reflow on webOS, so users don't have to pinch and zoom all over the place or scroll back and forth. But webOS does not have that. If you have a phone where the size is the selling point, the size cannot get in the way of function and usage. Josh is not the only person to complain about an aspect of the Veer's size, P|C went on at length about the cumbersome and ugly adapter you have to use due to the Veer's size. There's no point making a tiny phone if it's a PITA to use and ill-suited to the software which runs it.
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  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    @nappy

    If that were true, and wasn't JT B.S., then the TouchPad and Pre 3 reviews would be up already and they would both get a 5/10, because "From a pure features and apps perspective, it’s easily bested by iOS and Android devices in the same price range. " [no matter what price range Pre 3 and Touchpad come out at].

    This was BIAS from the beginning. Crap, total crap.
    But that's exactly what HP is facing -- they have less features and less apps than their competitors. When you launch from that position, you have to release a truly compelling phone. Josh doesn't think the Veer is that phone. The Pre 3 could be, though.

    Leaving aside the issue of bias (which I don't believe is true -- Josh has said repeatedly that he likes webOS and was even quoted at the Think Beyond event), he's not the only one who doesn't like the Veer. PCWorld was underwhelmed by it. PreCentral's favorite site Laptop Mag didn't like it either. These are the reviews HP should be focusing on so they can actually get a feel for what people don't like about the Veer and fix it in future iterations.

    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    You can't not like something because you like something else. That makes no sense at all, and is just plain stupid.
    Sure you can. I don't like the Lakers because I like the Celtics.

    Besides, what Josh is saying is the Veer isn't a good buy because there are better products at lower pricepoints.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    He's used a webOS device before, he knows how to swipe. Frankly, swiping can be finicky for me, too and I've had the phone a year and a half now. We can call it user error, but at the end of the day, if it's annoying...it's annoying.
    I'm just saying, if you watch the video, at least some of it is user error. He also didn't demonstrate the error normally in the email app, he demonstrated it with other conditions that contributed (currently syncing and doing a search). Swiping has been finicky in the past, but that was on less powerful hardware, and a less optimized version of the os.

    I expect there to be poor reviews on any phone. This one in particular, just doesn't hold water. He doesn't show the performance issues, and doesn't even have a proper review video. The performance issues in the review, I take issue with, because every review and video I have seen has said that's one of the phone's best features. He has one video showing two issues. The email issue, I don't believe is accurate, and the app catalog issue doesn't even happen. I don't really know anything about (or have anything against) the reviewer, I just think he did a particularly poor review of this phone.
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