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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by circadia View Post
    Wow! That TIMN review was rough. Very different in tone from webOSroundup and P|C. And Topolsky's always been a webOS fan.

    If that's what a webOS fan thinks, imagine the smackdowns to come from iPhollowers. Ugh.

    Man, I hope the Pre 3 does better.
    When a webOS-focused site reviews a new webOS phone, I think there's a natural inclination to be more forgiving of a product's flaws -- especially since they're using the Pre and Pre 2 as a frame of reference. Josh uses Android, WP7, and iOS and almost every major smartphone finds its way into his hands. That gives him a wider perspective and, ultimately, results in a more balanced review.
  2. #102  
    Every complaint he lodged about the software and app/PDK status was completely valid. Maybe after two years of blowing these things off, HP/Palm will finally make it a priority.
    screwdestiny
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  3.    #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    When a webOS-focused site reviews a new webOS phone, I think there's a natural inclination to be more forgiving of a product's flaws -- especially since they're using the Pre and Pre 2 as a frame of reference. Josh uses Android, WP7, and iOS and almost every major smartphone finds its way into his hands. That gives him a wider perspective and, ultimately, results in a more balanced review.
    The broader comparison was helpful I agree. Also helpful was his comment that the Veer performs less well than the Pre2 as it gives me hope that the even faster chip of the Pre3 can buy HP some time to upgrade the phone software.

    Topolsky a real fan of webOS, hence his deep disappointment that HP relaunched with the slower performing Veer. He ended his review with a sentence about his webOS fire all but extinguished with this launch, only some one with great passion would write this, thus I believe he could be a fan again. But its up to HP now to show that the TouchPad and Pre3 are competitive.

    To be kind to HP/Palm, they may not have had a choice about release dates. ATT may have approved the Veer and given it the May slot early on (as counter marketing next to the large phone intro'd on the same day) whereas the carriers (ATT? VZW?) may still have been testing the Pre3. HP may have needed a phone on a carrier at the time TouchPad was launched and with the uncertainty of the Pre3's approval, they may have agreed to the Veer May slot.
    Last edited by bluenote; 05/09/2011 at 12:49 PM.
  4. #104  
    <<threads merged>>
  5. #105  
    With regards to Josh's review, I think it was a pretty fair review, but I have a hard time believing the app load times aren't competitive to what's currently on the market. I currently use an epic 4g and a 4th gen ipod touch, my experiences with these devices are similar to what I've seen with the Veer and hear from others who've used it.

    I will admit though, the standard webOS splash screens do give the illusion of longer load times. I'm not sure why Palm went to that.

    This is the first review I've seen where the writer was unsatisfied with performance.

    I also don't understand why people say its hard to read the veer's screen. The font sizes are the exact same as on the Pre. At most, you'll be scrolling more often, but it should be no more difficult on the eyes.

    I new Josh would be hard on the size of the device, but I was expecting around a 6-7. 5 makes it sound like the device is missing functionality.
  6. #106  
    Unfortunately, the Veer hurts webOS much more than it helps. It sports the newest version of webOS. Now the most current webOS device is deemed as subpar trying to target a market that is left up to the reviewer to attempt to determine.

    With the Pre 2 not even seen in Verizon stores, the Veer might be the only visible webOS device on the market in the US. This will shape perceptions of webOS.

    The focus should always be webOS. The mobile market is a software market. The hardware is roughly the same across platforms. Going out on a limb with the Veer is just...unnecessary. Ideally you want attractive hardware which will give the best webOS performance.

    The Touchpad is a solid attempt. The Pre 3 at least aims to raise the resolution, bump most specs, and increases the size of screen a bit. Hopefully a 4" slab will come later given it's by far the most popular consumer form factor.

    The Veer is just a bad idea whose time of release couldn't come at a worse time while in app & mindshare limbo. It wouldn't hurt if HP had an updated version of webOS at time of Pre 3 release that would enhance the reviews that hopefully has the best webOS experience yet.
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    #107  
    twas brutal
  8.    #108  
    PreCentral full review is up!
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    #109  
    I don't understand. webosroundup showed videos of the Veer's performance. PreCentral mentioned 40+ multiple apps (WOR managed 34) open and running simultaneously and overall good performance of the Veer. Yet Josh just says 'performance stutters' without saying why he thought so or providing a video. Looking at WOR's videos, I'm still awed by the performance of the phone and the awesomeness of webOS.
    IMO, his review comes across as a person very biased against HP and webOS. Everything he wrote about I could feel the hatred coming out from him. Why even review something if you're so biased against it?
    NNJ
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Unfortunately, the Veer hurts webOS much more than it helps. It sports the newest version of webOS. Now the most current webOS device is deemed as subpar trying to target a market that is left up to the reviewer to attempt to determine.

    With the Pre 2 not even seen in Verizon stores, the Veer might be the only visible webOS device on the market in the US. This will shape perceptions of webOS.

    The focus should always be webOS. The mobile market is a software market. The hardware is roughly the same across platforms. Going out on a limb with the Veer is just...unnecessary. Ideally you want attractive hardware which will give the best webOS performance.

    The Touchpad is a solid attempt. The Pre 3 at least aims to raise the resolution, bump most specs, and increases the size of screen a bit. Hopefully a 4" slab will come later given it's by far the most popular consumer form factor.

    The Veer is just a bad idea whose time of release couldn't come at a worse time while in app & mindshare limbo. It wouldn't hurt if HP had an updated version of webOS at time of Pre 3 release that would enhance the reviews that hopefully has the best webOS experience yet.
    i pretty much agree. i dont think the veer is a bad device, but the timing is realy questionable. at a time when marketshare is slipping and developers are losing interest, they should have put their primary effort into a device that had mass appeal.

    they should have saved the experimental stuff for when webOS has climbed out of the hole.
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    #111  
    I wonder if Josh's performance problems are somewhat due to his data connection speeds. For example, since he has email always synced, slow syncing slows down the email app as a whole. I don't sync my email and even on a pre- (1.4.5 at 800MHz), my email app doesn't behave half as bad while deleting and scrolling like Josh. Try it yourself. I'd like to see WOR and Precentral's take on this too. Still a good thing that Josh brought this issue up so that the Enyo email app will hopefully deal with it.
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    I don't understand. webosroundup showed videos of the Veer's performance. PreCentral mentioned 40+ multiple apps (WOR managed 34) open and running simultaneously and overall good performance of the Veer. Yet Josh just says 'performance stutters' without saying why he thought so or providing a video. Looking at WOR's videos, I'm still awed by the performance of the phone and the awesomeness of webOS.
    IMO, his review comes across as a person very biased against HP and webOS. Everything he wrote about I could feel the hatred coming out from him. Why even review something if you're so biased against it?
    It's probably because Josh is comparing the Veer to other platforms. If you truly believe he has some sort of anti-webOS agenda, you should probably avoid some of the other reviews that have come out since he published his.
  13. #113  
    Josh did provide a video. He clearly demonstrates his disappearing email problem, the finicky delete, and the scrolling stutter.

    As for the splash card, it didn't used to be there, but the extreme memory problems on the original Pre meant people were tapping apps and were unsure whether they were going to open or if a TMC was on its way. So the splash card came about to provide a more immediate response.
  14. #114  
    Quit the whining about Josh's review, people. Come on now, don't read reviews of HP products that come from non-HP fan boy websites if you all you want to do is convince yourself that the phone is great anyway. Listening to people who aren't fan boys=beneficial. SMH. Ridiculous.
  15. #115  
    << reopened >>
    Just call me Berd.
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    #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    It's probably because Josh is comparing the Veer to other platforms. If you truly believe he has some sort of anti-webOS agenda, you should probably avoid some of the other reviews that have come out since he published his.
    Having never heard of him before his reviews were posted I went across to see what he said.
    His language choice sounded more like a rant at HP and bitterness over some slight he may have experienced rather than a discussion of the phone's capabilities.
    In his video, he was performing the swipe operation like he had a few drinks and couldn't coordinate properly. Also, the phone was obviously trying to do something in the background. Which led to me thinking he deliberately set up something so that 'error' would simulate.
    He then opened the App Catalog saying it will be slow, and it pops up quite fast and he says: Oh, that was fast. But I saw it go slow before.

    Not credible at all, IMO.
    NNJ
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    Having never heard of him before his reviews were posted I went across to see what he said.
    His language choice sounded more like a rant at HP and bitterness over some slight he may have experienced rather than a discussion of the phone's capabilities.
    In his video, he was performing the swipe operation like he had a few drinks and couldn't coordinate properly. Also, the phone was obviously trying to do something in the background. Which led to me thinking he deliberately set up something so that 'error' would simulate.
    He then opened the App Catalog saying it will be slow, and it pops up quite fast and he says: Oh, that was fast. But I saw it go slow before.

    Not credible at all, IMO.
    It doesn't matter if he was drunk or not, if someone can reproduced the problem over and over, it's a bug. I had similar issue with my Pre Plus, and I believe josh had same issue with other webOS. I think that's the reason why he was trying it again to see if that issue went away. First it's 2.+ version of OS and we still have 1.x email app without picking more than one email to delete, it's shame. And Palm/HP is really slow on fixing any bugs anyway. Why do you try to make an excuse for HP? To is this was honest reason, and you have to hope that HP listen and improve it on Pre 3, I think they have more than a month to release that phone anyway.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    Josh did provide a video. He clearly demonstrates his disappearing email problem, the finicky delete, and the scrolling stutter.
    His video focused on one problem. Half of that problem was user error. He wasn't doing enough of a swipe. If they had made it so it took a smaller swipe to delete, he probably would've complained about that too. My issue with his review, was that he did it from his perspective, which is not how a review should be done. He could say that the size wasn't for him, but there are some people who may like it. He also failed to show a performance issue (besides email). The reason that bugs me is because every other review I've read or video I've seen has mentioned (and shown) great performance.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by StuntmanMark View Post
    His video focused on one problem. Half of that problem was user error.
    Wow, great business practice. I think HP should announced the whole world that webOS doesn't have any bug, it's of ex-webOS user's fault. They are must be an ***** to have tons of issues that clearly it's not webOS's fault.
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    #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by StuntmanMark View Post
    His video focused on one problem. Half of that problem was user error. He wasn't doing enough of a swipe. If they had made it so it took a smaller swipe to delete, he probably would've complained about that too. My issue with his review, was that he did it from his perspective, which is not how a review should be done. He could say that the size wasn't for him, but there are some people who may like it. He also failed to show a performance issue (besides email). The reason that bugs me is because every other review I've read or video I've seen has mentioned (and shown) great performance.

    All reviews are going to be from the perspective of the reviewer. Reviews are entirely subjective. I think Josh doesn't believe there is a market for a small smart phone. He may be right, he may be wrong. If there is a market then he'll be proven wrong and I think he'd give a fairer shake to the Veer 2.
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