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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennat View Post
    wow, Josh Topolsky is just turning into a hater. One thing that I don't like is negative analysts...
    I don't think that Josh is a hater. I think that Josh needs to review products from an objective angle and not what HE prefers. What HE prefers does sometimes enter into his reviews and so some of his reviews can be tinged with a hint of "Well, I like good Gmail integration and seeing as though this phone didn't have it, it falls short". I'm not saying that all of his reviews are that way, bc they aren't but some are. And since Josh is a fan of webOS and he has already stated on Twitter last week that he doesn't think that the Veer should have been released before Pre3, I'm going to look at his review of the Veer with a jaundiced eye.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    I don't think he's a hater at all. This phone just isn't for him and most of his readers who are tech hounds. If you listen to the podcast it's obvious he still really likes webOS. I just think he wants the power phone out now rather than in a couple months. If Palm would have already announced a release date, I think he'd be easier on the Veer. It seems when Palm says something will release during a season, they mean the end of that current season which means we'll get the Pre 3 in September.
    That was my impression from the podcast as well. I don't think he was nearly as negative on the Veer as the post above says, but you can listen for yourself to decide (or wait until the printed review).
  3.    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    I don't think that Josh is a hater. I think that Josh needs to review products from an objective angle and not what HE prefers. What HE prefers does sometimes enter into his reviews and so some of his reviews can be tinged with a hint of "Well, I like good Gmail integration and seeing as though this phone didn't have it, it falls short".
    Yes, this gets on my nerves also. Looking closely at his comments (see post #56), his issue is not with webOS but that there is no market for tiny phones. If no market of course he is disappointed that HP leads with this product rather than making a grand re-entrance to win back customers/carriers etc. He also is upset that the "specs" are mediocre.

    So the big question is he merely seeing from his "preference" as it seems he does often? Is he looking at his buddies and the current userbase for the larger android phones and the power "specs" and assuming the whole market is this way--a failure of imagination and/or research on his part? If he is, then his whole podcast review falls apart.

    It makes sense to me that the potential market is for more varied than the current android slab big spec phone popularity or even the iphone users would suggest.

    ps: whatever happened to those Veer launch parties? A bunch were scheduled but we have not heard anything since.
    Last edited by bluenote; 05/08/2011 at 12:35 PM.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennat View Post
    wow, Josh Topolsky is just turning into a hater. One thing that I don't like is negative analysts...
    This reminds me of an article David Pogue put out in the Scientific American the other month. LOL. Right on the money. Gadget Politics: Why Tech Fans Share the Love and Hate: Scientific American
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Yes, this gets on my nerves also. Looking closely at his comments (see post #56), his issue is not with webOS but that there is no market for tiny phones. If no market of course he is disappointed that HP leads with this product rather than making a grand re-entrance to win back customers/carriers etc. He also is upset that the "specs" are mediocre.

    So the big question is he merely seeing from his "preference" as it seems he does often? Is he looking at his buddies and the current userbase for the larger android phones and the power "specs" and assuming the whole market is this way--a failure of imagination and/or research on his part? If he is, then his whole podcast review falls apart.
    And that's my issue with some of Josh's reviews. He should review products for what they are. Not what he wants. He is reviewing the product for what it offers. Someone that looks at the review to make a determination shouldn't be subjected to anything less than a neutral observation that doesn't compare it to a 4in phone. If the phone runs slowly, deduct points. If the operating system is full of holes, deduct points. If the build quality is not good deduct points. But when your bias for 4in slabs with 1.2ghz dual cores starts to creep into your product reviews, you're doing the product you're reviewing a disservice. He could simply say that the phone isn't for him but he can see how it may appeal to some. But I doubt that he'd say that bc from the point of view he is coming from, he can't see why the Veer would appeal to anyone.

    Overall, the specs aren't a slouch and not everyone wants a 4.5in slab and every phone doesn't need a dual core 1.4ghz processor to run well. And it's ok if people want the monster slab with the over the top specs. But it should be ok that people also like a small phone that doesn't have dual cores.
    Last edited by playboy; 05/08/2011 at 01:39 PM.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    And that's my issue with some of Josh's reviews. He should review products for what they are. Not what he wants. He is reviewing the product for what it offers. Someone that looks at the review to make a determination shouldn't be subjected to anything less than a neutral observation that doesn't compare it to a 4in phone. If the phone runs slowly, deduct points. If the operating system is full of holes, deduct points. If the build quality is not good deduct points. But when your bias for 4in slabs with 1.2ghz dual cores starts to creep into your product reviews, you're doing the product you're reviewing a disservice. He could simply say that the phone isn't for him but he can see how it may appeal to some. But I doubt that he'd say that bc from the point of view he is coming from, he can't see why the Veer would appeal to anyone.

    Overall, the specs aren't a slouch and not everyone wants a 4.5in slab and every phone doesn't need a dual core 1.4ghz processor to run well. And it's ok if people want the monster slab with the over the top specs. But it should be ok that people also like a small phone that doesn't have dual cores.
    I agree for the most part. I think some of the more well known reviewers might speak to a certain kind of follower. For example one might have similar taste as Josh and value his review more than others.

    I think that is better accomplished as a standalone paragraph. Give an unbiased review and then have one paragraph relating it to his thoughts/needs.
  7. #87  
    I wish I was more surprised by Josh being thrown under the bus.

    Have you forgotten who he is? And how much he likes webOS? I think negative impressions of the Veer from a writer who goes out of his way to be complementary to webOS and make it seem more relevant than it was during the dark times carries a lot of weight.

    Reviews are just opinions, people. Asking Josh to be more artificially positive about the Veer is basically saying you want him to lie about what he thinks of the Veer.
  8.    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by pavvento View Post
    I agree for the most part. I think some of the more well known reviewers might speak to a certain kind of follower. For example one might have similar taste as Josh and value his review more than others.

    I think that is better accomplished as a standalone paragraph. Give an unbiased review and then have one paragraph relating it to his thoughts/needs.
    Sounds right to me. I see him trying to opine as a business consultant on what is the ideal product and market launch to re-invigorate webOS. I don't mind this as a stand alone paragraph alongside the review (and then we can debate the idea).

    I do think, however, he feels the dilemma of reviewing this product ahead of the other webOS products. Basically, he believes its a low-end product that does not stand out among a sea of androids. However, considering it among the family of HP webOS products, he may believe it has a place as a low end small webOS choice. But he can't go out and say that yet until he sees the whole group and can evaluate the "comeback" of webOS. Thus he is left disappointed and whining about the timing of its market launch.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Sounds right to me. I see him trying to opine as a business consultant on what is the ideal product and market launch to re-invigorate webOS. I don't mind this as a stand alone paragraph alongside the review (and then we can debate the idea).

    I do think, however, he feels the dilemma of reviewing this product ahead of the other webOS products. Basically, he believes its a low-end product that does not stand out among a sea of androids. However, considering it among the family of HP webOS products, he may believe it has a place as a low end small webOS choice. But he can't go out and say that yet until he sees the whole group and can evaluate the "comeback" of webOS. Thus he is left disappointed and whining about the timing of its market launch.
    He's evaluating the Veer for what it is right now -- the only HP branded webOS phone available on the market.

    Besides, the availability of TouchPad and Pre 3 won't change his opinion of the Veer. If anything, having the more powerful Pre 3 available would just make the Veer even less relevant.
  10.    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    He's evaluating the Veer for what it is right now -- the only HP branded webOS phone available on the market.

    Besides, the availability of TouchPad and Pre 3 won't change his opinion of the Veer. If anything, having the more powerful Pre 3 available would just make the Veer even less relevant.
    We're talking past each other. Listen again to the podcast. He is also evaluating it in context, talks about the marketing campaign, strategy of webOS overall. His comments are intertwined in the podcast with this theme.

    It was not just a simple review of the phone like some of the others mentioned in this thread.

    He may turn out to be right that no one wants a small phone and thus "a waste of [Palm/HP] resources" to make it. Or Palm/HP may be right. We'll have to see.
    Last edited by bluenote; 05/08/2011 at 03:00 PM.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by FischOderAal View Post
    I'm eagerly awaiting a teardown by iFixit. Unfortunately they did not tear down the Pre Plus or Pre2. Hence, I'm not hopeful :/ But seeing how crammed it was inside the Pre I don't think there will be any space left in the Veer.

    I don't think it was an afterthought. They probably thought "hey, let's make the smallest phone possible" and they wondered how often they used the headphone connector or the USB connector. They came to the conclusion that many people might rarely use both or even any of them, hence saving a few mm^3. The headphone connector seems to be an issue, Apple was granted a patent not long ago which significantly reduced the size of it. Do you think they would do that if it was oh so easy to integrate them in ever smaller phones?

    No, I don't think the adapters were an afterthought. They are a design decision.

    Are you a product engineer that you know how easy it is to engineer a phone of that size? You should go and see some teardowns. These things are CRAMMED to the brim, there's barely any space left. Being a Bachelor of mechanical engineering I admire the engineering these people do.
    I think this is one point that is overlooked by everyone critical of the Veer, it shows the level of HP's terrific development of hardware, to get all that...a fully functional WebOS phone without seemingly any shortcuts. It gives me hope for some really fun and innovative stuff in the future. I think the Touch Pad may have some surprises in fact. JMHO
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    #92  
    My main problem with a lot of tech critics is that they don't understand that every product isn't for them. Though, they do admit that they don't think there is a market for a small phone. If there is, HP needs to prove that there is a market. Critics are rarely forward thinking. They are always playing catch up to the market.
  13. #93  
    How many of you guys have actually listened to the quoted podcast?

    It was pretty clear that the core of JT's objection was how the Veer affects/indicates HP's strategy and resource allocation ... not the phone itself. You guys are talking about it like it was a full review. It wasn't. It was Josh riffing with Nilay and Paul and Chris, like every Thursday. Wait for the actual review to come out before you start calling him a "hater."
  14. #94  
    Veer 4G review | This is my next...

    Great review. This is what HP needs to see more of to get away from this line of thinking and also provides other areas to focus on. Hopefully they're paying attention.
    Last edited by cardfan; 05/09/2011 at 12:00 PM.
  15.    #95  
    Score: 5/10

    Topolsky full review has come out, last paragraph is below:

    "Pros

    Great QWERTY keyboard
    Cute design
    New additions to webOS are solid

    Cons

    Performance is spotty
    Not all webOS apps are compatible
    Screen is far too small"

    Veer 4G review | This is my next...

    Looking at the performance issue, he thinks email especially is too slow to open and too slow when deleting; autofill in contacts is also not as versatile as other phones, he says, although the comments to the blogs say he did not understand that merely typing contact initials would do autofill (initial of first name, initial of last name)
    This sounds like a major problem which makes the Veer not competitive with other business devices: I wonder if the Pre3's fast chip will overcome these issues.

    Additionally, Josh says many games need to be repurposed by devs to work with the lower resolution Veer screen, it is not automatic that they work with the Veer.

    These is another major issue, I agree.

    Interesting he says this below, which does give hope that the Pre3's faster chip will make a difference:
    "As a webOS device, it underperforms the Pre 2."

    However, some of the email issues may only be solved with an upgrade to the email client on webOS 2x devices. While I am sure Palm has something in the works, my impression was that the phones are taking a back seat to the TouchPad which means timeframe for upgrade could be indeterminate, we will have to assess the situation when the TouchPad and Pre3 w 2.3 comes out.
    Last edited by bluenote; 05/09/2011 at 01:13 PM.
  16. #96  
    This review perfectly reflects my impression of the Veer and the current status of WebOS. I hope HP can pull out of this nose dive.
  17. #97  
    Now if Josh will just fix his typos... argh.
  18. #98  
    Wow! That TIMN review was rough. Very different in tone from webOSroundup and P|C. And Topolsky's always been a webOS fan.

    If that's what a webOS fan thinks, imagine the smackdowns to come from iPhollowers. Ugh.

    Man, I hope the Pre 3 does better.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by FischOderAal View Post
    Did you ever use something with a magnetic connector? No? Then why are you badmouthing it?

    I for one love the magnetic connector. I never use a headset and barely plug my Pre to the USB port. This issue is extremely exaggerated. No, I'm going even further with saying it's not even an issue people claim it to be.

    Long story short: imho magnetic connectors are the best thing since sliced bread.

    Yes, I can see why people want both integrated instead of using an adaptor, but why are you condemning this solution before even trying it?

    What I would have preferred though would be that the USB thingy would be a simple adaptor as well, plugging into a micro USB.

    I don't see any issue with the adapters as well. I always carry the connectors for my MP3 player, my Pre and my k610i around. Each has a different connector, so what? When I'm out of the door I nearly every time have a backpack. I just leave them in it and be done. For the use at home I have other connectors (Touchstone etc.).
    I think I said "to each his own" but I obviously need to reply.

    Yes, I have tried magnetic connectors and sorry you think I have not. No, I do not believe it to be a viable option for a headphone jack adaptor, in my pocket, or anywhere else with motion to maintain a constant, uninterrupted, reliable connection. Your Apple example is to prevent the laptop from becoming a floor muffin if one trips over the cord...hence the ability to remove the cord/connector with a force not equal to pulling said laptop off surface to floor. A brilliant bit of engineering I might add...just not the best choice for use as a headphone jack...In My Opinion.

    Maybe you prefer carrying a handful of adaptors around to charge all your devices...I am content with micro USB on my phone because it means I can just about charge it anywhere with anyone else's charger who today typically has a micro USB. Once again, my preference and going back to a proprietary charging connector is more than just a perceived step backwards...it is.

    As for having the best of both worlds...why not supply a micro USB charger magnetic adaptor so it just plugs in to a micro USB charger? Or skip the whole magnetic thing and just use a micro USB port? One again...In My Opinion.

    And yes, in my opinion for my tastes, those two items remove the Veer from my short shopping list. It is ok if it is still on yours.

    Kipplitz
  20. #100  
    I think it was good review. I hope HP learn from this release and they do better on their future device.
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