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  1. nyallj's Avatar
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    #201  
    Considering that that site if iPhone and iPad biased (they have one section for 'Smartphones', one section for 'iPhone' (I guess that is not a smartphone) and one section for iPads), that is a pretty fair review I think.
    Edit - They liked the phone, and they like webOS, but appreciate that webOS (like all other software) can do with some refining. They however, don't rubbish the phone. Pretty objective. I like that.
    NNJ
  2. #202  
    First I've heard of performance issues? Did Precentral or Engadget find the same performance issues?

    She makes a comparison to 1ghz Android phones. Seems slightly biased. The Android phones and the Veer phones are targeted to two different audiences. The specs she says are missing are the same specs that are found on all the larger devices. The Veer wasn't made to compete with the larger Android phones or for that matter it wasn't made to compete against iphones.

    The only spec I can see that is left off that should have been there is an LED flash.
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
  3. nyallj's Avatar
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    #203  
    This thread can be merged with the other reviews thread. But man, you keep insisting on naming your threads such. Why not wait until you actually have a Veer in your hand before it is given such bad treatment?
    NNJ
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Strange, though, that Derek et al. haven't reported poor performance at all . . .
    Not too strange actually. Most of the reviews so far have come from websites that are devoted to webOS, which means they are more prone to overlook certain issues. It's like going to Rubenstein for a review of the Veer. Of course he's going to like it. I want to hear from the people who are relatively unfamiliar with the software because they will have a better perspective and show the opinion that you might find from your average cell phone buyer.
  5. #205  
    HP has to be very careful with new product release. Palm was able to get away with few of the OS performance issues because they can always blame it on the hardware. Now, we finally got a device with more than capable device and we'll have some of the blame directly pointing at the OS. Like this reviewer said,

    Yet despite the device having a pretty capable processor inside, performance on the device is its biggest let down. It’s likely that performance must be being held-back by webOS.
  6. j_benj's Avatar
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    #206  
    Pretty objective review, seems a fair assessment.

    I'm wondering if they're considering the app splash/loading cards as "lag"?
  7. nyallj's Avatar
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    #207  
    Might be a bigger hit with the female crowd than male crowd.
    NNJ
  8. #208  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    Might be a bigger hit with the female crowd than male crowd.
    Lets advertise Veer for mom's. Thats novel, nobody has done it before, right?
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  9. #209  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    Lets advertise Veer for mom's. Thats novel, nobody has done it before, right?
    LOL. My mom actually requires like 4+ inch screen, she can't read anything smaller.
  10. nyallj's Avatar
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    #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    Lets advertise Veer for mom's. Thats novel, nobody has done it before, right?
    Note: I didn't recommend that HP target any demographic in their ads.
    NNJ
  11. #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    Did he ever review the Centro or the Pixi? It would be interesting to see if he hated their size too. Or the Treo or any of the Blackberries whose screens are as small as that of the Veer.
    He reviewed both the Centro and the Pixi during his time at Engadget. Here, let me Google that for you:

    Engadget - Palm Pixi Review

    Engadget - Palm Centro Review
  12. #212  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    Makes sense for me. I read my books on the Treo Pro, and wish for a bigger screen constantly. The Veer's screen is slightly bigger, and before the Veer's reviews, I was thinking that I would get the Pre3. But after seeing the Veer's performance, I am thinking I can justify (to my wife) the cost of a Touchpad easier if I own a Veer, than if I own a Pre3. The argument? I can read better on the Touchpad than the Veer.
    This is exactly what I think will be the motive behind those getting the veer.
    I keep thinking the veer gets us back to the nice pocketable size we love about our treo/centro and compliments the TouchPad.
    I missed the point about the veer's screen-size being bigger than the Treo Pro.
    Just call me Berd.
  13. #213  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    His was the only review of about 5 I have read/watched that said the phone was slow and freezing up.
    That ignores the fact that it in fact was actually slow. And he provided you video evidence of the problem. The fact that other reviewers failed to notice does not erase the it in fact happened.

    He's shown evidence and you've chosen to turn a blind eye to the issue and call him bias. If you're willing to turn a blind eye to video evidence i'd say that's bias right there from the other side of the coin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    Others said it was snappy or fast & seemed surprised how quick the phone was with "only" an 800MHz processor.
    Others saying something doesn't negate Josh's problem. They are independent events. I'm on my first pre. I've never had an oreo problem. That does not mean the Oreo effect was not an issue. My friend had an iphone 4 and never had antenna issues. It's still a problem. I've only seen like 4 or five reviews anyways and at least two were from pre sites so you'd expect them to have a slant. But the premise that since others didn't mention it it's not an issue is logically wrong. I don't remember Oreo being mentioned in most Pre reviews or antenna dropouts in original iPhone reviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    He also couldn't get over the size of the phone. I mean, at the beginning, he kept mentioning & mentioning it. Did he not realize, the phone was meant to be small?
    The fact that it was purposely made small does not negate the fact that a small screen is a problem for a lot of consumers. Acting purposefully doesn't excuse something. Especially when in these very forums many have mentioned that it's "too small," where on the Palmcast the first they they said was "It's small!", It's perfectly valid to analyze, how a small screen size may negatively impact usability of a touch screen operating system reliant on doing the same thing in a much smaller surface space. You simply don't like that it's small size is viewed as a negative. That's just the flip side of those that level equally valid criticism that a random 4.3 inch droid phone would be too big.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    It was obvious he is tainted toward larger devices.
    As are a lot of people. It's a valid opinion held by many consumers that they want a larger screen size. He's expressed it. You just don't like what he had to say. Thus you've called him bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    Did he ever review the Centro or the Pixi? It would be interesting to see if he hated their size too.
    Not really sure why old phones are relevant but people are free to judge phones on the criteria of size, form factor, etc. What makes one person liking a larger screen or a different form factor anymore valid then a person liking a slider keyboard and a tiny screen? Nothing in my opinion. if if the size impacts usability i thing it has to be mentioned.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    Or the Treo or any of the Blackberries whose screens are as small as that of the Veer.
    Don't know again. Treos are ancient history. I don't see how they are relevant in this day and age, years after that phone was off the market. And i don't think until recently there's been a small screen touchscreen blackberries. But these days with blackberries consistently declining in market share and struggling to grow it's user base i don't see how even a review of a blackberry that said a small touch screen is okay is a positive. It would be nothing more the HP trying to be more like a company with declining products. But on the size thing even the ipod nano is criticized for having a screen too small. Cause the nano screen is ridiculously too small. Any device with a small screen is gonna get criticized. Its' not bias it happens to all of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    As for the keyboard, PreCentral just posted a video review and the couple times they used the keyboard, there didn't seem to be any problem whatsoever.
    Sorry, but I've had major keyboard issues so I've yet to see a palm pre, pixi whatever with a keyboard that satisfies me. But every review I've seen mentions that the keyboard is small and it's a problem for people with big hands i just don't get the idea that criticizing the keyboard is somehow something others haven't done. But that too is a matter of taste. Even it's still a fact not in dispute that the keyboard is smaller then it is on larger devices like the Pre 3 or horizontal sliders and thus people with bigger hands have to be more precise with their finger presses. He can't be criticized for pointing out facts just cause they don't fit the views of those with a vested rooting interest in the phone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    That's not to say the Veer is perfect.
    I don't think anyone who likes hates, or doesn't care about the Veer ever claimed it was "perfect" but what i have heard is the sentiment that no one shall criticize the Veer. That everyone who does is somehow a long standing "hater" or utterly "bias", ironically by people who most would admit also have a webos bias themselves. Fact is consumers have opinions and expectations be it larger screen, flash in the camera, or a level of performance, etc, and if HP wants to sell a lot of phones they are going to have to meet those needs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    No other video reviews I have seen of the Pre, show it slow or freezing up nor do I hear the reviewer complain about it doing such.
    But again his video, in fact did have a slow and freezing Veer. The fact that others didn't mention it does not mean that his pre didn't do it. And saying others didn't mention it is just an attempt to deflect the issue and ignore video evidence. What is isn't is an attempt to address the actual issue of why is that veer freezing and laggy in email. It happened. It has to be addressed. People can't just ignore it cause they don't want it to be true.

    And even if they didn't discuss lag, various reviews mention many other issues or shortcomings that this one did like, many apps not working on the veer, lack of app support in general on the platform, having to carry an adapter for a headphone jack, that there is more offered by other competition at the cheaper price points like the $49 iphone on the same, platform, lack of a flash, a poor speaker, the fake 4G moniker, and the failure for almost two years to update core programs like email. All of those are valid in my book. Pointing them out is not bias to me. I'd expect that of any review. It's totally fair game. It doesn't mean someone that likes the phone is evil or can deal with the trade offs is bad. But pointing them out isn't bias either. But there is too much fantasy going on where people only want to discuss positives but no negatives. That's not truth. That's just one sided reporting. I'd rather have both sides whether i like the outcome or not. It's truth.

    There is a saying: "The truth shall set you free but first it will **** you off." Well he made a truthful review. It just ****ed you guys off.

    Anyways thanks for allowing me to voice my opinion. Obviously you can feel free to respond. But i'm only marginally interested in how the veer does so i can't say that I'll respond back cause I'm kinda bored with it and i made my point. However, good luck to you though.
  14. #214  
    @blackmagic

    I don't have time right now to finish reading your post, but just so everyone can see:

    bias
    - 7 dictionary results
    bi·as
       [bahy-uhs] Show IPA noun, adjective, adverb, verb, bi·ased, bi·as·ing or ( especially British ) bi·assed, bi·as·sing.
    –noun
    1.
    an oblique or diagonal line of direction, especially across a woven fabric.
    2.
    a particular tendency or inclination, especially one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice.
    3.
    Statistics . a systematic as opposed to a random distortion of a statistic as a result of sampling procedure.
    EXPAND
    –adjective
    7.
    cut, set, folded, etc., diagonally: This material requires a bias cut.
    –adverb
    8.
    in a diagonal manner; obliquely; slantingly: to cut material bias.
    –verb (used with object)
    9.
    to cause partiality or favoritism in (a person); influence, especially unfairly: a tearful plea designed to bias the jury.
    10.
    Electronics . to apply a steady voltage or current to (the input of an active device).
    —Idiom
    11.
    on the bias,
    a.
    in the diagonal direction of the cloth.
    b.
    out of line; slanting.
    Use bias in a Sentence
    Search bias on the Web
    Origin:
    1520–30; < Middle French biais oblique < Old Provençal, probably < Vulgar Latin *( e ) bigassius < Greek epikársios oblique, equivalent to epi- epi- + -karsios oblique

    —Related forms
    sub·bi·as, noun
    su·per·bi·as, noun

    —Synonyms
    2. predisposition, preconception, predilection, partiality, proclivity; bent, leaning. Bias, prejudice mean a strong inclination of the mind or a preconceived opinion about something or someone. A bias may be favorable or unfavorable: bias in favor of or against an idea. Prejudice implies a preformed judgment even more unreasoning than bias, and usually implies an unfavorable opinion: prejudice against a race. 9. predispose, bend, incline, dispose.

    —Antonyms
    2. impartiality.
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  15.    #215  
    Its on!

    CDMA Pre3 filed with the FCC. I think most likely other reviewers who have not filed yet will now evaluate the Veer in the context of the HP family-small, medium, large--webOS in the package
    of your choice.

    http://forums.precentral.net/hp-pre-...plication.html

    ps. Has its own thread
  16. nyallj's Avatar
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    #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    That ignores the fact that it in fact was actually slow. And he provided you video evidence of the problem. The fact that other reviewers failed to notice does not erase the it in fact happened.
    That's not quite the case.

    He's shown evidence and you've chosen to turn a blind eye to the issue and call him bias. If you're willing to turn a blind eye to video evidence i'd say that's bias right there from the other side of the coin.
    There's another term for loading dice.

    The fact that it was purposely made small does not negate the fact that a small screen is a problem for a lot of consumers. Acting purposefully doesn't excuse something. Especially when in these very forums many have mentioned that it's "too small," where on the Palmcast the first they they said was "It's small!", It's perfectly valid to analyze, how a small screen size may negatively impact usability of a touch screen operating system reliant on doing the same thing in a much smaller surface space. You simply don't like that it's small size is viewed as a negative. That's just the flip side of those that level equally valid criticism that a random 4.3 inch droid phone would be too big.
    The phone is being marketed as the tiniest smartphone. What sense is there marking it down because the screen is small? A more objective comment could have been "Because the phone is tiny, the screen size may not live up to the expectations of those with preference for large screen real estate." That's like me giving a review of the rain and marking it down because it is wet.

    Not really sure why old phones are relevant but people are free to judge phones on the criteria of size, form factor, etc. What makes one person liking a larger screen or a different form factor anymore valid then a person liking a slider keyboard and a tiny screen? Nothing in my opinion. if if the size impacts usability i thing it has to be mentioned.
    Again, that objective comment would have covered this.

    Don't know again. Treos are ancient history. I don't see how they are relevant in this day and age, years after that phone was off the market. And i don't think until recently there's been a small screen touchscreen blackberries. But these days with blackberries consistently declining in market share and struggling to grow it's user base i don't see how even a review of a blackberry that said a small touch screen is okay is a positive. It would be nothing more the HP trying to be more like a company with declining products. But on the size thing even the ipod nano is criticized for having a screen too small. Cause the nano screen is ridiculously too small. Any device with a small screen is gonna get criticized. Its' not bias it happens to all of them.
    The Treo Pro is not ancient history. It's still being marketed to some countries, and highly relevant. If you doubt, set Palm's home page to country Brazil. Also, ALL BBs have small screens. As small as, or smaller even than the Veer. Again, market in the US for BBs may be declining, but not so, especially in my country, or in other parts of the world. And none of their users complain about the screen size.

    Sorry, but I've had major keyboard issues so I've yet to see a palm pre, pixi whatever with a keyboard that satisfies me. But every review I've seen mentions that the keyboard is small and it's a problem for people with big hands i just don't get the idea that criticizing the keyboard is somehow something others haven't done. But that too is a matter of taste. Even it's still a fact not in dispute that the keyboard is smaller then it is on larger devices like the Pre 3 or horizontal sliders and thus people with bigger hands have to be more precise with their finger presses. He can't be criticized for pointing out facts just cause they don't fit the views of those with a vested rooting interest in the phone.
    Josh on the keyboard: "HP has opted for a clickier, less resistive version than on the Pre 2 but have reduced the amount of travel and pressure needed to complete a key press. It means that you can type faster and more accurately than on the spongy keyboard of the Pre and Pre 2. That’s great, but I still had trouble the sheer tininess of this keyboard — it’s simply not very spacious, which means missed keystrokes are common. Once I got used to it, my accuracy improved, but I wouldn’t say it was ever a totally comfortable experience."
    I don't know where your argument on this is coming from, but it is certainly distorted. Most of the other reviewers found the keyboard surprisingly functional.

    I don't think anyone who likes hates, or doesn't care about the Veer ever claimed it was "perfect" but what i have heard is the sentiment that no one shall criticize the Veer. That everyone who does is somehow a long standing "hater" or utterly "bias", ironically by people who most would admit also have a webos bias themselves. Fact is consumers have opinions and expectations be it larger screen, flash in the camera, or a level of performance, etc, and if HP wants to sell a lot of phones they are going to have to meet those needs.
    In my humble opinion, for a review of a device to be credible, objections and self-opinions should be minimised at least.

    But again his video, in fact did have a slow and freezing Veer. The fact that others didn't mention it does not mean that his pre didn't do it. And saying others didn't mention it is just an attempt to deflect the issue and ignore video evidence. What is isn't is an attempt to address the actual issue of why is that veer freezing and laggy in email. It happened. It has to be addressed. People can't just ignore it cause they don't want it to be true.
    Again, you're purposely distorting what the video portrayed. At this point, even your arguments are losing credibility. Again, there is another name for loaded dice.

    And even if they didn't discuss lag, various reviews mention many other issues or shortcomings that this one did like, many apps not working on the veer, lack of app support in general on the platform, having to carry an adapter for a headphone jack, that there is more offered by other competition at the cheaper price points like the $49 iphone on the same, platform, lack of a flash, a poor speaker, the fake 4G moniker, and the failure for almost two years to update core programs like email. All of those are valid in my book. Pointing them out is not bias to me. I'd expect that of any review. It's totally fair game. It doesn't mean someone that likes the phone is evil or can deal with the trade offs is bad. But pointing them out isn't bias either. But there is too much fantasy going on where people only want to discuss positives but no negatives. That's not truth. That's just one sided reporting. I'd rather have both sides whether i like the outcome or not. It's truth.
    Again, your arguments are distorted, even twisted here. Can you quote one review that said many apps are not working on the Veer? No, but you could say that one reviewer mentioned many of the apps in the App Catalog are not compatible with the Veer. But given the probable ignorance of the workings of webOS, she didn't mention the thousands of apps compatible with the Pixi and therefore compatible with the Veer. Or the fact that the catalog continues to grow. We've argued the adapter thing enough I believe. I'm not sure the old iPhone, even at $49 dollars will be in high demand anymore. Consumer's natural habit of being chic and in style will make that a hard sell. Which is why the Veer is priced as it is. Most of the reviewers thought the sound was good, surprisingly so too, even if it 'will not blow your neighbours away'. Not sure where you got 'poor speaker' from. Lack of LED flash is a very credible argument, and IMHO, the only deal breaker for the phone. AnandTech handles the technical aspect of the 4G argument very well, you would do well to acquaint yourself with it.

    There is a saying: "The truth shall set you free but first it will **** you off." Well he made a truthful review. It just ****ed you guys off.
    That loaded dice thing really is not nice.

    Anyways thanks for allowing me to voice my opinion. Obviously you can feel free to respond. But i'm only marginally interested in how the veer does so i can't say that I'll respond back cause I'm kinda bored with it and i made my point. However, good luck to you though.
    I really didn't want to read through your post, much less answer it. But it is there, and your arguments so distorted, your bias shows. It had to be answered I think, especially since you twist everything so wrongly, and then leave with a note like I wouldn't answer again.
    NNJ
  17. #217  
    Here is another review on the Veer: H-P Veer 4G webOS Smartphone Review | Katherine Boehret | The Digital Solution | AllThingsD.

    I've most of the reviews and except for the This is my next review, they all seem to feel ok about the Veer. I thought that Anantech did a good job of coming at the review from a pure numbers standpoint and he actually said that the phone was snappy. All in all, the reviews, except for the This is my next seem to indicate that for those that want a small smartphone the Veer would certainly be a viable option.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  18.    #218  
    That WSJ (allthingsD) was an enthusiastic review, doesn't get much better, should be seen by a number of people.

    So that settles it for now--it is a matter of taste.

    Select quotes below from the review:

    "Some good things come in small packages: The Veer is loaded with the latest version of webOS, Palm’s stylish, fun, delightfully smart operating system."


    "But how small is too small? I loved the way the Veer fit perfectly in the palm of my hand in its closed position, and simple gestures let me navigate webOS using only the thumb of the same hand that held the device"

    "Typing on this little keyboard was surprisingly comfortable."

    "The HP Veer 4G is a warm-up act for the much-anticipated TouchPad tablet the company plans to bring out this summer. WebOS, with its intuitive gestures and card-stacking organizational system, seems perfectly suited to a tablet. "

    In the video attached to the review, the WSJ reviewer is equally as positive:

    HP coming out later with the Pre 3 "with the webOS that people like so much."

    This is a "great first start for HP."

    The biggest negative the reviewer had was that when she slid open the keyboard, her hand would often open an app on the screen. I wonder if a patch can be made for that.
    Last edited by bluenote; 05/10/2011 at 09:29 PM.
  19. #219  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    That WSJ (allthingsD) was an enthusiastic review, doesn't get much better, should be seen by a number of people.

    So that settles it for now--it is a matter of taste.

    Select quotes below from the review:

    "Some good things come in small packages: The Veer is loaded with the latest version of webOS, Palm’s stylish, fun, delightfully smart operating system."


    "But how small is too small? I loved the way the Veer fit perfectly in the palm of my hand in its closed position, and simple gestures let me navigate webOS using only the thumb of the same hand that held the device"

    "Typing on this little keyboard was surprisingly comfortable."

    "The HP Veer 4G is a warm-up act for the much-anticipated TouchPad tablet the company plans to bring out this summer. WebOS, with its intuitive gestures and card-stacking organizational system, seems perfectly suited to a tablet. "

    In the video attached to the review, the WSJ reviewer is equally as positive:

    HP coming out later with the Pre 3 "with the webOS that people like so much."

    This is a "great first start for HP."
    Great review. The only thing he didn't like was having to place your thumb on the screen to slide the Veer open.

    Its seems most negative reviews are either dead set on comparing the Veer to the latest superphones or they were written by reviewers with a feeling of entitlement/grudge against HP/Palm.

    Neither of those result in an unbiased review. WSJ and Anandtech seem to review the phone objectively based on the phone's intended usage. No one in their right minds would review a Toyota Prius and then rag on its lack of off-road abilities.
    Last edited by axoneill; 05/10/2011 at 09:36 PM.
  20.    #220  
    "The only thing he didn't like"

    It was a female reviewer. She called the phone "cute" in the video and loved the fact that it could hide itself in her belongings.
    I'm not saying though its a strictly male/female thing. I think your comment about wanting a "superphone" is the more telling divide. What I like is that the Veer puts a very capable phone in the hands of people who don't need a superphone but like a lot of functionality in an easy to use "intuitive" package.
    Last edited by bluenote; 05/10/2011 at 09:39 PM.

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