Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 61 to 80 of 80
  1. gbp
    gbp is offline
    gbp's Avatar
    Posts
    2,506 Posts
    Global Posts
    2,543 Global Posts
    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by spork141 View Post
    Actually gnark...im the original poster .... and the opinions you are responding to above are not just from me...they are people who agree with me.

    And to reply to your point.....Nobody has answered my question....why get a veer over a pre 2?.....is the half inch of space in your pocket more important than an almost comically small keyboard , screen, and now the adapter issue....

    Just so you know where i stand...I believe HP has clouded a lot of veer supporters good judgment...they told you this little phone was cool and powerful and you need it....and being the WebOs fans we are....have bought it......and this is what they are hoping others would do. in a few months the veer is going to go on those worst tech mistakes of 2011 lists....again this is my opinion

    SO back to my question....why the veer over pre 2?
    This is such a passionate debate. I would almost agree with you. For me, I would by Pre2 /Pre3 over the Veer. However there are folks who prefer the half inch smaller screen ( in spite of no 3.5 mm and no micro usb charging built into the phone). I let the market decide the demand for that. MY prediction is it will be a a failure compared to Pre3.
  2.    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    This is such a passionate debate. I would almost agree with you. For me, I would by Pre2 /Pre3 over the Veer. However there are folks who prefer the half inch smaller screen ( in spite of no 3.5 mm and no micro usb charging built into the phone). I let the market decide the demand for that. MY prediction is it will be a a failure compared to Pre3.
    Thanks for the comments....on a side note...i am on the edge of my seat waiting for Pre 3...i think based on what I have read and watched in videos..it will be the perfect phone for me....I LOVE my pre plus but typing on it with my large thumbs is just barley passable and often the screen does not cut it for web viewing.....

    THe pre3 might be a tad on the large side, but i doubt id rather have it any other way.

    Now, we just need those big 12 apps and we should be ready to roll
  3. #63  
    Honestly, if the adapter is USB/3.5mm, all-in-one... then I see less of a problem with the device. Most of my beef came down not being able to use them at the same time, and nobody seemed to be aware of that.

    Here's the deal, tho.

    I actually prefer the Pixi's screen to the Pre's screen. It just seems to be the right ratio. Going back to the Pre, the screen looks too elongated and it's SLOWER because of those extra pixels.

    As much as I'd like the Pre3, I just don't see it happening for some reason. I've only seen a few videos of the phones, and one set I remember was Topolsky playing with the Veer & Pre 3. The Veer was ridiculously fast, whereas the Pre 3 seemed to have barely any increase in speed over a Pixi, even (and might have even been slower than my Pixi!!).

    I would take the Veer due to its size, which makes it "ridiculously" fast.
    I'd almost even take the Veer over a Pre 3, just because I've seen my phone choice dismissed because it started with "Pre-" (... after thinking about Pre2). "PSHAW", they say. These same people look at the Pixi and go.. "OOOH. AHHH. What is THAT?" I'm afraid to tell them the name of that phone as well, but they're far more impressed by the sexiness of th Pixi than the pebbly Pre.

    All things considered, I really just want a Pixi with double the ram. Why is that so hard?

    Reasons I prefer the Pixi over all the rest...
    - PERFECT design. LOVE the way the cases snap on. Can still replace the battery!
    - ALL-INCLUSIVE device. No need for attachments to "universal" jacks. :gross_nasty_face: Peace of mind to plug ANY headphones and ANY charger ANY time.
    - I would *not* hesitate to throw this phone at somebody's face as a defense strategy... and just about had to do that with my 755p while walking thru New Orleans a couple years back. (AKA: Crime deterrence --> )

    Why make 3 different devices that ALL suck at something or another when compared to the others, tho?? I don't understand this.

    The Pre3 sucks at SPEED when compared to the Veer.
    The Pre2 sucks at SPEED when compared to the Veer/Pre3
    The Veer sucks at "features" (esp. built-in ones) when compared to the Pre2/Pre3.

    Simply add twice the RAM to the Pixi and I'd gobble it up like everybody else would. Who cares about the compass? Not me and anybody considering a Pre2/Veer!!

    HPalm just "can't-do-right". That should be their new nickname. When they put people in a position that they're saying, there's not ONE phone that has ALL that speed & ALL those features... THEY'RE PUTTING PEOPLE **OFF**!

    If you're not gonna do something right, then just don't do it at all. That was Palm's fault with the Pre and the Pixi (despite their "ideal" designs), and it looks like HP is going to keep following in their footsteps. All they needed to do was IMPROVE the internals of those two phones, but instead, they just created MORE problems and thought they were acceptable. Me no comprendo.
  4.    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    Honestly, if the adapter is USB/3.5mm, all-in-one... then I see less of a problem with the device. Most of my beef came down not being able to use them at the same time, and nobody seemed to be aware of that.

    Here's the deal, tho.

    I actually prefer the Pixi's screen to the Pre's screen. It just seems to be the right ratio. Going back to the Pre, the screen looks too elongated and it's SLOWER because of those extra pixels.

    As much as I'd like the Pre3, I just don't see it happening for some reason. I've only seen a few videos of the phones, and one set I remember was Topolsky playing with the Veer & Pre 3. The Veer was ridiculously fast, whereas the Pre 3 seemed to have barely any increase in speed over a Pixi, even (and might have even been slower than my Pixi!!).

    I would take the Veer due to its size, which makes it "ridiculously" fast.
    I'd almost even take the Veer over a Pre 3, just because I've seen my phone choice dismissed because it started with "Pre-" (... after thinking about Pre2). "PSHAW", they say. These same people look at the Pixi and go.. "OOOH. AHHH. What is THAT?" I'm afraid to tell them the name of that phone as well, but they're far more impressed by the sexiness of th Pixi than the pebbly Pre.

    All things considered, I really just want a Pixi with double the ram. Why is that so hard?

    Reasons I prefer the Pixi over all the rest...
    - PERFECT design. LOVE the way the cases snap on. Can still replace the battery!
    - ALL-INCLUSIVE device. No need for attachments to "universal" jacks. :gross_nasty_face: Peace of mind to plug ANY headphones and ANY charger ANY time.
    - I would *not* hesitate to throw this phone at somebody's face as a defense strategy... and just about had to do that with my 755p while walking thru New Orleans a couple years back. (AKA: Crime deterrence --> )

    Why make 3 different devices that ALL suck at something or another when compared to the others, tho?? I don't understand this.

    The Pre3 sucks at SPEED when compared to the Veer.
    The Pre2 sucks at SPEED when compared to the Veer/Pre3
    The Veer sucks at "features" (esp. built-in ones) when compared to the Pre2/Pre3.

    Simply add twice the RAM to the Pixi and I'd gobble it up like everybody else would. Who cares about the compass? Not me and anybody considering a Pre2/Veer!!

    HPalm just "can't-do-right". That should be their new nickname. When they put people in a position that they're saying, there's not ONE phone that has ALL that speed & ALL those features... THEY'RE PUTTING PEOPLE **OFF**!

    If you're not gonna do something right, then just don't do it at all. That was Palm's fault with the Pre and the Pixi (despite their "ideal" designs), and it looks like HP is going to keep following in their footsteps. All they needed to do was IMPROVE the internals of those two phones, but instead, they just created MORE problems and thought they were acceptable. Me no comprendo.
    Ill meet you half way here....the Pixi does have some advantages over the Pre and the Veer form factors....the fact that the keyboard is not cramped into such a small tray allowed your fingers more room to move...plus the fact that the phone had more plastic allowed your fingers to curl underneath better than the pre...overall you are able to adapt to the smaller keyboard....plus its a form factor many are used to....and a more powerful pixi makes more sense to me than a Veer

    But...i cant get on board with saying the veer is going to be more powerful.....the Pre 3 processor is almost twice as powerful, and although the veer has less pixels to push in its tiny screen, you will need to refresh more data with the veer. The pre 3 will ingest more data in each page load and more can be displayed...where as the veer will need to constantly refresh data as you thumb down each line of text. In the end you end up waiting more.

    Also add on top that i felt the veer looked more finished at the think beyond event...i assuming its software was a bit more fine tuned.
  5. #65  
    I sincerely doubt the Pre 3 will be slow. Everybody who's ever held one is saying the thing is screamingly fast. Sometimes videos can be deceiving. I wouldn't be making up my mind about why HP has failed until I've actually held a Veer and a Pre 3. 1.4 GHz is plenty horsepower to push 800x480.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by spork141 View Post
    But...i cant get on board with saying the veer is going to be more powerful.....the Pre 3 processor is almost twice as powerful, and although the veer has less pixels to push in its tiny screen, you will need to refresh more data with the veer. The pre 3 will ingest more data in each page load and more can be displayed...where as the veer will need to constantly refresh data as you thumb down each line of text. In the end you end up waiting more.
    All very true.

    But I think more people buy into the visible EFFECT of speed (i.e. -loading apps) than overall "compiling time" or greater MOGOBIPS or petaflops or tetracycles or anything of the sort.

    The Centro sold way more than the Treo because (a) it was smaller, (b) the 5-way navigation was VERy nice, & (c) the thing was ZOOMING compared to the white-flashing Treo.

    The Centro absolutely sucked when it came to viewing large webpages because of (a) memory issues.

    Take your pick, they both get the job done... but day-in and day-out, I'd prefer the Centro. It would suck to need to look at a large webpage and have it FREEZE, but I'd much rather prefer that than white flashes when changing between apps. I absolutely HATE the flashing app logos, because it just shows how much of a p-i-g webOS is. The Veer seems to be the only way to get rid of those flashing logos. I highly doubt that the Pre 3 will EVER load anything as quickly as the Veer. Sure you can re-compile your kernel on the Pre 3 quicker, but 99.999% of people won't being using their phone to do such tasks. They want the phone app to open instantaneously, for example.

    That "torquiness" of a smartphone is the most important feature, behind stability & security, of course.

    Who am I kidding!! I'll likely end up owning every Palm phone that comes to Sprint and then some... but I am really starting to hope that Sprint gets SOMETHING SOON!!
  7.    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    All very true.

    But I think more people buy into the visible EFFECT of speed (i.e. -loading apps) than overall "compiling time" or greater MOGOBIPS or petaflops or tetracycles or anything of the sort.

    The Centro sold way more than the Treo because (a) it was smaller, (b) the 5-way navigation was VERy nice, & (c) the thing was ZOOMING compared to the white-flashing Treo.

    The Centro absolutely sucked when it came to viewing large webpages because of (a) memory issues.

    Take your pick, they both get the job done... but day-in and day-out, I'd prefer the Centro. It would suck to need to look at a large webpage and have it FREEZE, but I'd much rather prefer that than white flashes when changing between apps. I absolutely HATE the flashing app logos, because it just shows how much of a p-i-g webOS is. The Veer seems to be the only way to get rid of those flashing logos. I highly doubt that the Pre 3 will EVER load anything as quickly as the Veer. Sure you can re-compile your kernel on the Pre 3 quicker, but 99.999% of people won't being using their phone to do such tasks. They want the phone app to open instantaneously, for example.

    That "torquiness" of a smartphone is the most important feature, behind stability & security, of course.

    Who am I kidding!! I'll likely end up owning every Palm phone that comes to Sprint and then some... but I am really starting to hope that Sprint gets SOMETHING SOON!!
    Im with you on the flashing logos...i understand why they are there....but its a kinda dated look for a still slick OS...

    If the Pre 3 launches on Verizon only with no Sprint in sight would you jump ship? Im a VZ customer on a pretty Sprint dominated site. Only reason Im so loyal to them is because I worked for them for ten years and they paid for my education. So I kind of feel like I owe it to them.

    But i couldn't imagine being a Sprint customer waiting for a Palm device. They have given almost no indication they have any plans to carry them again. This wait must be extra brutal for sprint customers.
  8. #68  
    You show me where I can get a Pre/Pixi on an unlimited everything plan for $40/mo, and I'll consider jumping carrier ships.

    Until then... I'm Sprint4Life.



    If Sprint doesn't get anything, then I'll just do the FrankenPre2 on Sprint... but I likely won't do that, either. I'll just keep waiting and waiting and waiting...

    Which reminds me... I've got this upgrade credit I should get rid of.
  9. #69  
    I'm thinking about buying a veer...
    Why?
    I watched myself using my old Pre and if I read s.th. I only take a look at the upper 2/3 of the display. So I will give the Veer a chance.
    That about you people? What is your experience (not in landscape mode)?
    I use the lower third more for touch-scrolling.
    If it is lighter, smaller and if the battery lasts longer, I'll take it. And if I'm not satisfied I give the phone my girlfriend and go for the Pre3.

    Luke
  10. #70  
    The thing that slightly annoyed me when using a Pixi was reading webpages in landscape mode ... there wasn't a big enough difference with portrait mode to make it worthwhile. Whereas with the Pre, it makes everything easier to read.

    So I assume that'll be the same with the Veer.
    Check out Movie Diary.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by spork141 View Post
    SO back to my question....why the veer over pre 2?
    i (and others) ve answered the questions many times in this thread. the question in fact is very personal, individual, subjective. as your opinion is too. so by gathering people that share your opinion ("veer is a product fail that will hurt us all") you will still not be able to create objectiveness upon the topic.

    so what i try to tell you (even if you don t wanna hear it and will not count it as an "answer") is that i have a different opinion. and on top of my opinion of the veer i claim that simply by me existing with my subjective taste there is an objective reason to build that damned thing for hp and to be supported by the community. still i am not saying that this "objective reason" will make the thing an overall success for palm, hp and the community, but it is definitely worth finding out.

    so and just because you seem to consider people that understand the veer as a product (and probably even like it or even buy it for their own reasons) that they must have "missed" something or probably they are irrational (not naming them stupid) or are tricked into it by hp promoting the veer, again i can outline why i come to the final conclusion for myself: yes sell me the veer.

    some of the killer disadvantages you bring up on the veer are minor tradeoffs for me at its worst: screen resolution, keyboard size, battery.

    some of the killer disadvantages you bring up on the veer are advantages for me: screen size, magnetic jack.

    one of the killer disadvantages you bring up on the veer are the major reason for me to get it over the pre3/pre2: the device size.

    i dont expect you to accept this to be *the* answer, but you may consider it as *one* answer being not so "wrong" at all probably being *one* answer.

    prefering one device over the other is one thing (and thats what we should or could discuss alone for being entertained if we dont have other reasons), but requesting abortion of one device over another by claiming there are objective reasons that point 100% in that direction is another thing and maybe its not so wise in the end and i ask myself what benefit you have from doing so.

    i prefer the veer but please keep selling the pre2 (and tons of other devices including pre3 and pixi2/3) because i might want one too some day. and i most likely already had bought one if they only sold it with a qwertz layout.
  12.    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by gnark View Post
    i (and others) ve answered the questions many times in this thread. the question in fact is very personal, individual, subjective. as your opinion is too. so by gathering people that share your opinion ("veer is a product fail that will hurt us all") you will still not be able to create objectiveness upon the topic.

    Gnark, believe me I understand what you are saying. It seems that you want to paint me as some kind of hard-head with no regard or respect for anyone else's needs or options. That im not open minded or fair.

    This couldn't be further from the case however. I understand that "my way" isnt law and that others have opinions also. That is the exact reason I come here. Because it allows me to exchange ideas and opinions with others who have opinions too. If the answer is always "We all have different opinions, why bother talking" then why bother coming here?

    Back to the point, no, I dont understand why anyone would call a 2.6 inch screen or a magnetic adapter advantages. But you have made your point clear, that they are for you. So at this point...I guess were just going to have to see how your holding up with it in a few months. Hopefully by then ill be able to sneak a peak of one in the store and maybe it'll change my mind. Who knows...but until then, it is "my opinion" that HPs resources would be better spent elsewhere.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by spork141 View Post
    Gnark, believe me I understand what you are saying. It seems that you want to paint me as some kind of hard-head with no regard or respect for anyone else's needs or options. That im not open minded or fair.
    oki sorry then, officially and from the bottom of my veered heart: i got you wrong and i herewith state that i was wrong creating that image of you.

    i only got kind of emotionally struck when i got the feeling that i tried to answer your questions as good as i could and then felt like it wasnt heared at all.

    i respect your point of view and can really understand it, even from the technical point of view. i think the main thing i try to make heared is:

    you will most probably buy a pre2 or pre3.
    i will most probably buy a veer.

    and this is good. so good.

    this is the main important benefit from it: hp will widen their user base just by introducing new and different form factor and gadget experiences.

    even if they ll probably lose money on it. at least there ll be a few more people that will receive their own webos experience.

    my thinking is that hps strategy here is: android managed to pull market share by spamming the market with form factors which was at least not a bad idea, so lets aim to satisfy a certain spectrum too, probably only and exclusively for the sake of that spectrum.

    the fact that i (let it be technically irrationally) love and will buy it proves that they are probably not so wrong.
  14.    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by gnark View Post
    oki sorry then, officially and from the bottom of my veered heart: i got you wrong and i herewith state that i was wrong creating that image of you.
    No Problem Gnark...i know its hard to tell from these forums and I appreciate the comments.

    And ill admit that some of my issues with the veer have a little less to do with the form factor ...but part to do with my anxiousness about this whole HP/Palm merger and its first go.

    Android has an enormous amount of momentum and I wish HP could act quicker and bring more headliner devices to the game. So naturally when i see the Veer with its limited market potential....im frowning.

    Take this new keyboard-less slate device. Interesting sure..lack of keyboard stinks...but its a form factor the public demands right now and I accept it for that...it would bring more people to webos and that means HP will invest more to make it a viable platform for all my hopes and dreams....i guess thats selfish....but its the truth....I want to see webos succeed....we all do.

    Anyway, good debate .... and no harm done on either side i hope. Lets all just be happy were webos fans and aren't stuck with Android....that we could all get behind im sure.....just joking.............not really
  15. #75  
    I would say, there is no point to discuss this more than give a short opinion without trying the veer (so hopefully in may)

    @spork
    sry, but I dont think you are that "open minded or fair"

    Because you stay with:
    "Back to the point, no, I dont understand why anyone would call a 2.6 inch screen or a magnetic adapter advantages. "
    It is one point to have a different opinion or to disagree, but you HAVE to understand different points of views to discuss.
    Also:
    "So naturally when i see the Veer with its limited market potential....im frowning." From your point of view it has a limited market potential, but the future will show. I think in the normal form factor of Pre/Iphone you have enough competitors, but here you have s.th. different.


    I see the advantages in both: "a 2.6 inch screen or a magnetic adapter" simply because of the size. And I see in touchpad AND Veer a good combination. Why I need to have to carry 2 high resolution devices? If I'm on the road or office and want to do some real work or HiRes entertainment I'lltake my touchpad with me. Otherwise Veer is enough...

    I appreciate that you try to be objective but now it seems that we have a debate without anyone having experience with that specific device.
    Don't get me wrong. I know forums are for discussing, but that is too much waste of energy here
  16.    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukeda View Post
    @spork
    sry, but I dont think you are that "open minded or fair"

    Lukeda,....your point seems to be that im not open minded because I dont have any inside info or stats on what market there are for these things....so by saying theses no market...thats my opinion and because i have an opinion...and i state it.....thats not open minded

    I base my opinions on being a huge tech fan for the past decade...i base my opinion on the hundreds of reviews i have read...i base my opinions on my experience as a system analyst and a web developer.....I like to think that i am qualified to....at least.... have an opinion on things.

    Do you like sports? Are you considered closed minded because you think your team didn't play a game right or make the right plays? Are you the coach? do you know all the factors behind the play decisions? But i think it would be a little stretch to assume your close minded to think the team made a bad call!

    If i agreed with you that there WAS a market for the Veer... would i also be considered close minded?....im sure you'd agree and wed have a happy conversation....but because i disagree with you...im close minded and not fair?

    If this is too much work, then why post? I think this is good and healthy debate...thats why I am here....and to be honest...its good for the WebOs community....because without this what else is there to do but be miserable and wait for the new products?
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukeda View Post
    It is one point to have a different opinion or to disagree, but you HAVE to understand different points of views to discuss.
    well as long as spork respects the points of view he asked for himself, at least i am satisfied now
  18. #78  
    Maybe I didn't found the right words. I just wanted to say, that you have to give a chance and not to talk it to death before it is even out. So be more open minded for that
    It is only that I would like t this way: We don't know exactly if there is a market for. And let's hope the people from HP/Palm don't say: nobody will buy it and there is no market for it, but let's do it anyway.

    So all we can do is do say, what specs are fine for us and which not... and how it appeals us.
  19.    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukeda View Post
    Maybe I didn't found the right words. I just wanted to say, that you have to give a chance and not to talk it to death before it is even out. So be more open minded for that
    It is only that I would like t this way: We don't know exactly if there is a market for. And let's hope the people from HP/Palm don't say: nobody will buy it and there is no market for it, but let's do it anyway.

    So all we can do is do say, what specs are fine for us and which not... and how it appeals us.
    Lukeda, i do want to add that this post has been carried on by many commenter's aside from me (some support my thoughts, more don't).....each time I think its over there are 4 more posts.

    I understand that people have strong opinions, as do I...and i think its good for us to come here and let them out....so if this post goes on for a month (i hope it doesn't)....then great...before we know it well have these new products and well start new debates about how the Pre 4 has to fix things etc etc....

    I mean its better than sitting here reading articles on how to properly slide out the pre keyboard ~ Sorry Pre Central but I saw an opening and I took it
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukeda View Post
    Maybe I didn't found the right words. I just wanted to say, that you have to give a chance and not to talk it to death before it is even out. So be more open minded for that
    It is only that I would like t this way: We don't know exactly if there is a market for. And let's hope the people from HP/Palm don't say: nobody will buy it and there is no market for it, but let's do it anyway.
    Perhaps this is why HP/Palm shouldn't have announced these phones TWO MONTHS AGO, when they won't even be out for AT LEAST **ANOTHER** MONTH INTO THE FUTURE!!

    Oh, I forgot. We had to "save" iPhone4 users on VZ from making such a terrible choice. Silly, silly strategy, HP/Palm.
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions