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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Possibly, but to the OP's original statement, if Apple had released a device identical to the Veer, I don't think anyone would doubt that it would sell like crazy.
    Agreed. And it's unfortunate that that hypothetical blow-out success will almost certainly not befall HP with the Veer. But if they are successful in cultivating a huge webOS userbase over the next few years, they might well find themselves in an Apple-like position someday.

    Then everyone else will have someone new to be jealous of.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    What's pertinent is the "why"?

    it's not just because it would be an Apple device, but because most people realized Apple doesn't deliver crappy products that are missing promised features.

    Whereas another manufacturer's customers may wait to read reviews, see what their friends think, get their hands on one personally, see what the customer service issues are, etc.
    Exactly right. I will test-drive the Veer myself, read every review on the internet, and wait at least 3 weeks for bugs to show themselves, before I even think about recommending it to someone who trusts my opinion. Unfortunately, that's the state of webOS right now.

    By contrast, if this were an Apple product, I'd be confident recommending it based on pre-release exposure alone (with a caveat or two). Once again, this goes to the power of precedent and reputation.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    I'd agree that that's a possibility, but the problem is that I can't call to mind more than a handful of examples of Apple delivering something that could be considered "crap," or even mediocre. Of course, examples of iterative improvements that failed to wow the tech crowd -like the iPhone 3Gs, Apple TV, iPad2 countless MacBook refreshes- could be called "mediocre" in that they're not ground-breaking, but they still offer a superior experience, by and large, than most (all, in the case of iPad) of their contemporaries.

    It would be my argument that loyalty is often stupidity, but is also often the prize earned by a company that has delivered what it promised to its customers.
    It's rather subjective and based a lot on POV. My experience with Apple products as always been mediocre at best. There "experience" has never been all that great compared to their cost and often competitors just offer more options to better tailor an "experience". Apple applies a "one size fits all" approach and I just have never seen that as being more than mediocre experience.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    I would also add that brand loyalty has a benefit for the user: more seamless integration between products belonging to the same eco-system. One of the reasons I am waiting for the TP rather than getting an ipad2 now is that I want to make sure my phone and pad work as flawlessly as possible.
    That is understandable, and is also a mechanism by which brands foster loyalty. But it is also something that I feel should be avoided. While I have purchased a handful of apps through the WebOS app store, I will not be making any large purchases, because I refuse to be tied to the WebOS ecosystem. I would much rather have an ecosystem that is multi-platform than be tied to any one brand of hardware or software. Opera is making steps in that direction with the multi-platform Opera App Market, but no one is quite there yet. Until then, I make do by ensuring that whatever I buy has most of the capabilities I need built-in to the device. Most smartphones are able to handle Exchange synchronization (and therefore Google Apps synchronization), which is #1 on my list, so thankfully I have quite a few choices to choose from.

    I do not have an iTunes account and refuse to invest in one for this reason. Any MP3s I buy come DRM-free, mostly from Amazon.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    It's rather subjective and based a lot on POV. My experience with Apple products as always been mediocre at best. There "experience" has never been all that great compared to their cost and often competitors just offer more options to better tailor an "experience". Apple applies a "one size fits all" approach and I just have never seen that as being more than mediocre experience.
    But that speaks more to your expectations (and budget) than to the actual product.

    Which is completely valid, but totally missing the point: that for people who don't have your expectations for customization (which in many circles is just plain confusing, overwhelming and too much work) and don't mind buying a BMW over a Kia.

    If you were to say it was a mediocre experience based on your needs and on your budget, I'd back you up.

    If you were to say, however, it was a mediocre experience based on what Apple has promised and delivered, I'd take issue with that. And that is where they get their loyalty from.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    Exactly right. I will test-drive the Veer myself, read every review on the internet, and wait at least 3 weeks for bugs to show themselves, before I even think about recommending it to someone who trusts my opinion. Unfortunately, that's the state of webOS right now.

    By contrast, if this were an Apple product, I'd be confident recommending it based on pre-release exposure alone (with a caveat or two). Once again, this goes to the power of precedent and reputation.
    I wouldn't be confident recommending it. Apples been starting to tarnish with QA issues recently on pretty much every product line. I think the only product line that hasn't had a QA issue recently has been the iPods.

    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    But that speaks more to your expectations (and budget) than to the actual product.

    Which is completely valid, but totally missing the point: that for people who don't have your expectations for customization (which in many circles is just plain confusing, overwhelming and too much work) and don't mind buying a BMW over a Kia.

    If you were to say it was a mediocre experience based on your needs and on your budget, I'd back you up.

    If you were to say, however, it was a mediocre experience based on what Apple has promised and delivered, I'd take issue with that. And that is where they get their loyalty from.
    Well then you'd have to take issue with it because I've rarely seen Apple's claims live up to real world experience. Even when equalizing budget in the equation you can still find better at equal cost in many cases.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    I wouldn't be confident recommending it. Apples been starting to tarnish with QA issues recently on pretty much every product line. I think the only product line that hasn't had a QA issue recently has been the iPods.
    I'll grant you that their QA isn't perfect, but I'd argue that QA failures on their part are nowhere near as grievous as other product lines, and their customer service (when you have an issue) is also better. Relating to the topic of this thread, I'd feel more confident recommending an iPhone 3Gs to a budget-conscious phone shopper over, say, a Pre2.


    Well then you'd have to take issue with it because I've rarely seen Apple's claims live up to real world experience. Even when equalizing budget in the equation you can still find better at equal cost in many cases.
    "Better" is, once again, subjective. For the same or lesser price, you can certainly find a fully-loaded Win7 machine with awesome specs and more features than an equivalent Mac, or a tricked-out dual-core Android phone that bests an iPhone4 on the spec sheet, but whether the experience you'll get will be "better" or "worse" depends on your expectations and priorities. An increasing percentage of buyers would (and do) choose Apple products in such situations.
  8. #28  
    There's no doubt that anything that Apple puts out (for the most part anyway) receives universal praise and a throng of millions of buyers. The question is not whether or not the Veer would be more popular with an Apple logo, it's whether Apple would release a product that is like the Veer.

    The fact is that Apple would not put out a Veer like phone, so the point is moot.

    I don't think the Veer has a spot in the grand scheme of things, only because people are expecting "more".
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post

    Well then you'd have to take issue with it because I've rarely seen Apple's claims live up to real world experience. Even when equalizing budget in the equation you can still find better at equal cost in many cases.
    I'd be interested in any example of that, that was a comparison of what Apple promised (not the rumor mill, but Apple) versus what they delivered.
  10. #30  
    You had me up until the last statement. The Veer is not a Pixi replacement. I currently own and use a Pixi, and while I do think the Veer is a cool concept, I will not own a slider phone. I don't think there has been a poll, but I suspect most Pixi owners are not looking to jump to the Veer for the same or similar reasons. If HP put out another device with the same form factor as the Pixi, that's what I would possibly go to. But if I were to replace my Sprint Pixi today, it would be with another Sprint Pixi. If Sprint gets an Android or Windows Phone with the keyboard/bar form factor, then I might abandon WebOS for that. But right now the Pixi is the only choice, neglecting BB, which as far as I am concerned is a defunct OS.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  11. #31  
    I really do think the Veer is a good secondary phone. I'm just not sure if anyone really wants a secondary smartphone.
  12. #32  
    Apple would never make something that looks like the veer. First it would have a head phone jack that doesn't need an adapter. The material it's made of would be different. it would look different. And if the veer was made by apple it would have ios and the entire apple app catalog backing it which is the biggest selling point. A veer that interfaces with itunes and has all the apple catalog is a very different product. The software is much more important then the hardware. It would still be tiny, a slider, and i still wouldn't want it though.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 03/21/2011 at 05:47 PM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Let's reverse this though. Would the HP iphone 4 be successful? Along with the vast number of webOS apps, people would get in lines right? Remember this is an "iphone 4" that's running webOS. No facetime app. No itunes. No airplay. Etc. Just a quiet hush hush release on one foreign carrier.
    yep. and without all that stuff you've mentioned pretty much none of apples commercials would work. Nothing related to itunes. Nothing showing ibooks turning pages, nothing highlighting that you can now buy the beatles on your phone, (not that i care), no facetime commerical, no "ipod inside." Switch the O.S. you switch the ecosystem and it's a different phone. Not only that, just if you just had webos on an iphone you'd have no virutual keyboard on a phone with no physical keyboard which could be an issue. lol.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    it's not just because it would be an Apple device, but because most people realized Apple doesn't deliver crappy products that are missing promised features.
    Iphone 1 - plagued with dead fields on touchscreens. Solution: HOMEBREW screen calibration.
    Iphone 3G and 3GS - radio overheating, and Infenion is to blame, and not Apple. Poor voice reception with 3G enabled and lots of dropped calls in Euro countries. Phonebook contacts matching possible only if numbers are stored with country prefix - Solution: HOMEBREW patch.
    Iphone 4, antenagate (overblown because it was always there, Apple simply do not know to handle 3G), proximity sensor not functioning ok, so many cheek presses on exposed dial pad.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    Iphone 4, antenagate (overblown because it was always there, Apple simply do not know to handle 3G)
    It was overblown because most phones exhibit similar reception problems if held in a certain way, not because "Apple simply do not know to handle 3G." I was causing calls to drop by death-gripping the antennas of Nextel i830s in 2004.
  16. #36  
    "Well, they did it too!" is not an excuse. Just ask your mother.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    I disagree with you on several points.

    Compare that HP.... They will have fans waiting to buy IN SPITE of them never hitting their deadlines or delivering a substandard product.
    and your point is? webOS fans are loyal despite the crap they have to go through?

    generally speaking, webOS fans are just as loyal if not more loyal than Apple fans. case in point, HP have hardly delivered on any of their promises so far yet there are STILL users such as myself who cannot wait to get their hands on the new hardware. to me that is not stupidity, but good old fashioned loyalty and a testament to the greatness of webOS.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by jetsetter883 View Post
    to me that is not stupidity, but good old fashioned loyalty and a testament to the greatness of webOS.
    .. and proof that, for some folks, unfinished webOS is better than well polished IOS.
    Last edited by chalx; 03/23/2011 at 05:37 PM.
  19. #39  
    Okay, so we've considered it from every angle....
    Now that that's settled.
    <closed>
    Just call me Berd.
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