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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    OK, you didn't say "force", but you did call it a "tactic", I drew my own inference:

    Back to the Treo of the time though, it wasn't Palm ignoring what people "wanted" - they were doing something relatively new to a phones - adding music capabilities. In this case, phone was the bigger focus, music secondary (which is why it came with a single bud headset).

    Apple was turning their music player (which already had a standard) into a phone. The phone was secondary.
    See that's the thing, you're thinking in terms of primary and secondary roles, which is exactly what Palm and every other smartphone maker did. Apple wasn't thinking in those terms. They simply made a full-spectrum convergence device. They set out to make a phone and incorporated all media abilities into it as well as gaming. The gaming side of it took off so well that it caught Sony off guard.
  2. #142  
    Time to move the iPhone vs Treo stuff over here so this thread can stay on topic:

    http://forums.precentral.net/cross-p...icial+apple+hp
  3. #143  
    Or people that dismiss them just want to be Palm apologists. Yet these arguments can go all the way back to the original Pre (as you and I know) and a simple decision to not go with removable storage among other Treo niceties that didn't carry over. And for another generation they continue that pattern and don't even up the ante of the onboard to current levels compared to the competition, namely Apple who they seem to want to emulate in so many ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The "that's not standard" comments just indicate people (most of which never intended on buying one anyway) just want to find something to complain about.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  4. #144  
    in the car with a clean install where the length is fixed? Unless you're some shmo who doesn't care how clean the dash looks and has cords hanging everywhere. That is half the reason of using the touchstone. In that case you might as well just run a second microUSB cord so you can plug in every time you want to use your phone and keep it charging. And why would I want to do two things for mounting when I can use a simple cradle and microUSB cable. Especially when you have to rig something to have the touchstone fixed to any sort of dash mount. I had it mounted. It was inconvenient. I went back to tried and true. Outside of looking kinda neat, it was just as simple to plug a cable in and sit it in the holder.
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You keep saying this - it's really a simple two step process:
    1. Unplug power adaptor from Touchstone
    2. Plug power adaptor to phone
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    in the car with a clean install where the length is fixed? Unless you're some shmo who doesn't care how clean the dash looks and has cords hanging everywhere..
    I guess I don't understand. The whole concept you're getting at. If you don't have a Touchstone, would you have a cable hanging around? If you didn't, would it just be tucked away somewhere? If you installed the TS with cables tucked away, can you not just keep same cable handy just in case you need to charge and talk at the same time?

    BTW, when I'm in the car, I don't have a touchstone, I use a charger. But, if I have to talk while charging, and don't have a BT, I put it on speakerphone. I suspect that's what most of the folks that have a nice neat charger do if they need to charge and talk at the same time, with no headset handy.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a TS solution is for everyone. I don't even believe this phone is for everyone (though my wife is already eyeing one, I don't want something that small); nor do I think this phone was meant to be for everyone.

    I just think some folks are looking a little to hard for reasons it won't be a phone for anyone.
  6. libray's Avatar
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    #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't get it. The Pixi wasn't really an upgrade path from the Treo, except in name. The Pre 3, though larger than the Pixi, will be smaller than the Treo was. Closed, the Pre 3 will actually be smaller (though definitely thicker) than the Pixi.
    Te Pixi is a more business-like device. I don't see many people in meetings who are taking out their smartphones and sliding them open to use. Yes, we probably should be paying attention to the topic at hand, but in a way that one hand device style, that blackberry continued for so long also, was more "handy" and less stressful to use in those situations.

    In terms of the Pre being the new flagship and a "perceived" upgrade path for Treo, maybe Palm did think this. But, in terms of upgraded feature sets, the Pixi had everything I needed to pry my 755P from my hands.

    1 to 1:
    - built-in keyboard slab (but smaller ... +) I thought "candy-bars" were less wide
    - ssh (using terminal)

    Upgraded or better:
    - exchange sync
    - calendar
    - better browser
    - standard microUSB for charging and data connection!!!
    - 3.5 mm jack built in
    - ram
    - built-in storage

    Downgrade:
    - To-do
    - backups ( I used tealback)
    - no sd card

    Indifferent?:
    Grafitti hacks?

    The new device could be read and written to via the USB cable, so loosing the sd card was not that big of a deal. All the other upgraded features though makes the Pixi an upgrade to the Treo. Let's not forget the biggest upgrade; WebOS.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    in the car with a clean install where the length is fixed? Unless you're some shmo who doesn't care how clean the dash looks and has cords hanging everywhere. That is half the reason of using the touchstone. In that case you might as well just run a second microUSB cord so you can plug in every time you want to use your phone and keep it charging. And why would I want to do two things for mounting when I can use a simple cradle and microUSB cable. Especially when you have to rig something to have the touchstone fixed to any sort of dash mount. I had it mounted. It was inconvenient. I went back to tried and true. Outside of looking kinda neat, it was just as simple to plug a cable in and sit it in the holder.
    I have had a TS charger in my car for over a year and half now so I feel I have some experience of this subject. Because my phone is always on the charger, it is always fully charged. Biggest convenience that I have ever have added is the TS charger in my car. Also I always use BT headsets.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by libray View Post
    Te Pixi is a more business-like device. I don't see many people in meetings who are taking out their smartphones and sliding them open to use.
    Well, recently we've seen a lot more people sliding phones open, especially since the BlackBerry Torch came out. Most BB users I know drooled over the form factor and got one as soon as it was available.
  9. #149  
    I have my cable run from behind the dash under the carpet. when it's docked the cord is in the seam of the carpet. It's a straight cord so it lays nice with an angled end so it runs behind the phone instead of sticking straight out. The way I have to angle the touchstone it's just not convenient to have it plugged in with access to plugging and unplugging. Besides, why would I want to unplug from the TS and plug into the phone when I can take two seconds and just plug in when I get into the car?

    And use the phone doesn't mean make a call. It means use it. Email, text, surf and so on. So why would I jimmy rig a TS and deal with the unplugging and plugging when I can just plug getting into the car and unplug getting out. It's just simple, and it works. I stopped using the TS at home except in the LR because on the nightstand you can't see the phone unless you sit up in bed. Outside of a desk, the TS on its own is a badly designed product and there was nothing developed to make it more useful in two years. I couldn't even get ProClip to design something around it or create it's own charging cradle based on the tech. Not enough sales to bother.

    I just think you stick to tried and true and sell some phones before you start mixing things up. We already sat through the Pre being too small to fit a microSD card (that was one of the "official" answers), not to mention overthinking the whole curved slider design partially resulting in that crap keyboard. Now they make this phone too small to put a headphone jack and microUSB port on it. Trying to reinvent the wheel when you have a hard time selling the cars just doesn't make sense to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I guess I don't understand. The whole concept you're getting at. If you don't have a Touchstone, would you have a cable hanging around? If you didn't, would it just be tucked away somewhere? If you installed the TS with cables tucked away, can you not just keep same cable handy just in case you need to charge and talk at the same time?

    BTW, when I'm in the car, I don't have a touchstone, I use a charger. But, if I have to talk while charging, and don't have a BT, I put it on speakerphone. I suspect that's what most of the folks that have a nice neat charger do if they need to charge and talk at the same time, with no headset handy.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a TS solution is for everyone. I don't even believe this phone is for everyone (though my wife is already eyeing one, I don't want something that small); nor do I think this phone was meant to be for everyone.

    I just think some folks are looking a little to hard for reasons it won't be a phone for anyone.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  10. #150  
    Here is a good place to discuss using touchstones in the car:

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...+car+pics+here
  11. #151  
    My TS is right next to my steering wheel, easy to view. Plug and unplug? (obviously you have never used one) Cannot relate, I just lift if off and set it back down, plus I never have to search for my phone because it is always in the same spot, in my line of site.
  12. libray's Avatar
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    #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by hboisvert View Post
    Well, recently we've seen a lot more people sliding phones open, especially since the BlackBerry Torch came out. Most BB users I know drooled over the form factor and got one as soon as it was available.
    But in the meantime, Motorola came out with the Droid Pro with a Pixi form factor and marketed to the business user. The market must still be there.
  13. #153  
    Think you need to bone up on your smartphone history. Did you miss all the WinMob phones out there? Most of the business people that weren't using a Treo or BB had a slider winMob phone of some sort. And there were a few portrait sliders out there. The Pre was far from the first. Now with Android you have the Epic, Evo Shift, Droid 2 and quite a few others that have more of a business following than their slate counterparts. You do have the Droid Pro, and Samsung is coming out with a treo style phone, but the Droid Pro supposedly isn't selling that well. Though I blame that more on an uninspired overall design (one I actually liked at first).

    On that note, most of us with Pixis were showing mockups of a better designed Pixi and talking about how they could've fit a 3.2" screen with minimal bezel and a keyboard in a form factor not much bigger than the Pixi. Keeping that slender style in that form factor would've been really nice. No Pixi owner wanted a slider phone, otherwise they would've just bought a Pre. And many only got into webOS, or back into it (in my case) because of that form factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by libray View Post
    Te Pixi is a more business-like device. I don't see many people in meetings who are taking out their smartphones and sliding them open to use.
    Last edited by crogs571; 02/12/2011 at 09:00 PM.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  14. #154  
    obviously you are wrong. I own three of them. Even posted my pics in the car once upon a time. Wasn't my idea to mention plug and unplug. hand that one to parsons. If I'm getting in my car it's usually after being in a place for a while and heavily using the phone. So when I get back into the car, I plug in and charge while I use the phone. If I put it on the the TS I'm not two hand typing and being efficient. There's a touch of reach to do anything and it's only convenient to one hand things.

    And why you people care so much about the touchstone is beyond me. It's not some holy grail of phone accessories. God forbid someone not like it, want to use it or think it's a waste of money (not that it is considering they're like $12). It's the Palm way or the highway. You want an industry standard? Tough crap. It's the Palm way or you're an *****. Apparently the Apple culture extends down from Palm to its blindly loyal users.
    Quote Originally Posted by netwrkr9 View Post
    My TS is right next to my steering wheel, easy to view. Plug and unplug? (obviously you have never used one) Cannot relate, I just lift if off and set it back down, plus I never have to search for my phone because it is always in the same spot, in my line of site.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    The charging connector is part of the charging cable. You would have to lose the entire cable and not have a touchstone in order to be unable to charge, same as with the current Pre.

    The only downside to this design is that you will have to buy the chargeing cable specific to this phone rather than a generic cable. But, that's no different that how it works for the iPhone connector cables.

    The stereo headset adapter is a separate part so you can use any pair of ear buds. The charging cable is a standard USB cable on one end and the magnetic connector molded on to the other end.
    Forgive me if this has already been discussed. Currently when you buy a Touchstone, you have to use the existing micro-usb cable and charger to power it. If the new charger cable for the Veer uses the magnetic connector at one end and full USB at the other, does the new Touchstone use the magnetic connector as well, or does it come with its own cable now? I remember being slightly disappointed on opening the Touchstone box 1.5 years ago and not finding an extra cable and charger.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Forgive me if this has already been discussed. Currently when you buy a Touchstone, you have to use the existing micro-usb cable and charger to power it. If the new charger cable for the Veer uses the magnetic connector at one end and full USB at the other, does the new Touchstone use the magnetic connector as well, or does it come with its own cable now? I remember being slightly disappointed on opening the Touchstone box 1.5 years ago and not finding an extra cable and charger.
    That's a great question. The Touchstone isn't reported to be any different other than it's supposed to have an HP logo. At the event they were using the original Palm touchstones, so if they changed the way the charger connects we wouldn't have seen it.

    It might be sort of cool if they changed it to take the magnetic connector, but I doubt they would do that because the engineering and set-up costs for the touchstone were recovered long ago.

    The easy thing would be for them to include a usb cable with the touchstone in the new packaging. And they are crazy if they don't include the touchstone with both phones...

    I wish I had thought of that to ask during the event...
  17. #157  
    You'd think at this point they would modify the TS to be more useful. That angle is horrible. A two piece that's angled on both sides so you could rotate it and create your own angle or have it be flat. Have an add on on the back for proper mounting, like in the car with existing dash mounts from the usual companies.

    that is a good point though. Phone = proprietary cable. TS = standard microUSB. And not to mention that only certain connectors will fit through the opening, and not all will work even if they do fit. I have a stock Samsung microUSB that puts out 1a and it doesn't work with my touchstone.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  18. #158  
    I'm actually seeing this as a good thing--now I won't have to unplug the cable from my TS to use USB mode. I like the TS being more or less installed and not having to fiddle with the cables.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  19. #159  
    Me? I'm gana be rock'n my Journey when charging on my touchstone version DOS!!!!
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Forgive me if this has already been discussed. Currently when you buy a Touchstone, you have to use the existing micro-usb cable and charger to power it. If the new charger cable for the Veer uses the magnetic connector at one end and full USB at the other, does the new Touchstone use the magnetic connector as well, or does it come with its own cable now? I remember being slightly disappointed on opening the Touchstone box 1.5 years ago and not finding an extra cable and charger.
    On this one I agree. The TS was overpriced (I used my $20 bonus money from Sprint on mine, and still felt it was too high). I opened it in the store, and looked up at the clerk and said "You're kidding, right?" I didn't even say what I was astonished at. She turned around and handed me an extra USB cable.

    I still think it should have come with the carger too, but at least I was able to plug the extra cable into my computer at work to charge (until I bought another TS, and asked for another cable )
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