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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Hmmm... is that perfectly cromulent?
    I think cromulence would only come if someone can get this upgrade to work.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  2.    #42  
    I've recently had some time - and ideas - to try to figure out what might be happening with this.

    Just like the first time around, an article on HackaDay inspired me. This time, it was an account of someone with a Nexus 5X sending their broken phone off to a shop in Shenzen, China, and the process of getting a CPU replacement, also upgraded that phone's RAM from 2GB to 4GB. Upgrading RAM on a Nexus 5X | Hackaday

    The user got the phone back and it all worked - the Android kernel recognized the extra RAM with no modifications, no difference in the boot loader, etc.

    Well, maybe if I installed one of the recent versions of Android onto my TouchPad with the 2GB RAM chip installed, maybe the Android kernel would see the extra RAM, where webOS wouldn't? It's worth a try, right?
  3.    #43  
    I ended up having other problems with the original TouchPad I installed the 2GB RAM chip into, so I got another TouchPad. Before I swapped out the 1GB RAM to 2GB, I installed moboot 0.3.8 and the latest nightly build of Evervolv Android for the TouchPad (7.1.2, I think). When I booted into Android, it saw the 1GB of RAM in the Android Settings app, like I would expect it to.

    I did the "surgery", and installed a 2GB RAM chip like before, and turned on the TouchPad. The surgery was successful - the patient survived, and I first booted into webOS, to make sure everything was working normally. It seemed to be.

    Now on the original TouchPad, when I used novaterm to access the Linux CLI on the TouchPad, I could see that the TouchPad only saw 512MB of RAM, instead of 2GB like I was expecting. So I was expecting the same thing on this one as well, but instead, I got a surprise.

    First, I noticed that I did not get the moboot menu that let me choose between Android and webOS, etc. It skipped right over that and went right into booting into webOS. OK, well, let's novaterm in and see what's going on with the RAM:

    Code:
    root@webos-device:/# free -m
                 total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
    Mem:           919        338        581          0         16        136
    -/+ buffers/cache:        185        734
    Swap:          511          0        511
    root@webos-device:/#
    Wait, what? Now with this other TouchPad, I see 1GB, not 512MB like before? What's going on?
    poehoes likes this.
  4.    #44  
    I examined the contents of the /boot partition to see what might have happened to cause moboot to not show the menu and skip right to webOS. Everything looked fine there, but even after rebooting again, it just never displayed the menu and skipped right to webOS.

    So, I decided to soft-link the uImage to uImage.evervolv (I think that was the right name) and force the TouchPad to boot to Evervolv Android. That's when it got even stranger - Android only partially booted. I never got the "splash" screen - just a black screen, but the backlight was on. I tried access the Android shell via the USB cable, and that worked - I got a shell prompt.

    I didn't capture the results of running "free -m" like I did under webOS, but Android only saw somewhere between 300MB and 400MB, and the logs were filled with "out of memory" messages. (!) So that would explain why I didn't ever see the Android GUI. But why the heck did Android see so little memory? And why did webOS on this TouchPad see more than webOS on the first TouchPad I upgraded to 2GB?

    Well, when I forced this TouchPad to boot into Android by fiddling with the files in the /boot partition, I realized that I didn't know how to modify the /boot partition from Android, so I decided to run the webOS Doctor on it.

    After that was done, I again used novaterm to login to the Linux command line, ran "free -m", and this time I got 512MB of RAM total.

    Uhhh..huh? The same TouchPad...in 3 different situations...came up with 3 different totals of available RAM??? How is that possible?
  5.    #45  
    I figured out at least part of the answer, and the answer is moboot.

    You see, I saw 1GB of RAM in webOS when the TouchPad had moboot installed, and I then booted into webOS.

    After I doctored the TouchPad, the doctoring process re-built the /boot partition, and removed moboot, and when I booted the freshly doctored TouchPad, that's when I saw only 512MB of RAM.

    When I next re-installed moboot on the freshly-doctored TouchPad, and used it to boot to webOS, I again saw 1GB of RAM. (!)

    OK, so it's not all of the 2GB of RAM I have installed, but there is CLEARLY something going on at the bootloader level that influences how much RAM the TouchPad sees. I suspect it has to do with where in physical RAM the Linux kernel gets loaded, but right now, that's just a guess.
    Preemptive, kimsan and KURT B like this.
  6.    #46  
    More progress!

    The good news - I now have a TouchPad that recognizes more than 1GB of RAM!
    The bad news - it doesn't recognize all of the 2GB, and it's not quite stable.

    It took some time to research and learn how to setup a build environment for the moboot boot loader. And also to find where in the moboot source code it tells the linux kernel how much RAM the TouchPad has. And more trial and error to tell it how much extra RAM was available. (It turns out it's not just an extra 1GB, as would seem to be logical)

    Here is what the relevant part the boot logs and command line output look like:

    Code:
    [    0.000000] Memory: 101MB 1408MB = 1509MB total
    [    0.000000] Memory: 1469944k/1469944k available, 75272k reserved, 0K highmem
    [    0.000000] Virtual kernel memory layout:
    [    0.000000]     vector  : 0xffff0000 - 0xffff1000   (   4 kB)
    [    0.000000]     fixmap  : 0xfff00000 - 0xfffe0000   ( 896 kB)
    [    0.000000]     DMA     : 0xff000000 - 0xffe00000   (  14 MB)
    [    0.000000]     vmalloc : 0xe0000000 - 0xfa000000   ( 416 MB)
    [    0.000000]     lowmem  : 0x80000000 - 0xdfe00000   (1534 MB)
    [    0.000000]     pkmap   : 0x7fe00000 - 0x80000000   (   2 MB)
    [    0.000000]     modules : 0x7f000000 - 0x7fe00000   (  14 MB)
    [    0.000000]       .init : 0x80008000 - 0x8003f000   ( 220 kB)
    [    0.000000]       .text : 0x8003f000 - 0x80744000   (7188 kB)
    [    0.000000]       .data : 0x8076c000 - 0x807f1080   ( 533 kB)
    Code:
    root@webos-device:/# free -m
                 total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
    Mem:          1435        454        981          0        116        143
    -/+ buffers/cache:        194       1240
    Swap:          511          0        511
    root@webos-device:/#
    I quickly did a memory "stress test" by loading up a bunch of apps and web pages, and this is where the bad news come in. It seems as soon as webOS wants to access any of the additional RAM, it reboots. :-( It did this more than once, so something still isn't quite right.

    I may have to make some changes to the kernel as well, so more research is needed.
    MudShark22, pcworld and renater like this.
  7. #47  
    I have to admire your persistence! I've delved into my bucket of ignorance to come up with an idea!
    If you have to change the kernel, then it will be a custom kernel. We already have those from webOS Internals. Any chance that one of those will work better? I think it might be unlikely. But what about the LuneOS kernel - made for newer configurations?. But now I'm thinking the kernel might be specific to the H/W...

    Someone feel free to educate me!
  8.    #48  
    Good thought. I have used both stock webOS kernel and webOS Internals UberKernel with the same results.

    -- Sent from my Palm TouchPad using Forums
  9. #49  
    Wow, glad to see some progress has been made, but I'm not sure that it's entirely helpful. I suspect that bootie needs to understand the RAM to properly initialize the hardware.. but I hope I'm wrong, and a way can be found. If you do find a way, I'd gladly finance a set of upgrades for my devices :-D I'll poke at another contact that might know something, but at this point, most useful information is in a memory hole.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  10.    #50  
    It looks like my build environment for moboot isn't quite right. I think I have the right cross-compiler (arm-eabi-gcc?)

    Anyone know someone who can help with this? jcsullins looks like he is off the grid.

    Now I can't re-build moboot from source successfully. Before, I could do it. Grrrr...
  11. #51  
    So I just saw your videos on YouTube of this. Not sure that I had seen them before. After poking around a few weeks back about how the Pre3 was set up, I am really really really tempted to do this to an extra Pre3 board I have laying around. Not sure that I would trust to do it myself, but I think I could send it in to a shop in China (there is at least one, or was at least one) with the right chip and have them do it. Though, I might just be interested to purchase my own equipment. I guess the biggest thing is that it is a two stage process for the memory and the CPU, so I would have to re-solder the CPU which also means putting solder balls back on it...
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  12. #52  
    there are some very cheap tools to put the solder balls in place.
    Basically, if memory serves me well, are kind of stamps of various dimensions ( for different chips ), you put the chip on one side, let the balls settle in the holes on the other, and there should be some mild heating to fix them in place.

    note the "if memory serves me well"
  13.    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    So I just saw your videos on YouTube of this. Not sure that I had seen them before. After poking around a few weeks back about how the Pre3 was set up, I am really really really tempted to do this to an extra Pre3 board I have laying around. Not sure that I would trust to do it myself, but I think I could send it in to a shop in China (there is at least one, or was at least one) with the right chip and have them do it. Though, I might just be interested to purchase my own equipment. I guess the biggest thing is that it is a two stage process for the memory and the CPU, so I would have to re-solder the CPU which also means putting solder balls back on it...
    Yes, the RAM upgrade has already been done on an Nexus 5X earlier this year. I posted a link to it earlier, but here it is again - https://hackaday.com/2017/04/18/upgr...on-a-nexus-5x/

    I'm not saying anyone else has to do it the way I did, but my approach to learning to do it myself is to assume I will ruin multiple chips or motherboards in the process. I bought 12 or 15 of the 2GB RAM chips from AliExpress last year, and I've used about about half so far. I've also sacrificed one TouchPad motherboard in the process.

    Another approach - like you said - may be for you to find a willing shop in China, buy the right RAM chip(s), and also buy one or more extra Pre3 CPUs, and have them do the soldering / reflow for you.
  14.    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by mazzinia View Post
    there are some very cheap tools to put the solder balls in place.
    Basically, if memory serves me well, are kind of stamps of various dimensions ( for different chips ), you put the chip on one side, let the balls settle in the holes on the other, and there should be some mild heating to fix them in place.

    note the "if memory serves me well"
    Yep - you'll find them if you search for "BGA template". Here is an example from Amazon:

    https://www.amazon.com/iPhone-Reball...nUvbUpU3452189
  15. #55  
    Correct me if I'm wrong but, given the pre3 has the cpu+ram on the small daughter card, and it's really small... isn't another option ( if going to the route of sending to a shop ) to have a small board replacement be made to fit the new parts ?
    The design should be relatively simple and it opens to further improvements ( different ram chip etc )
  16.    #56  
    Correct me if I'm wrong but, given the pre3 has the cpu+ram on the small daughter card, and it's really small... isn't another option ( if going to the route of sending to a shop ) to have a small board replacement be made to fit the new parts ?
    The design should be relatively simple and it opens to further improvements ( different ram chip etc )
    I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. What's the advantage of designing and creating new daughter cards? The CPU would have to be the same, the higher-capacity RAM chip would still have to be mounted on top of the CPU. There is no option to mount the RAM somewhere other than on top of the CPU.

    It seems like it would be easier to just use the exiting board and re-attach the CPU with a higher-capacity RAM chip, no?
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by mazzinia View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but, given the pre3 has the cpu+ram on the small daughter card, and it's really small... isn't another option ( if going to the route of sending to a shop ) to have a small board replacement be made to fit the new parts ?
    The design should be relatively simple and it opens to further improvements ( different ram chip etc )
    Unfortunately, it is only the storage memory that is on the daughter-card, with the SIM slot. The mainboard has the RAM+CPU. That said... We could probably do the storage upgrade on the daughter-card. In fact, it might be possible to design one and have it fabed out.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by George Mari View Post
    Yes, the RAM upgrade has already been done on an Nexus 5X earlier this year. I posted a link to it earlier, but here it is again - https://hackaday.com/2017/04/18/upgr...on-a-nexus-5x/

    I'm not saying anyone else has to do it the way I did, but my approach to learning to do it myself is to assume I will ruin multiple chips or motherboards in the process. I bought 12 or 15 of the 2GB RAM chips from AliExpress last year, and I've used about about half so far. I've also sacrificed one TouchPad motherboard in the process.

    Another approach - like you said - may be for you to find a willing shop in China, buy the right RAM chip(s), and also buy one or more extra Pre3 CPUs, and have them do the soldering / reflow for you.
    Hmmmm.... I didn't read back when I commented, but I think I do remember reading that post a few months prior.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
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