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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    EDIT: I hate to suggest this, but if the TP lacks scope for additional H/W, is it possible the board is designed solely for a particular chip & lacks the physical connections to recognise a larger one? I see above ggendel suggests this - or a particular memory controller. If so, then it's another part to replace and the more complex it gets, the less likely to work...
    This document: http://www.qualcomm.com/media/docume...duct-brief.pdf

    states that the CPU supports up to 2GB LPDDR2 RAM, so I'm going with that.
  2.    #22  
    I contacted the Chinese seller I got my 2GB chips from, and they insist these chips are genuine, and not defective or fake. They say they sold over 5000 of these recently and no one has had any problems. Hey, I had to ask, right, for whatever it's worth?

    It's just as likely that I've been using too much heat, and damaged the chips. I didn't really consider this previously, but the more I am researching, using 380C hot air may have been too much.

    So I will try again later today with the heat dialled down to 300C, or less. The problem is you have to transmit enough heat through the top of the chip to melt the solder balls on the bottom. The lead-free solder melts at 250C, and that's about all these chips can stand. If you set the heat to 250C, it takes a long time for that heat to get transmitted through the chip to the underside, maybe even never. Maybe I'll experiment a bit more with one of the "used" chips.
  3. #23  
    Is it practical to pre-heat the two contact surfaces before placement? Perhaps that would reduce the air / heat required when the gap is narrow - avoiding heating through or alternatively, perhaps heat applied on the 'cool' side would top up the temperature on the pre-heated side (I think the laws of physics are against me on that - the temp would equalise through the chip)

    Perhaps a pillar drill-type arrangement where the chip is clamped in the correct position / alignment, cranked up vertically, heated to 250C, then lowered into place while the heat is applied around the gap?

    In fact, a pillar drill could be used...

    Cheap version: Clamp chip to the end of a telescopic radio aerial and clamp the aerial in the aligned position (remembering that it will get hot to the touch). Drawback: It's possible to twist the aerial sections.

    That's enough thinking out loud!
  4.    #24  
    The entire motherboard assembly is pre-heated during the soldering of the new chip, to avoid warping. I am using a hot plate with a 1/8-inch thick plate of aluminum.

    The solder balls used underneath the RAM chip are .4mm, so not much a gap to try to direct heat into.

    -- Sent from my Palm Veer using Forums
  5.    #25  
    So far, I haven't been able to get the solder balls under the chip to melt with lower heat.

    But, I did research into one of the other possible reasons not all 2GB is being recognized, and found this which seems VERY relevant:

    http://wiki.osdev.org/ARM_Overview#Memory_Detection

    I always took for granted how PCs could just automatically detect changes in the amount of installed memory, which the BIOS does together with the OS.

    But smartphones and tablets don't have a BIOS, and they're not designed to handle memory upgrades, so manufacturers basically hard-code the amount of RAM a device has and just pass that value to the kernel or OS. That's what I understand that paragraph at the link is telling me, anyway.

    If that's true, then the RAM configuration for each webOS device must be stored somewhere on its flash storage - maybe one of the webOS tokens, or somewhere on one of the 14 partitions I see on the flash drive of the TouchPad.

    Does anyone know what each partition holds? On the TouchPad, I know a few:

    P12 - webOS boot partition
    P13 - webOS root partition
    P14 - media partition (what you see when plug into a PC)

    I know there are others for bootie, and one holds the tokens (I think), but which? And what's on the others?
  6. #26  
    I don't know... why would you see 1/4th of the new ram vs 1/2 ( equivalent to 1gb ) if hardcoded somewhere ?
    Have you tried putting back the original ram ?
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by mazzinia View Post
    I don't know... why would you see 1/4th of the new ram vs 1/2 ( equivalent to 1gb ) if hardcoded somewhere ?
    Have you tried putting back the original ram ?
    I *think* it is a kernel parameter that bootie uses when booting webOS. But I am not 100% sure. I can try asking someone.

    I was reading this thread yesterday and that was my hypothesis.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  8. #28  
    I am not an expert on the internals of the TouchPad, but something you need to keep in mind is that you may be up against a hardware limitation. Just because the processor supports 2GB and you install 2GB of memory doesn't mean you will see 2GB. In portable devices, board real-estate is an "expensive" commodity. If the manufacturer never planned on having 2GB as an option, the extra address/bank traces needed for the extra memory capacity may not actually exist on the board. When you are trying to make a device as small as possible, even a few extra traces can make a big difference in signal routing and whether the circuit will fit within the size constraints or not.

    Also,
    In regard to you seeing only 1/4 of the original memory with the larger capacity memory chips...

    Different capacity chips usually have different logical layouts. As an example: The original 1GB memory may have had a 4 banks of 32-bits addressed over a 14-bit multiplexed bus. Your new memory may be 2 banks of 32-bits addressed over a 15-bit multiplexed bus. Depending on how HP designed the memory subsystem, these differences could make the system see less memory even though more was installed. However, since I don't have any technical documentation in front of me on the TouchPad or what chips you are attempting to use, this is all just speculation.

    Good luck.
    -Brian
  9.    #29  
    I don't know why it's seeing 512MB instead of 1GB. *If the amount of RAM was hard-coded, I agree it would make more sense.

    I did some research on this today, and I think the available RAM might be specified as 1 or more address ranges, not a set amount. *I don't know if that explains why I'm seeing 512MB instead of 1GB, though.

    I haven't put the 1GB chip back in yet. *Waiting to see if I can figure out how the available RAM amount - or address ranges - is specified.
  10.    #30  
    I *think* it is a kernel parameter that bootie uses when booting webOS. But I am not 100% sure. I can try asking someone.

    I was reading this thread yesterday and that was my hypothesis.
    Yes! Please ask! This is in-line with what I found today! See the section here on "Setup and Initialize RAM" -


    https://github.com/webos-internals/w...on/arm/Booting
  11.    #32  
    Nice find, Mazzinia. I'm hoping this is just a matter of passing a boot parameter to the kernel, like dkirker says, along with the link you posted.

    Worst case, maybe we need to compile a custom kernel.
  12. #33  
    hopefully you don't need a custom bootie :-S

    .... i can't seem to find any of the documentation that used to be around for using bootie from command mode... i know that it was possible..

    Also, cat /proc/cmdline should tell what the kernel boot options passed in were
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  13.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    hopefully you don't need a custom bootie :-S

    .... i can't seem to find any of the documentation that used to be around for using bootie from command mode... i know that it was possible..

    Also, cat /proc/cmdline should tell what the kernel boot options passed in were
    Here is the output of cat /proc/cmdline from my daily driver TouchPad: (identifying information obscured)
    Code:
    GeorgeMariHPTouchpad32GB / # cat /proc/cmdline
    root=/dev/mmcblk0p13 rootwait ro fbcon=disable console=ttyS0,115200n8 androidboot.serialno=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  fb=0x7f600000 nduid=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx klog=0x7ff00000 klog_len=0x100000 boardtype=topaz-Wifi-pvt lastboot=reboot
    GeorgeMariHPTouchpad32GB / #
    I don't see any mention of memory size or address ranges there...
  14. #35  
    This might be of some use: bootie mode allows image backup
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  15.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    This might be of some use: bootie mode allows image backup
    Thanks. Unfortunately, it looks like the instructions for setting the flag to turn on debug mode in bootie have been lost.
  16. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by George Mari View Post
    Thanks. Unfortunately, it looks like the instructions for setting the flag to turn on debug mode in bootie have been lost.
    i'm pretty sure that webos internals *had* a big page on bootie somewhere.. but i'll be damned if i can find anything that looks even kind of related, other than chejlava's posts from years gone by here.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  17. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    i'm pretty sure that webos internals *had* a big page on bootie somewhere.. but i'll be damned if i can find anything that looks even kind of related, other than chejlava's posts from years gone by here.
    Wiki problems... Pages appear to have no content. A Google site search found some cached material and I was able to find some stuff via All pages - WebOS Internals so look there for anything relevant.

    Perhaps some of this?

    Bootie - WebOS Internals
    Bootie Themes - WebOS Internals
    Research Pre Boot Process - WebOS Internals
    Boot Chain - WebOS Internals
  18. #39  
    Yeah, that looks like what I was looking for. I was thinking that perhaps that it could pass a kernel parameter in to force the memory size. However, even with that, it's likely that something else would need configurationating too. (ie, whatever loads bootie, which seems to be hinted at in the Boot Chain page)
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  19. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    configurationating
    Hmmm... is that perfectly cromulent?
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