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  1.    #21  
    So from an at a glance look at that link the capacitor is in the cylinder so all I need is a USB cable that is 2A and I'm good to go? Or do I need a special cable too? I'm assuming at the moment that the samsung USB cable is 2A since samsung indicates the charger delivers 2A for charging the G4. My dad needs a replacement USB cable for his S4 so if I can get him to buy the official product I mentioned before I could get one of the USB cables from him to use with the cylinder as long as I don't need a special USB cable in conjunction with the cylinder.
    As requested: for my works on webOS patches and apps. Twitter: @larryboytw Patches: Small icons browser start page, 5x5 launcher. I have an AAS CIS Programming degree. I enjoy working on open source projects and alpha and beta testing.
    http://install.preware.org/ for easy to get up and running for patches and apps.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneRyno View Post
    So from an at a glance look at that link the capacitor is in the cylinder so all I need is a USB cable that is 2A and I'm good to go? Or do I need a special cable too? I'm assuming at the moment that the samsung USB cable is 2A since samsung indicates the charger delivers 2A for charging the G4. My dad needs a replacement USB cable for his S4 so if I can get him to buy the official product I mentioned before I could get one of the USB cables from him to use with the cylinder as long as I don't need a special USB cable in conjunction with the cylinder.
    The original TP charger will work with a TP even if the cable is the wrong type... a cable rated for 2.0A will last longer...

    But a "special" cable is something you can build yourself when you need to trick the TP into accepting a non-HP 2.0A charger, such as a 2.0A cigarette lighter adapter
    ...
  3.    #23  
    Cool beans, thanks for the help. It looks like for now I have a working solution. I think a UPS would be nice to have assuming there is one I can afford. And a way to determine for sure what I need. It has always been my understanding in the event of power fluctuation or power loss all that mattered was a surge protector. I personally have never had any electronics or anything else plugged into them damaged as a result of either of those things. Around here a few times a year during storms we will lose power briefly (less than 1 minute typically). And I can remember once or twice having power almost go out.
    As requested: for my works on webOS patches and apps. Twitter: @larryboytw Patches: Small icons browser start page, 5x5 launcher. I have an AAS CIS Programming degree. I enjoy working on open source projects and alpha and beta testing.
    http://install.preware.org/ for easy to get up and running for patches and apps.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneRyno View Post
    Thanks for the new replies. Assuming my google search turned up the correct product you referred to I can't afford to spend $500-1000 on something like that. Not when as of right now the only thing we have to go on is the palm chargers aren't working any more. Now if there was several other things too that had failed as well that would be a different story. The only thing the older of the two surge protectors is used for is charging stuff. Oh I just thought of something since I had no idea there are two different kinds of USB cables. I replaced them with the retractable smartphone experts USB cables I bought from the store here. I went to use one of them the other day to discover it went bad the other I can't find. I found the 2nd cylinder, but I can't find the official cables or the cylinder that came with my pre. Could I use the cylinder with my galaxy S4 cable (the one that barely manages to charge the TP) with the cylinder? Perhaps the 2nd cylinder didn't go bad considering the cable is bad. I probably assumed it was the cylinder since the cable was fairly new at the time.

    I looked at the prices of the palm chargers on amazon and unless there is a listing I'm not seeing they are all $20 or more. For comparison I can get two official 5 foot USB 3 S4 cables with the part that plugs into the wall for half that. Looking at the ratings/specs label of it and the cylinder they have the same ratings/specs. So perhaps all I need is the right kind of USB cable for the TP and can use them instead of the cylinder? Thinking ahead here in case I wasn't stupid back when and the cylinder is indeed dead.
    Actually is not that much. I got mine 3 or 4 years ago used with warranty from a company for less than 150 with new original batteries. The 750 model should cost a lot lot less
  5. #25  
    StoneRyno and Remy X,

    Whereas the Blog on the quality and hazards of various make and fake chargers is correct and well heeded, it is irrelevant to this discussion.

    There are (at least) three misconceptions being touted here:

    1) That the ability of a charger to charge the TouchPad is predicated upon it being rated at 2.1 Amps. This is not correct. The TouchPad will NOT draw much more than 800mA from a Charger (even with the original Cable) unless the Data pins on the Charger are correctly configured.

    2) That the Cable is a customised cable. This is not true. The cable is simply a standard configuration USB to MicroUSB B cable BUT of such quality as is able to carry 2.1Amps on the V+ and Gnd lines without appreciable Voltage drop

    3) That other devices such as Samsung products use the same configuration on the Charger output Port to signal that it is safe to draw more than 1.0 Amp. Apple Tablets use dual potential dividers on the data pins and whereas Samsung use a single divider like the TouchPad, both the voltages and impedances presented are different to those of the TouchPad Charger.

    In summary, The TouchPad will NOT draw more than 1.0Amp from any charger unless it senses the correct configuration on the Data+ and Data- pins of the Charger.
    Last edited by Wheel_nut; 12/26/2014 at 06:00 PM.
  6. #26  
    Hi Wheel_nut

    I must say once more that i appreciate the time you've put into solving the charger issue when the Touchpad first came out.. but i think you and i are saying more or less the same thing here, even if i've been a lot less technical in my explanation.

    The article linked to above does mention the charger "indicator" resistor between the "shorted" data wires, somewhere around the two-thirds mark, so i do think it's relevant, at least as far as introducing this issue to the OP. The article clearly states that Apple and HP chose to not follow the official USB spec.


    So to reiterate what you and i, and Sumy are trying to say:

    1) Any USB cable with intact data wires will charge the Touchpad on any USB charger, albeit slowly (~800mA)

    2) A USB cable rated for 2.1A will last longer under 2.1A load than a lesser grade of cable.

    3) The Touchpad will recognize its OEM charger via the "charger rating resistor" placed between the data leads inside the charger, and will draw the full 2A. Likewise, Apple and Samsung devices will recognize their own "high-output" chargers, using the same technique but incompatible resistor values.

    4) A "trick" cable can be created, where the resistor is placed in the cable, to allow the Touchpad to draw the full 2A from an Apple iPad charger or vice versa. Same with the standards-compliant Samsung charger and devices.
    ...
  7. #27  
    Hi Remy,

    The misinformation is in points 3 and 4 of your post above. The TouchPad requires the Data Pins to be bridged (Shorted) and a two-resistor High Impedance Potential Divider applied to the bridged pins. There is also a 1K resistor bleed resistor between the V+ and Gnd pins but this tends to be present on most switched mode power supplies.

    I am being pedantic about this because I have found that the Touch-Screen on the TouchPad can become erratic if you attempt to charge it with the wrong impedance Potential Divider. Also, bodging the cable with the Resistors presents a hazard because it signals the TouchPad to draw the full 2.1Amps and the cable can be plugged into a 1.0Amp Power Source. It is for this reason that I have refused requests to supply such modified cables. The combination of a bodged cable and a cheap fake charger presents an unacceptable risk.

    I hope that this explains my seemingly obsessive posts in this thread.
    Last edited by Wheel_nut; 12/26/2014 at 08:00 PM.
    Remy X likes this.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheel_nut View Post
    [...]

    I am being pedantic about this because I have found that the Touch-Screen on the TouchPad can become erratic if you attempt to charge it with the wrong impedance Potential Divider. Also, bodging the cable with the Resistors presents a hazard because it signals the TouchPad to draw the full 2.1Amps and the cable can be plugged into a 1.0Amp Power Source. It is for this reason that I have refused requests to supply such modified cables. The combination of a bodged cable and a cheap fake charger presents an unacceptable risk.

    I hope that this explains my seemingly obsessive posts in this thread.


    I certainly understand your safety-minded approach and have a great deal of respect for you for this and for standing your ground. In a large household (of more than three people), a modified cable would definitely pose a hazard. Absolutely. Anyone could borrow it, anyone could plug it into a computer in an attempt to transfer data and anyone could bring home an unsafe fake charger.

    But some people come across as being very stubborn in wanting to use an existing 2Amp charger and share it with another device, so the "powder keg cable" it's still a [bad] option, something that would work in a pinch. I personally, would rather build an in-line adapter, like a 1" USB extension cord if i were to go that route, and would keep it clearly marked and out of reach for the general public
    ...
  9.    #29  
    Status update: I plugged in the TP while in webOS with the official TP cylinder and the galaxy S4 USB cable. I ran battery monitor which after an hour at 15 second intervals reported the average charging rate to be 1,500mA. I have not ran tests with it in a long time and don't know if I even got baseline values for the TP. So I'm not sure if while charging the device consuming 500mA of the charging rate is normal. But it certainly would explain why at 1A charge rate I would slowly discharge the battery while charging under full use.
    As requested: for my works on webOS patches and apps. Twitter: @larryboytw Patches: Small icons browser start page, 5x5 launcher. I have an AAS CIS Programming degree. I enjoy working on open source projects and alpha and beta testing.
    http://install.preware.org/ for easy to get up and running for patches and apps.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post


    I certainly understand your safety-minded approach and have a great deal of respect for you for this and for standing your ground. In a large household (of more than three people), a modified cable would definitely pose a hazard. Absolutely. Anyone could borrow it, anyone could plug it into a computer in an attempt to transfer data and anyone could bring home an unsafe fake charger.

    But some people come across as being very stubborn in wanting to use an existing 2Amp charger and share it with another device, so the "powder keg cable" it's still a [bad] option, something that would work in a pinch. I personally, would rather build an in-line adapter, like a 1" USB extension cord if i were to go that route, and would keep it clearly marked and out of reach for the general public
    If you "must" retain the flexibility of being able to use a single charger for all of your dvices then this is a better option. It is a USB A Female to USB A Male adapter modified internally to the TouchPad specification. It also allows you to charge the TouchPad from a portable "Power Bank". However, the same hazards and caveats still apply.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Remy X likes this.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheel_nut View Post
    If you "must" retain the flexibility of being able to use a single charger for all of your dvices then this is a better option. It is a USB A Female to USB A Male adapter modified internally to the TouchPad specification. It also allows you to charge the TouchPad from a portable "Power Bank". However, the same hazards and caveats still apply.
    Yes, that's exactly what i had in mind
    ...
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