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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    people are angry exactly because ACL should have appeared back in 2011 when it would have mattered, yet its been laballed as "available", an available product shouldnt need a 3rd party (PIC) to launch a kickstarter project for funds on a supposedly "completed/available" product, and then have to wait even longer than the 2 years of current wait and then only on 1 dead platform/device.

    i'd hardly call that "bashing" and if it is, its hardly without reason, in fact its far from it, you should probably go check the forums of the other OS platforms that still have nothing after a longer wait than us.

    Personally i did donate for the whole put up or shut up thing, and ive also seen their vids, their not much different to the exact same vids they showed back in 2011.

    i suppose everyones main question is why are we waiting for something thats been complete for so long, and why did it take PIC launching a funding project to get anywhere. Also add in that after this does appear, thats 1 single product they will have released but stuck to 1 singular device, not even 1 operating system but just 1 out of production device.

    i personally dont even comprehend why someone would take the "just wait and see" stance when thats exactly what we and other OS platforms have been doing for a considerable amount of time.
    You have more than made your opinion known. Frankly it is past annoying for you to repeat that opinion over and over again!
    here is a link to the announcement of the beta release and welcoming those in program.

    ACL
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by creepingmee View Post
    Sides? There shouldn't be sides to choose from. It should all be part of the webOS pot. Stop bashing the crap out of ACL and relax. The last bunch of videos showed various news apps playing videos back at good speed. The bashing is over the top. You act as though these people collected money from you then blew you off. They didn't. You didn't donate to the kickstarter and you never gave OM a penny, so just relax, soon enough they will put up or he forced to shut up! The bashing is just pissing people off and the whole choosing sides thing is divisive crap we as a tiny community don't need!
    Rice, beans and gravy

    And mashed potatoes...

    Come on... Internals has their professional integrity and a proven track record. I have every right to favor the hard working people like Rod and Jason over the "used car salesmen" at OM.

    Quote Originally Posted by creepingmee View Post
    You have more than made your opinion known. Frankly it is past annoying for you to repeat that opinion over and over again!
    here is a link to the announcement of the beta release and welcoming those in program.

    ACL
    Repost, lol

    by:
    Quote Originally Posted by Vity Traff View Post
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by creepingmee View Post
    You have more than made your opinion known. Frankly it is past annoying for you to repeat that opinion over and over again!
    here is a link to the announcement of the beta release and welcoming those in program.

    ACL
    might not have to repeat myself if people didnt also repeat the same counter arguments themselves? fact/long history vs blind belief, were all well deserving of some doubt.

    nm, as said, back to topic.
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  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    ...
    i personally dont even comprehend why someone would take the "just wait and see" stance when thats exactly what we and other OS platforms have been doing for a considerable amount of time.
    Because there is nothing more to do, except to make it better yourself.
    I mean, you are of course welcome to create something better yourself. I personally would seriously look into any mobile phone with WebOS on it, that you might create (won't promise you to buy one though).
    And I would totally be interested in any new Preware-Patch and any new app you create.

    If you are, like me, not in the mood or don't have the necessary ressources to do anything like this, then all that's left to do is watch, maybe donate, comment and sometimes even cheer.

    Here, have some popcorn.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
  5. #65  
    Someday somebody should change the name of webos in waitos...

    I agree, the community is so small now that we're not enough to choose or compare a side against another
    Any advance is welcomed, even if it ends up with a damn Tv: We're still hooked by probably the best interface available since five years, and most of us are stuck with Pre's because the two main competitors have not offered something drastically new since their launch in 2007 and 2008; they just have the best apps and the best hardware. So be it. We never had them.

    That's right, using webos is intuitive, and still it's so cool to use, but our machines are slow or buggy sometimes, and running second choice and or apps.
    English is not my mother tongue so I have not read all the threads here, I don't know the disappointments made elsewhere by OM or Phoenix.

    And frankly I don't care: Having the chance of using good apps is a first and major step.
    If one day somebody give webos the good motor that will put it on its two legs, it could be like Motown was: The little engine that could.
    Remember, Palmos died with the same face it had twelve years before. A i-thing is a cool device for 2007, where's the point having it thinner and bigger, wait in files one night on a sidewalk for the next release... Six or seven years later.

    There's a whole lot of space for innovation going down on mobile. And bunches of patience are needed for that, so that we shure have a future.
    Last edited by Wayenberg; 08/08/2013 at 01:44 AM.
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  6. alonhzn's Avatar
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    WebOS Internals never makes promises on delivery... They deliver what they have when it's ready.

    No one from Internals promised a port. They quietly said they are working on it. They've delivered an Alpha and an Alpha 2 on the GNex Port. There still is no promise on a Beta. They just do, not talk. And they declined another funding round this summer.

    OpenMobile has been shouting to anyone who would listen that ACL is a done deal and ready to roll for oh so many platforms since CES in January 2011. It has yet to be delivered to any OEM or consumer on any platform and reach the hands of an average consumer. ACL for TouchPad will cost an estimated $30 a copy. That's one expensive App. How many Apps have any of us bought for $30??? Never mind performance... Assume it works for the majority of Gingerbread level Apps. $30 is a lot for that in 2013. That price would have been jumped on in 2011 and the TP market was larger with more focus on it (free word of mouth). It would have sold in 2011 like it never will in almost 2014 already with Gingerbread failing fast support-wise. OpenMobile failed to power through on their own and finish this thing. Why does it require a $30,000 bribe from the community to finish their own work??? WTH kind of business model is that???

    DISGUSTING and UnEthical - that's what kind of business model OM has.

    Compare them to WebOS Internals and or the Ports Team? How can you???
    You have beautiful Ideals of ethics but please stop and think about it:
    1. Some call it promises some call it setting goals - in any case, you can't convince people to fund you if you don't do one or the other! and the different between "promises" and "goals" is just politics and public relations crap.
    2. Yes, 30$ is reasonable because:
    2.1 There are very few webos users out there.
    2.2 This one "app" is actually equivalent to thousands perhaps millions of apps
    2.3 This is the one and ONLY effort to save the touchpad. perhaps Webos.
    2.4 developing requires a lot of $$

    What you have to understand is that not everyone can afford to invest their time and effort to develop software for free!! it's NOT unethical to request an investment!! in fact, this is how the whole world is working! the ideals of open source are charming and beautiful but not everyone can use them because not everyone can afford them.
    rwhitby said: "There is one small but very important difference: WebOS Internals only requests donations for things that are already delivered to end users, never for future promises."
    Well, that is admirable but:
    1. Not everyone can afford it
    2. It does NOT make other funding options unethical or wrong in any way.
    3. Promises are not required for projects without funding - but mandatory for projects that need funding! it's not fair to ask someone to request funding without making promises because he will never get funded... and yes, sometimes developers don't meet their deadline. As a developer myself (not webos) I can tell you it's a joke to expect otherwise.
    And let me ask rwhitby one last question: Did the all donations cover a decent pay for all your (and all the other members of WebOS Internals) work, considering the hours, days and months you spent, the cost of living in your country and payments you could have recived if you worked as salaried employee? my guess is a big fat NO. so again, it's admirable but it's not ok to expect others to to conform to this martyr ideals, it should be their own choice and they should not be discouraged to do so simply because there are other method of funding, especially if they are not really able to support a decent paycheck.
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  7. #67  
    It's always the same. People investing in a kickstarter believe they earn the right to an app (or whatever the kickstarter is up to produce), when in fact they earn the right to a promise that can be fulfilled or not.

    You buy a promise, you always need to be aware that it might not be fulfilled.

    Life is easy.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
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  8. #68  
    I guess that's why Gold was removed from the Global financial equation in favour of bits of 'Fiat' paper with 'Promisary Note' written on them?
    Basically useless.. I agree!

    However, if one chooses to contribute towards a 'project' financially, you are then distinctly taking a 'bet' - yes!



    PS. (Doesn't continuing 'War' just prove how unevolved those who remain really still are?)

    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  9. #69  
    Let's hold our breath another coming month (30th September) and judge then. It'll surely not have any app running, and some will be sluggish. But hopefully we get some more than that +2 webOS Catalog Apps a month right now.

    So we can still use our favourite outdated OS on our favorite outdated devices (well only Touchpads for now) with perhaps at least some of the newer apps (though i guess without real webOS-interaction like copy&paste or BT-support...).

    For me at least nearly all of my friends bought another two high-priced devices since then, so 30$ would be reasonable for some new bling on my TP. And i would give another 30 for Pre2
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  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by alonhzn View Post
    rwhitby said: "There is one small but very important difference: WebOS Internals only requests donations for things that are already delivered to end users, never for future promises."
    Well, that is admirable but:
    1. Not everyone can afford it
    2. It does NOT make other funding options unethical or wrong in any way.
    3. Promises are not required for projects without funding - but mandatory for projects that need funding! it's not fair to ask someone to request funding without making promises because he will never get funded... and yes, sometimes developers don't meet their deadline. As a developer myself (not webos) I can tell you it's a joke to expect otherwise.
    1. Agreed.
    2. Agreed.
    3. Agreed.

    I think you may have taken my very short factual (no opinions expressed) single response on this thread and somehow merged it in with responses from other people in your mind.

    And let me ask rwhitby one last question: Did the all donations cover a decent pay for all your (and all the other members of WebOS Internals) work, considering the hours, days and months you spent, the cost of living in your country and payments you could have recived if you worked as salaried employee? my guess is a big fat NO. so again, it's admirable but it's not ok to expect others to to conform to this martyr ideals, it should be their own choice and they should not be discouraged to do so simply because there are other method of funding, especially if they are not really able to support a decent paycheck.
    The WebOS Internals developers donated all their skills and time for free (i.e. no-one received any sort of salary). Donations received are spent on server and hosting expenses, and development hardware devices.

    Note that WebOS Internals has never said that others should work this way - developers are free to follow whatever licensing and commercialisation path they choose.

    Again, I think you may have confused my single factual response somehow with the somewhat opinionated (and quite negative) responses of others in this thread.

    To be clear: I backed this kickstarter, and advised others to do the same. "Put up or shut up" works equally well for both sides of this debate ... the backers have "put up" the funding, and now are waiting for PIC/OM to "put up" a public non-NDA product in the rough timeframe promised. As far as I can see (and I have no reason to not believe the updates coming from PIC), they seem to be roughly on track.

    -- Rod

    PS: you may like to go back and re-read my single post on this thread before this one (it's post #50), and determine whether your comments addressed specifically to me are justified, or whether your anger is better directed at those people from which the comments you are responding to originated ...
    Last edited by rwhitby; 08/08/2013 at 08:58 AM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
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  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by alonhzn View Post
    2.3 This is the one and ONLY effort to save the touchpad. perhaps Webos.
    2.4 developing requires a lot of $$
    2.3, It was meant to save webOS (and others?) in 2011 when we had virtually no apps, and were the same now, only we dont have any in production devices, nowhere near the userbase as before and we still dont have it. (worth reading the windows/deja'vu thread when various news websites also report the lack of apps has hurt microsoft's RT/arm devices due "surprise surprise" a lack of app selection, same issue the touchpad had/has)

    2.4 in OM's case, they already had it finished and working in 2011, so what else needed doing? and why did it take a 3rd party to step in and create yet more funds for their finished product.
    Last edited by geekpeter; 08/08/2013 at 09:43 AM.
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  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy1969 View Post
    It's always the same. People investing in a kickstarter believe they earn the right to an app (or whatever the kickstarter is up to produce), when in fact they earn the right to a promise that can be fulfilled or not.

    You buy a promise, you always need to be aware that it might not be fulfilled.

    Life is easy.
    and lets also remember it was PIC (a 3rd party) who started the kickstarter to get things rolling, not Open Mobile, OM still have not done anything to appease potential customers (afaikafaikafaik $their$ $still$ $only$ $chasing$ $OEM$'$s$? $instead$ $of$ $joe$ $average$), someone had to step in and do it for them.
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  13. #73  
    I have no problem waiting for ACL.

    But I'm not sure its the only effort to save the TouchPad and possibly webOS. WebOS Ports seems to be chugging along steadily for over a year now (impressive longevity for volunteers) and I would not be surprised if they came out with a working open webOS model by the time LG comes out with their new webOS tv. T

    Plus, if WebOS Ports did come out with a working model, I would also not be surprised if someone enterprising found a way to back port it to the TouchPad using the android kernel side of things. I don't know where that leaves us with apps but I'm not crazy about using android apps anyway--it just feels like too many of them have hooks into device information that is none of their business to run their app function.

    At any rate, the future of open WebOS still seems exciting to me.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    but I'm not crazy about using android apps anyway--it just feels like too many of them have hooks into device information that is none of their business to run their app function.
    thats my biggest gripe about plenty fo what would otherwise be good apps, more infuriating when u cant buy a version that doesnt stick its fingers where its not needed

    its also where theres only 1 live wallpaper i use, 1 of the starfield wallpapers as its 1 of amazingly few that has the permissions "requires nothing" when others seem to want the lot.

    also on the apple side, you dont even get to know unless you visit an external website, at least android warns you tho many dont know or care what it all means anyways.
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  15. alonhzn's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    1. Agreed.
    2. Agreed.
    3. Agreed.

    I think you may have taken my very short factual (no opinions expressed) single response on this thread and somehow merged it in with responses from other people in your mind.



    The WebOS Internals developers donated all their skills and time for free (i.e. no-one received any sort of salary). Donations received are spent on server and hosting expenses, and development hardware devices.

    Note that WebOS Internals has never said that others should work this way - developers are free to follow whatever licensing and commercialisation path they choose.

    Again, I think you may have confused my single factual response somehow with the somewhat opinionated (and quite negative) responses of others in this thread.

    To be clear: I backed this kickstarter, and advised others to do the same. "Put up or shut up" works equally well for both sides of this debate ... the backers have "put up" the funding, and now are waiting for PIC/OM to "put up" a public non-NDA product in the rough timeframe promised. As far as I can see (and I have no reason to not believe the updates coming from PIC), they seem to be roughly on track.

    -- Rod

    PS: you may like to go back and re-read my single post on this thread before this one (it's post #50), and determine whether your comments addressed specifically to me are justified, or whether your anger is better directed at those people from which the comments you are responding to originated ...
    Although I quoted you, I was replying to RumoredNow's message (which was a "bit" harsh) not yours. I'm sorry it came across this way. I have no objection to what you wrote, I simply used it to explain that it is not the only legitimate way to go. And the question I directed to you was meant to be rhetorical.
    Also, there is no anger... Just a passionate debate. My English is not good enough for me to express my exact ideas so sometimes it comes out a little off.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    and lets also remember it was PIC (a 3rd party) who started the kickstarter to get things rolling, not Open Mobile, OM still have not done anything to appease potential customers (afaikafaikafaik $their$ $still$ $only$ $chasing$ $OEM$'$s$? $instead$ $of$ $joe$ $average$), someone had to step in and do it for them.
    Seems like people are starting to confuse the two...

    RumoredNow and i are criticizing OpenMobile, but readers are defending PIC and crapping on us for being negative. Guys, OpenMobile is a for-profit corporation (that does nothing but live off of investment) that lies on its website and continues to sit on a half-baked product.

    PIC (Phoenix International) is their customer and the company behind the Kickstarter in question. PIC poked and prodded OM until the latter dusted off ACL (which has not been updated in months or even years) and agreed to work on it for 30+ grand.

    PIC is the target of some doubts due to the fact that they chose such a disreputable company to work with (when there's Myriad, whose customers are Blackberry, Jolla and then some third OEM). OM is the target of all the rotten tomatoes because they've earned a very bad reputation. Simple enough
  17.    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Seems like people are starting to confuse the two...

    RumoredNow and i are criticizing OpenMobile, but readers are defending PIC and crapping on us for being negative. Guys, OpenMobile is a for-profit corporation (that does nothing but live off of investment) that lies on its website and continues to sit on a half-baked product.

    PIC (Phoenix International) is their customer and the company behind the Kickstarter in question. PIC poked and prodded OM until the latter dusted off ACL (which has not been updated in months or even years) and agreed to work on it for 30+ grand.

    PIC is the target of some doubts due to the fact that they chose such a disreputable company to work with (when there's Myriad, whose customers are Blackberry, Jolla and then some third OEM). OM is the target of all the rotten tomatoes because they've earned a very bad reputation. Simple enough
    Well said. PIC has done nothing to have me or anyone else for that matter doubt them. Whether or not they come through will play itself out in time. As of now they have been transparent in what they are doing and have kept everyone up to date in regards to deadlines, release schedules, and changes to those schedules.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Seems like people are starting to confuse the two...

    RumoredNow and i are criticizing OpenMobile, but readers are defending PIC and crapping on us for being negative. Guys, OpenMobile is a for-profit corporation (that does nothing but live off of investment) that lies on its website and continues to sit on a half-baked product.

    PIC (Phoenix International) is their customer and the company behind the Kickstarter in question. PIC poked and prodded OM until the latter dusted off ACL (which has not been updated in months or even years) and agreed to work on it for 30+ grand.

    PIC is the target of some doubts due to the fact that they chose such a disreputable company to work with (when there's Myriad, whose customers are Blackberry, Jolla and then some third OEM). OM is the target of all the rotten tomatoes because they've earned a very bad reputation. Simple enough
    this pretty much sums up what i could have, should have and would have preferred to say in a nutshell.

    +1
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  19. #79  
    Personally I can't wait for ACL to come out. Weather or not its buggy, weather or not is fast, weather or not its stable and will run app x etc. At least then all this useless debate about it will stop! I will have fun playing with it even if its not good enough for others. Its not like there are a lot of android apps I just MUST have, I just want to delete CM10 from my touchpad, and hopefully maybe an android web browser will be useable on it. If we only go that one thing, that right there would make it worth the $30.
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  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by creepingmee View Post
    At least then all this useless debate about it will stop!
    I doubt that will be the case.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
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