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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkalogia View Post
    Secondly, for the product itself. PIC has promised to deliver a platform where u can run android apps in a card interface. This will be compatible with android 2.2 and 2.3 and not 3.0 and above. Also i it is unclear to me which apps will be supported.
    It bears looking at the trends of Android 2.2/2.3 usage: it now accounts for only 43.8% of total Android usage after being in the 60s just last year, and it's accelerating as carriers begin the process of dropping 2.3 devices from retail completely and existing 2.3 devices come up for contract renewal (upgrades); many apps are baselining at 4.x as a result due to the cluster that 2.3 was in order to take advantage of the new SDK features and enjoy much easier alignment to modern device compatibility.

    Dashboards | Android Developers

    As you can see, 3.x is for all intents and purposes dead. 0.2% of Android installs.

    Following on what Rod said earlier about the 500,000 apps claim, many indie app stores simply do not carry and do not have access to the most popular titles. They'll really need to make sure they get the top of the indies in AppMall if people are to get the apps they really want, but most first-name titles are still Play-only or Play-and-Kindle-only applications, for instance. AppBrain, etc.; those stores are decent for new and upcoming indie developers to put their apps out for wider audiences, mostly, although you'll see a few higher-end titles like TuneIn pop up in them. Netlfix appears to be on AppBrain, now that I've rechecked.

    Another consequence of not having Play access: You don't get Google's apps (inc. Play) without sideloading them, assuming they don't get irked by ACL enough to shut off Play access by the identifier ACL reports mimicking Android. CyanogenMod has a gentleman's agreement with Google allowing Google Apps to be flashed onto a CM-powered device so long as they're distributed separately of the CM distribution itself, so they don't have such problems. ACL has neither this luxury nor assurance, and I'm sure the CM team would not be nice about another organization copping their identifier in order to ride their access coattails.
    Last edited by dignitary; 04/29/2013 at 10:41 PM.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by milhouse View Post
    N9 sales were estimated at between 1.5M and 2M, which exceeds all Touchpad sales as far as I can recall (and since ACL is only aimed at Touchpad, this means MeeGo is a significantly larger market, and not a percentage of Touchpad). However the actual numbers were never disclosed by Nokia, so it's impossible to say for sure.



    Sailfish will be using Alien Dalvik from Myriad, not ACL from OpenMobile, which tells you all you need to know about OpenMobile and ACL.
    Thanks for the info.

    I was referring to numbers of webOS users as a whole, with a view to how this Touchpad only project might go on the benefit webOS/OwOS as a whole. So my assumption is still that the number is bigger than current N9 users, BUT I'd love to know what the actual number of webOS users is. If anyone knows or can make a reasonable guess, then this is the figure we can multiply by various currency amounts to see what projects might pay off...
  3. #143  
    From their FAQ they say that the ACL needs to be optimized for the hardware it runs on. Personally, I think this highlights the limitations of the ACL model. What I interpret from this is that the ACL offered will be available to the Touchpad only, thus making the outcome of this kickstarter an highly isolated product which will have to be worked on for every single device that can run webOS. I wish them luck but at the moment I can't see the ACL model helping webOS move forwards.
    RumoredNow likes this.
  4. #144  
    If LG bring out webOS devices and go all out pushing the system, then that's the big leap we're all waiting for.

    Community efforts will only be one step at a time. Bringing a larger app store to webOS is a step forward and if this was on OpenwebOS, might generate real interest, but I'm not aware that open webOS is running fully featured/functional on anything. You could try to optimise ACL for OwOS on the Gnex, but how many takers would there be?

    PIC have to make a judgement on the newest, most used piece of existing webOS hardware as a first step. In my opinion, that's the Pre2, Pre3 or Touchpad (maybe a veer, but I'm not sure many were sold). They all run the latest/last version of webOS, are fully functional and are still in use. PIC have chosen the Touchpad. Presumably, if this project is a success, they will then move to other platforms - maybe funded by sales. If hardware optimisation is a factor, then moving forward may be a problem - where's the new hardware? What can OwebOS properly run on? They could step sideways to the phone platforms, but for a step forward, there needs to be something (e.g. Gnex / Nexus4) running a complete OwebOS or LG might take up and further develop this for TVs or possible future phones. I guess PIC are banking on one of these developments...

    ...in the coming months.

    So, yes, this step doesn't really move webOS forward, but it might keep some users who are looking enviously at their Android using pals and retain interest and I would say is a necessary first step to some as yet unclear future...
    Last edited by Preemptive; 04/30/2013 at 08:32 AM. Reason: typo
    Jive Turkey likes this.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by maninwhitecoat View Post
    From their FAQ they say that the ACL needs to be optimized for the hardware it runs on. Personally, I think this highlights the limitations of the ACL model. What I interpret from this is that the ACL offered will be available to the Touchpad only, thus making the outcome of this kickstarter an highly isolated product which will have to be worked on for every single device that can run webOS. I wish them luck but at the moment I can't see the ACL model helping webOS move forwards.
    My thoughts were along the same line, but I also figured that the TouchPad may be an isolated product line for them, but... if they do it up correctly and get it running fully, then webOS becomes a launchpad for the product and it brings much needed focus on webOS again (even if it is minor). From what I can see, the TouchPad (and webOS) would be used as a main demonstration of the product since I don't think it is 'fully' running on any other platform outside of a bare Alpha demo.
    Jive Turkey likes this.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    I was referring to numbers of webOS users as a whole, with a view to how this Touchpad only project might go on the benefit webOS/OwOS as a whole. So my assumption is still that the number is bigger than current N9 users, BUT I'd love to know what the actual number of webOS users is. If anyone knows or can make a reasonable guess, then this is the figure we can multiply by various currency amounts to see what projects might pay off...
    I thought it was a million Touchpads that were sold in the fire sale, but I could be wrong. No idea how many Veer/Pre devices were sold in total, but let's be honest, it's likely that only a fraction of these smaller devices remain in use, and only among the hardcore Palm community members - most everyone else will have moved on to another device that is still supported.

    While the continued use of Touchpads may be higher than with Veer/Pre's, this is also a declining market and with OpenWebOS not coming to existing WebOS hardware (at least, not officially) I really don't see much of a future there either (IMHO).

    So you can multiply any figure you like by whatever currency amount you can think of, it's still not going to amount to very much in reality.

    Judging by the Kickstarter options, ACL is going to cost in the region of $30, which is going to be a major disincentive to those remaining Touchpad users that aren't "hardcore" (like me - I'll use it until it breaks or its bugs drive me up the wall and I throw it through a window, but I certainly won't be spending any more money on it, I'd rather put that towards a new tablet).
    RumoredNow likes this.
  7. #147  
    And that's the thing... I really doubt that the "hardcore" users who bought Touchpads cause they thought it'd be a good hacking toy and have CM9/CM10 loaded onto it are going to be the market for the ACL if if ever goes on sale, and sure as heck aren't going to pay $30 for access to the free Gingerbread apps.

    We need a better guided fundraiser. The $12,000+ of support pledged so far on the kickstarter shows that people are willing to put money down to support WebOS... we just need something that isn't quite so misguided.

    The community could probably raise twice that with a kickstarter for something real, like a product.
    White Z10, Touchpad 16GB [Retired: Pre 3, Pre 2, Pixi Plus, Pre Plus]
    Back on a BlackBerry after 2 1/2 years with WebOS.

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    RumoredNow and ananimus like this.
  8. #148  
    still a good thing they raised a FAQ/Concerns info on their kickstarter page to let people know exactly what stage their at and what issues there are, should have done that from the beginning tho, wouldnt have been nearly as many "?" posts here if they had.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    still a good thing they raised a FAQ/Concerns info on their kickstarter page to let people know exactly what stage their at and what issues there are, should have done that from the beginning tho, wouldnt have been nearly as many "?" posts here if they had.
    Sometimes you don't know what questions to answer until after they are asked
    Author:
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    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
    Jive Turkey likes this.
  10. #150  
    I pledged. Why not? I've spent $30 on worse things. No matter what you tried to do, there would be nay-sayers. "you'll never make it, your doomed!" that's easy to do sit and complain about everything. Whatever I'll enjoy seeing this happen, or at least I'll know I tried...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums
    Jive Turkey and MAMISHO like this.
  11. #151  
    Hasn't there already been some other sponsor(s)/investor(s)/customers? Some money exchanging hands?

    Somehow, OpenMobile has lasted this long, subsisted on some money that didn't come from us, and they still have nothing available to the public for download, not even a public beta on any platform...

    I don't fault PIC for trying to get something done, but at the same time, why reward more empty promises? Why? There's a reason why I haven't taken a single donation.. i do have tons of unfinished stuff lying around that I plan on releasing soon, but won't take a single dime unless you'll really have something in your hands. That's my rule, a line that i'll never cross. I also hold others to the same standards.
    geekpeter and RumoredNow like this.
  12. #152  
    From the FAQ on the kick start page:

    "What will the price of the software be?
    Pricing has not yet been finalized, but it's fairly safe to say we expect it to be in the $20 to $35 range. I know you'd like to hear an exact price, but unfortunately there are still some details we are still working out. Once we've done that we will let you know right away.

    Last updated: Monday Apr 29, 9:08pm EDT"



    Let's take the pricing for a finished product at the low end. $20 for a third party App catalog of GingerBread level Apps?

    What does that get you? I can't find access to OpenaMobile's AppMall through my browser. To the best of my research they only have neXva signed on to partner for that AppMall so here is neXva's site so you can see what you are buying into: neXva.com - mobile reloaded

    It will cost at least $20 for a copy of ACL???

    How would any OS fare if they charged a $20 entrance fee to get into their App Store? IMHO, not very well.

    $20 buy in, GingerBread level support, limited repackaging of Apps for support on one device.

    That does not sound like a feasible sales model to me.

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  13. #153  
    Okay... let's gonna be serious: $ 20.00 is expensive. Yes, expensive.

    If you are not a webOS lover, this is a high value to just install more apps in your device.

    I can send as donation... what? $ 30.00? $ 50.00? Is not important how much, because I "trying to help our cause". But when I'm really buying, from "verb" ( ) pay for something, is different. Very different. And the simple humans gonna think like me in this second case...

    The most of people would like to pay nothing, but a low price still can call more customers to the product.

    I know that the developers don´t like, but the real change that the Apple make in apps market was not a central store, but a LOWEST prices in apps, good or not. And; yes, works. Ask to Google...

    I told and I gonna repeat that until now, the ACL is the same as Classic, and is the same as Companion Link Usb Sync: something that I know that I wanna, but I don't know exactly "why" and is expensive too much to I try to discover if I really need...

    Add the fact that there is the - bad but possible - option to install Android in dual boot (yes, this is a very strong "competition", because is very cheap: free), this value continue very, very high...

    I don't know if I'm right or not... but this is my impressions about the purpose, and look that I didn't question about "2.3" or trust or not... yet...


    Best Regards...
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    RumoredNow and Remy X like this.
  14. #154  
    Really hoping since it's supposedly in a working state now they will take the next two months to bring it up to Android 4.2 app support. Same thing with using the (much better) native webOS keyboard. Probably too much wishful thinking though.

    I'm curious about how games would run using this also. I'd love Plants vs. Zombies on my tablet at least.

    Also curious about how these apps will tie into the webOS notification system. If I am able to put Google+ or Instagram or something on my TouchPad I would really like to get notifications from the apps.

    Very disappointed about it not being for webOS 2.x devices as well. I really doubt it would take much work for them to get it to work at least on the Pre 3/Veer which had hardware that wasn't too much different than the TouchPad. Getting Netflix and Instagram and everything on a tablet is nice but on a phone would make it all the more useful since my tablet only goes with me to work and around the apartment.

    Still, I'm happy I donated and sincerely hope I am pleased with what I get in two months.
    Devices: Pre3 16GB (AT&T - webOS 2.2.4) | White TouchPad 4G 32GB (AT&T - webOS 3.0.5 + LunaCE)
    MAMISHO likes this.
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by cbosdell View Post
    Really hoping since it's supposedly in a working state now they will take the next two months to bring it up to Android 4.2 app support. Same thing with using the (much better) native webOS keyboard. Probably too much wishful thinking though.

    I'm curious about how games would run using this also. I'd love Plants vs. Zombies on my tablet at least.

    Also curious about how these apps will tie into the webOS notification system. If I am able to put Google+ or Instagram or something on my TouchPad I would really like to get notifications from the apps.

    Very disappointed about it not being for webOS 2.x devices as well. I really doubt it would take much work for them to get it to work at least on the Pre 3/Veer which had hardware that wasn't too much different than the TouchPad. Getting Netflix and Instagram and everything on a tablet is nice but on a phone would make it all the more useful since my tablet only goes with me to work and around the apartment.

    Still, I'm happy I donated and sincerely hope I am pleased with what I get in two months.
    their FAQ says you can run netflix tho its terrible like when CM7 first appeared and had no hardware acceleration (same issue webOS ports and every other open webOS team/dev has funnily enough), all youtube vids ive seen of ACL on every platform they have demo'd didnt seem to have hardware acceleration either so guessing performance will be pretty low for some apps depending on their content.

    its a shame they cited the touchpad/webOS's deadend outcome as a means to not update their android 2.x to current standards, however, and correct me if im wrong here but their using the same 2.x model for every other OS their courting as well?

    Considering the length of time CM7/9/10 has been out and others im actually q surprised they havent just taken bits and pieces of what they need from there as a means to try improving their product.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  16. #156  
    Not looking good for this goal getting met IMHO
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    their FAQ says you can run netflix tho its terrible like when CM7 first appeared and had no hardware acceleration (same issue webOS ports and every other open webOS team/dev has funnily enough), all youtube vids ive seen of ACL on every platform they have demo'd didnt seem to have hardware acceleration either so guessing performance will be pretty low for some apps depending on their content.

    [...]
    Hmm... and the Russian guy who had a demo of Android running in a card on a Pre3 claimed to have none of the graphics issues, since supposedly Android passed the graphics calls through webOS. I wonder who lied here.
  18. #158  
    You are dreaming if you think that they will get it up to 4.2 compatability and release it for the TouchPad. There is a better chance that LG releases a webos phone than that happening.
    White Z10, Touchpad 16GB [Retired: Pre 3, Pre 2, Pixi Plus, Pre Plus]
    Back on a BlackBerry after 2 1/2 years with WebOS.

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  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Hmm... and the Russian guy who had a demo of Android running in a card on a Pre3 claimed to have none of the graphics issues, since supposedly Android passed the graphics calls through webOS. I wonder who lied here.
    different projects, different results, the russian dev had a variant of chompers "android in a card" which was originally concieved in what, 2011? i dont think chomper got accelerated gfx working right either but even chomper had something to offer for "android in a card" way back then.

    Also i think the russian dev made his for phones didnt he? which would have pleased the other side of the fence in webOS land who wanted android apps on their phones.
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  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    Not looking good for this goal getting met IMHO
    i obviously dont know how they run things, but not updating their app in so long while apparantly still having the ££/$$ to go demo it all over the place is quite mystifying.

    Surely if they have the cash to go to shows/events and hire people to do all this then they must have had even a little cash to fund changes/updates to something more up to date and useable.



    ^ chomper managed that in 2011 on his own (and i think his initial pre-alpha version was android 3.x) with no funding and was the first to do so afaikafaikafaik, $its$ $why$ $i$ $cant$ $understand$ $how$ $openmobiles$ $model$ $has$ $seemingly$ $become$ $static$ $for$ $as$ $long$ $as$ $it$ $has$ $done$ $and$ $their$ $a$ $company$/$business$.
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    sledge007 likes this.

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