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  1. #101  
    Any idea what this software would cost the consumer assuming it gets released? Would they ask for $35k in funding and then charge people?
  2. #102  
    I'd like to see the OpenMobile folks come back to the forums and answer some questions here, or at least do some PRPRPR $work$. $This$ $is$ $the$ $largest$ $webOS$ $community$ ($yet$) $and$ $if$ $they$ $can$'$t$ $get$ $a$ $group$ $of$ $webOS$ $enthusiasts$ $to$ $trust$ $them$, $I$ $don$'$t$ $see$ $this$ $ending$ $positively$. $OpenMobile$ $needs$ $to$ $jump$ $in$ $and$ $at$ $least$ $show$ $a$ $PR$ $presence$ $on$ $webOS$ $Nations$ $again$. $They$ $seem$ $to$ $have$ $disappeared$ $from$ $this$ $site$ $when$ $members$ $started$ $calling$ $them$ $out$ $on$ $empty$ $promises$ $last$ $time$ $around$.

    I'm not a pessimist and was a supporter when they first started a couple years ago. But once bitten, twice shy. Them reaching out to the community would go well for them. /2cents
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 04/29/2013 at 10:40 AM.
  3. #103  
    OK, let's say that PIC is lying when they say you can purchase and download paid apps. (I'm not saying this--I think that's carrying skepticism one step too far.) So what's left is a v2.3 compatible emulator for free apps. That still solves most of my problems with WebOS. What's really frustrating is not being able to run the "convenience" special-purpose apps, which are usually released to support some service that I'm already paying for in some other context, like Netflix, banking, cloud storage, etc. These apps are almost always free, and almost always support Android 2.2 or higher.

    So it's still pretty good stuff.
  4. #104  
    Well... let's gonna be serious: if there is hardware, and if this hardware can be sold & if this hardware don't gonna be killed, the apps will come...

    I miss some softwares... but I miss more hardware...

    In the end, the ball gone back to LG...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
    RumoredNow likes this.
  5. #105  
    Openmobile ACL demo for webOS - Jan 2012

    jump to 0:40 - interviewer asks, "so what version of android is this" ACL dood says "were working towards ICS but this is gingerbread" also the app market shown looks like amazons rather than google play.

    so nearly a whole year and a half from this videos release to get basically no further.

    ---

    They have demo'd an appmall/catalogue as a seperate entity


    i currently have not seen this demo'd along with their tizen/webos/plethora of other ACL videos, you'd think or hope this would be the very first thing shown in 1 of their ACL demos, again showing that the kickstarter video/demo needs redone to show exactly how things work. Is the market "work in progress", "soon(tm)" or fully functional and part of each platforms ACL build? hopefully yes.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  6. #106  
    I'm currently using a Blackberry Playbook which has android apps running in an emulator (2.3.3).

    There are some android apps available in the official Blackberry store. For those apps not available in the store, someone has to get the android file, convert them into a different format for Blackberry (a "bar" format) and sign them. Then they can be side loaded (on the mac via terminal commands, or google chrome apparently has an add-on which you can click).

    Some in the Blackberry community have created websites which host the converted files so it is easy to visit the website and download them. Recently, one of those people has also created an linux engine on the website which will convert an android app you upload to the engine. You can see there has been some effort needed by the community to make the android app concept work.

    The apps converted are only free apps. No paid apps or pirated apps are allowed on the Blackberry community websites hosting converted apps.

    In terms of security, the android apps ask for the usual varying permissions including access to all your files in some cases and ability to access the internet, presumably to upload information (to advertising companies?).
    If you refuse permissions, the apps do not run. If you say yes to permissions, there is no way on the playbook to modify permissions afterwards even though the standard android app includes a disclaimer that says you can modify. In some cases, I have taken to just deleting the app as it gradually dawned on me that Blackberry only has access to the permissions of its native apps.

    There are a number of free android apps that are available but there also are many that can't be run on the Playbook. For example, Netflix, Skype and Instagram android apps cannot be run on the Playbook. The new Blackberry phones with OS10 can run all three of those apps above and the unofficial word is that the new OS10 for the phones has updated the runtime on the android emulator app as well as provided it access to native Blackberry code somehow, although this information has not been confirmed by any official Blackberry source as far as I know (yet we do know that Skype had to create a special android port just for Blackberry, the normal android port apparently did not work unmodified).

    If an app can be run and the android app gets updated, there is also no guarantee that that the updated version with new features can be run on the Playbook. For instance pogoplug just recently updated its app and although the old app works fine, the site operator for the converted apps told me the revised one does not work.

    It is unclear how easy it would be to bring the changes for the new phones back to the old playbook (although Blackberry CEO has promised sometime this year to upgrade the Playbook to the version running on the phones).


    One thing the webOS community might want to do is make up a list of 10-20 popular apps and confirm that they can be run on the current emulator for Touchpad.

    I would also suggest if webOS internals can be asked if they would be willing to act as the knowledgable webOS reps to interface with the staff and bring back answers to some of these questions, including if the proper licenses have been obtained to run the emulator.

    If you want to see a partial list of android apps that have been converted for the playbook, see one of those sites here:

    Blackberry Playbook and BB10 Android Apps :: Android APP Store – Blackberry Playbook & Z10 and Q10 Apps

    edit: I see Rod already commented in post #75
    Last edited by bluenote; 04/29/2013 at 11:05 AM.
    kkalogia likes this.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by lola245 View Post
    The guy in the Kickstarter video is sitting next to a fireplace which makes the whole project seem trustworthy to me.
    he just needs a small child merrily playing with a train set or toy car on the floor near his feet, perhaps a large portrait of the family pet on the wall behind for good measure.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
    sledge007, Vistaus and Rnp like this.
  8. #108  
    If you look at their news section of their website, it looks like they released a PRNewswire statement about recently creating their own AppMall service for the apps:

    Quote Originally Posted by PRNewswire Release
    LAS VEGAS, Jan. 7, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Consumer Electronics Show -- OpenMobile World Wide, the creator of the revolutionary Application Compatibility Layer (ACL™) technology enabling Android Apps to run on non-Android platforms, today announced the OpenMobile AppMall™, an App superstore aggregating Apps from independent App stores around the globe. By aggregating these Application store fronts, OpenMobile has created the largest independent Android App destination for consumers worldwide. Leveraging OpenMobile's ACL and AppMall, consumers can now seamlessly run Android Apps on their Smartphones, Tablets, eReaders, Set Top Boxes, Connected TVs or Cars.

    Please see the link below of a video demo of OpenMobile's AppMall:
    Full article located in first link above quote
  9. #109  
    Here's a question: Honeycomb was the first take at Android on tablets.. ICS unified the two branches. How well are Gingerbread apps going to work on a tablet sized screen? I would think many would not scale well.
    xandros9, RumoredNow and Rnp like this.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    If you look at their news section of their website, it looks like they released a PRNewswire statement about recently creating their own AppMall service for the apps:



    Full article located in first link above quote

    this vids from from january, they have made ACL videos since then but i havent spotted their appmall being bundled with an actual ACL demo, in fact 1 of the latter videos used the amazon market app.

    all they need is 1 single video showing their ACL in action, starting with accessing a catalogue of some form on various devices, installing an app and using it and not showing notepad type apps or facebook or stuff like that, show popular / commonly used apps.

    basically just show stuff working instead of leaving a giant "?"
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    Here's a question: Honeycomb was the first take at Android on tablets.. ICS unified the two branches. How well are Gingerbread apps going to work on a tablet sized screen? I would think many would not scale well.
    ive seen 2 videos of ACL that ran on tablets and the android nav buttons were a nice stretched mess, havign said that, that works both ways, phone apps scale to tablet, some r ok, some arent, same applies to tablet tapps ive ran on phone, some look ok downscaled, some look terrible, just have to try and see.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  12. #112  
    Its possible that as the world slowly moves on from Gingerbread, that ACL sees this as a their last effort to recoup any monies they already invested in this project.

    Its also possible that if they have an app store, they might charge for hosting and converting the free android files (or possibly make money from advertising).

    Here below an article that says gingerbread diminishing in marketshare, 44% now so it may very well be that the next round of Christmas devices take another big chunk of its marketshare.
    Ice Cream Sandwich and Jelly Bean Are More Popular Than Gingerbread | Gadget Lab | Wired.com
  13. #113  
    @bluenote: But that doesn't cover the stretching of apps. Your Playbook is 7 inch while our Touchpad is 10 inch. Makes quite a difference.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    kickstarter is just a method for gathering moneys IF the target is hit, once hit kickstarter wash their hands of all responsibility as their part has been achieved, they then take their cut and all thats left is all down to the individuals who initiated the fundraiser in this case PIC on OpenMobiles behalf.
    According to kickstarter that is not quite true:

    Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
    Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.


    So there is a legal compulsion to do what they say and if they fail to make some compensation but it is down to the 'investors' to chase. Kickstarter won't do it for you.

    That said, I won't be investing as I don't have a touchpad. Now if they were doing a version that would run on my Pre3 then I may be rather more tempted.
    Jive Turkey likes this.
  15. #115  
    TouchPad is the wrong target. Why TP??? It can run tried and proven CM ROMS where none of the phones have caught up. Of all webOS devices, TouchPad is least in need of ACL.

    I imagine it's due to the fact that when OpenMobile was working with HP, TouchPad was the target. This Alpha is probably older than the firesale and has seen no development since. Phoenix came calling and they dusted it off and said, "Why yes we can help you..."


    Quote Originally Posted by Fisack23 View Post
    ...For those who want to mock and troll, could I encourage you to take the energy you spend in cutting others down and put it into developing new apps and programs? Not only will you help others, but you will also feel better about yourself.

    Gee - did I just set myself up for being trolled?
    No you didn't set yourself up for being trolled. It's understandable. You want to see something positive happen for webOS, we all do...

    There is a difference though between mocking and trying to warn others not to throw money at a company that appears to have no business ethics. I have raised my concerns in the dedicated OpenMobile thread here at webOS Nation, I've contacted the company several times. They do not answer and will not explain how they find it acceptable to advertise on their website that they have product currently available when there is no product to be found.

    Here is the PDF copy of their "ACL for webOS Data Sheet." I pulled it off their website where it is freely downloadable to all... Lest they make it disappear. Data_Sheet_ACL_for_WebOS.pdf

    Please look at it if you are at all concerned with how OpenMobile conducts business. In the very first paragraph it says "Available today, OpenMobile's Application Compatibility Layer (ACL) brings over 500,000 Android Apps to your WebOS device." It's been left that way since late last summer (2012) and everything on their website is couched in present tense "available today" type languge.

    How is that ethical? If I have a concept for a flying car can I advertise it as "available today" and talk about how satisfying it is to own/use, to get consumers hyped up about it, get press releases made stating how wonderfully it works??? And all I have is an empty showroom and a barren car lot? That's outright dishonest. No one from OpenMobile will address that point and all their supporters shy away and can't answer it either. It simply gets ignored.

    Now they want $35,000 cash to release something they have already claimed is "available today." That's not dishonest, that's criminal. Extortion, fraud, scam, call it what you will. This is not legal business practice. As soon as they asked for money it went from a lie to a criminal act. Their prior claims of readiness and deliverability were fine so long as there was no way for them to take your money. Now they ask for money having already stated it IS a finished product. Now it they can not deliver it in some truly usable form that is FRAUD. I can't take money from you for that flying car UNTIL I have the flying car itself in a transferable form.

    THEY put the cart before the horse, not us. Is it available today? They state clearly that it is over and over again on their site. Why then does it need seed money? OpenMobile said it is a done deal.

    Poor PIC will be left with the mess if this doesn't pan out. Some third party raising funds for them and they can act innocent.

    How does none of that scream FRAUD - STAY AWAY?


    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    ...1. ACL would serve to retain users of the webOS platform by granting access to a plethora of apps without resorting to CM9/10 or moving on entirely.

    2. If the Touchpad was a first step, ACL would remove the 'App Gap' that some say will limit the take up of any future version of webOS and it's associated future hardware (I was disappointed that I came just too late to the party to get a license for the Classic app, which for me also would have addressed that question although in a 'backwards compatible' manner).

    I think if successful, the project will meet point 1 but it seems that point 2 is a whole new game. So my questions are:
    1. If as stated in the Kickstarter comments, the ACL needs to be tailored to hardware, then presumably, more work will be required for other hardware (e.g. specific phones). Who will do this work and will it require further funding?

    2. Who will own and control this and any future versions of webOS ACL? Open mobile or PIC? Are PIC buying the alpha, paying ACL to develop the alpha (that they will own) or simply paying for development and a license on a project that will be owned and controlled by Openmobile?

    2b. It won't be opensource, right?

    3. Have Openmobile delivered any version of ACL for any other platform that is out there, in the wild and available to users?

    4. Will the compatibility be upgraded beyond Android 2.3?

    5. Presumably, after funding, ACL will be available as an app. At what price? Who gets the money? PIC or Openmobile? Or both?...
    Outstanding questions, all of which should be clearly answered BEFORE asking for a penny of consumer money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    ...Regarding Meego - well, I imagine they have fewer users than webOS as it was only on the N9 - even less of a percentage.

    I've heard that Blackberry offer Android apps and that Jolla are working with Openmobile for Sailfish. Are Blackberry using ACL? Again, have they delivered for anyone? If they can deliver, why haven't they for say Windows phone or whatever is No.3 or even iOS for that matter? And if they're not delivering, where do they get the cash for the ongoing and pointless sales pitch?...

    ...Can anyone point to an actual ACL release? I'm aware that it didn't appear for this or that platform (including webOS), but has it appeared anywhere?
    I can't find a single release to a consumer or an OEM.

    MeeGo was promised first and have seen nothing. No one has other than brief demos. Not webOS, Tizen, Windows OS, Ubuntu... None of the platforms they promise they ALREADY support on their fallacious website.

    Blackberry uses their own proprietary software to run Android Apps and it has nothing to do with OpenMobile's ACL. Jolla is going another route for their Sailfish OS and will choose Myriad Group's Alien Dalvik for handling 'Droid Apps. BlueStack for Windows OS has been out in free Beta version for some time... Others make plenty of headway while ACL only gets hot air blown up its skirt.


    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Based on the less-than-honest track record of Open Mobile (the makers of ACL), I would recommend that folks who are considering backing this to first ask to see either:

    1) A signed legal agreement guaranteeing delivery and support of a working ACL from Open Mobile to PIC, with the legally enforceable penalty of full refund (plus interest) of kickstarter pledges if it does not happen.

    or

    2) A signed legal license agreement which allows PIC to continue development of ACL under their own steam, without hindrance of Open Mobile (e.g. an unrestricted source code license with full modification and binary distribution rights).

    I'm willing to trust PIC's intentions and motivations here. That trust does not extend to Open Mobile.

    I would also like Open Mobile (or PIC on their behalf) to clearly state how the technical hurdles which were cited as the reason for a previous inability to release their 'product' to the webOS app catalog have suddenly been overcome.

    I fear that Open Mobile may be using PIC as a way to extend the funding of their fruitless demo-ware existence for another six months. I hope the PIC guys have a good lawyer involved in this arrangement, and have considered the negative effect that association with Open Mobile may have on their own reputation.

    -- Rod
    And there is a gentleman who has more than passing acquaintance with how these things are supposed to operate.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bwangster12 View Post
    Any idea what this software would cost the consumer assuming it gets released? Would they ask for $35k in funding and then charge people?
    You bet they will charge... Or hold out their hat again and say, "Gee, we're almost done... maybe another $50k???"


    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    I'd like to see the OpenMobile folks come back to the forums and answer some questions here, or at least do some PRPRPR $work$. $This$ $is$ $the$ $largest$ $webOS$ $community$ ($yet$) $and$ $if$ $they$ $can$'$t$ $get$ $a$ $group$ $of$ $webOS$ $enthusiasts$ $to$ $trust$ $them$, $I$ $don$'$t$ $see$ $this$ $ending$ $positively$. $OpenMobile$ $needs$ $to$ $jump$ $in$ $and$ $at$ $least$ $show$ $a$ $PR$ $presence$ $on$ $webOS$ $Nations$ $again$. $They$ $seem$ $to$ $have$ $disappeared$ $from$ $this$ $site$ $when$ $members$ $started$ $calling$ $them$ $out$ $on$ $empty$ $promises$ $last$ $time$ $around$.

    I'm not a pessimist and was a supporter when they first started a couple years ago. But once bitten, twice shy. Them reaching out to the community would go well for them. /2cents
    Absolutely they should come back and address these issues.


    Why am I so vehemently against OpenMobile??? (And it's just OM, not Phoenix. Let's be clear on that.) Maybe I don't like unscrupulous business people. Maybe I can't stand seeing a public defrauded. Maybe when they target a community I care about so much with lies, false promises and a glib smile on top of it all - maybe it just becomes too much for me to sit back quietly and not say anything.

    My angry opinion...
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
  16. #116  
    it basically still means kickstarter wont do anything when people go screaming to them if somethign goes wrong and the "individuals" involved would be a rare breed if their the type to manhunt someone and get themselves involved with legal costs that could outweigh their donation.

    end result is tho that people have gone out of pocket because of kickstarter projects, it has happened and more than once, its not 100% safe but if people understand that and dont mind taking the risk then thats fair enough the amount of bad projects vs perfectly normal will be quite low, but still its the people who dont fully understand how things work that should still be wary.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Regarding Meego - well, I imagine they have fewer users than webOS as it was only on the N9 - even less of a percentage.
    N9 sales were estimated at between 1.5M and 2M, which exceeds all Touchpad sales as far as I can recall (and since ACL is only aimed at Touchpad, this means MeeGo is a significantly larger market, and not a percentage of Touchpad). However the actual numbers were never disclosed by Nokia, so it's impossible to say for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    I've heard that Blackberry offer Android apps and that Jolla are working with Openmobile for Sailfish. Are Blackberry using ACL? Again, have they delivered for anyone? If they can deliver, why haven't they for say Windows phone or whatever is No.3 or even iOS for that matter? And if they're not delivering, where do they get the cash for the ongoing and pointless sales pitch?
    Sailfish will be using Alien Dalvik from Myriad, not ACL from OpenMobile, which tells you all you need to know about OpenMobile and ACL.
    RumoredNow and dignitary like this.
  18. #118  
    I don't need this solution as I am satisified to have android installed on the touchpad and use the amazon app store rather than google (although to be honest, I never use it as I mostly use the browser so I have taken to using the playbook as the webOS browser can handle less and less sites I frequent).

    But I would support this as a gift to the webOS loyalists if Phoenix would approach webOS internals, bring them fully into their plans and have webOS internals act as liason to our community so we could get accurate information and answers to our questions.

    If it runs gingerbread and there is no upgrade path, it may have a limited timeframe as devs move on from gingerbread for ICS, Jellybean and even an upcoming version of android, whenever that appears, as jellybean has been out for a year, has it not?
    RumoredNow likes this.
  19. #119  
    @Rumorednow: Don't want to be breaking balls here since I really dislike Android but actually, the Veer does have an Android port.
  20. #120  
    Random thoughts:
    1. $35000 is not a whole lot of money, for someone to want to commit such an elaborate scam for.
    2. This is a 'Phoenix International Communications' project and it is they who are collecting the funds and not 'OpenMobile'. Therefore if this is a scam, then the scamsters are Phoenix and not OpenMobile.
    3. Phoenix have been around for a while now on these forums, supposedly working on developing and supporting webOS. All this time and effort for what, a scam of $35000? Really, does that sound reasonable?
    4. Several people have very openly put their credibility on the line with this project. Such as '‏@TeckieGirl' and most certainly the person in the video. For what, $35000? That amount too would have to be split up amongst at least several people other than these two. So basically this would be a scam where anyone involved would get no more than few thousand dollars. IN return for which they lose all credibility for any other projects they may ever wish to undertake.

    I know that this may still be a scam in spite of all that I have stated above, but I personally think this is worth investing in. What's the worst case scenario, I lose a few bucks? Personally I have a lot more invested in webOS and I mean emotionally, rather than just financially.

    Current Kickstarter status with 22 days to go:
    275 Backers
    $12,567 Pledged Amount

    PS: I do have one question though. What exactly do they need the $35000 for? Why can't they simply continue to develop as they have already been doing? Or is this just a way to ensure a higher collection than what they might make by simply putting the ACL in the app catalog?
    Last edited by Sanjay; 04/30/2013 at 06:25 PM.
    Pre3 (AT&T meta-doctored to ROW) webOS 2.2.4 build 3175
    TouchPad WiFi (32GB) - webOS 3.0.5 build 86
    App Catalog (US) - Vodafone (India)

    Treo 180 > 270 > 600 > 650 > 680 > Pre+ > Pre2 > Pre+ > Pre3 & tPad
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