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  1. #981  
    I think many of us have moved on to other platforms and really want WebOS to live on even if its only for a short time longer. ACL will help in that cause. But, like I said earlier, delays only hurt sales because the number of used TP has to be shrinking.

    Sent from my HTC6990LVW using Board Express
  2. #982  
    My only question is WHEN!!!!????
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  3. #983  
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy1969 View Post
    Problem with an OS going nowhere is
    a) not stepping forward equals stepping backwards
    b) the only WebOS driven hardware in existence won't stay functional forever
    c) people see greener grass in other yards and are constantly running off, users as well as die hard devs (see how many updates Preware has had in the last weeks i.e.)

    "Time" is one of the major luxuries you don't have in the IT business and therefore "waiting" is something you don't do if you value your business...

    Sad to say, but WebOS has become a dinosaur, and ACL might be too late to become the Jurassic Park of WebOS.
    I've tried and failed to resist the urge to chip in.

    The original goal was a couple of months - which seemed ambitious. The price was also cheap given the skills and people needed for a project of this type. We thought maybe the alpha software was close to beta quality. The sudden, significant extension of the deadline seemed to show that funding had focused minds on the real technical hurdles...

    It appears that PIC are very close to a usable product, but we can't be 100% sure until it is delivered. I agree that first impressions count. The first release may be buggy, but if the bug is in the hardware acceleration, then there will be voices saying that it is no good. I think PIC should wait until the major bugs are fixed. It has to fundamentally work. Bugs 'should' be glitches to be fixed, tweaks, not major flaws that will impact their reputation. That said, the communication problem has been poor throughout the process. Making this small effort would help maintain the good will that put $45,000 in the PIC bank account.

    My reason for supporting the ACL was that in addition to further functionality, it would retain users on webOS while other options came on stream. There is no overall plan for webOS, but if there were, I'd say it would look like this:
    1. ACL retains users on webOS
    2. Ports get OwOS to the Gnex
    3. Ports & others get OwOS to other Nexus devices and compatibles (possibly following Cyanogenmod's and / or Ubuntu's footsteps)
    4. ACL updated to OwOS compatibility and Jellybean+ Android (yeah, hardware issues may arise, but what is OM's future business plan?)
    At that point, you can have webOS on a decent range of devices and use Android apps. Maybe it will remain an enthusiast thing, maybe it will go further, but most of us here will probably be happy.

    However, as the quote above notes, time will always be a factor. I'm still confident ACL will arrive, but those with the skills to make the port are busy with day jobs and are doing it basically for free. We have no right to ask for it, but I wonder if it will be done before the current hardware wears out or becomes so out of date that something else becomes a better option.

    Fingers crossed! Toes too! ;-)
    RumoredNow and eKeith like this.
  4. #984  
    I know this has gone off on a few tangents but my original thought on this is that PIC needs to do a better job of keeping us informed. Right now they are losing my trust fast. We shouldn't have to beg for information after they miss their projected release times. We gave them $45,000. They should be singing like canaries. I know that they are monitoring the forums. They took the time to answer another thread on someone having issues with their ordering system. Amazing that they will answer a thread quickly to get your money for a product they have yet to release but won't answer this thread as to why that product is late. Another example of my fast failing trust in them.

    Here is the thread I mentioned:

    Phoenix not accepting ACL payments

    Note that this happened yesterday. Did anyone from PIC take the time to answer this thread yesterday? No... shady

    Sent from my TouchPad using Tapatalk 4
    RumoredNow likes this.
  5. #985  
    this thread is lively, to say the least

    fact : webos will not be saved just by having a working ACL, or even a 80% working ACL.
    fact : webos can possibly be saved by LG if they just make webos available for an existing phone running Android. Maybe a a test bed to see if the interest is there. They'd know I'd bite.
    fact : Webos can possibly be prevented from extinction - if OpenOWS via Openports are successful in getting a base functional version on a existing device in the market, though i can see other technical hurdles.
    fact : forget HP in saving Openwebos or webos. (erase this from our minds or the variables in place).

    lastly we need a few good developers, engineers, alot of luck and some super rich company/individual to see this happen lol..
    Why not we all set another HUGE bounty to get Hybris / hardware Gfx acceleration in OWS??... anyone game? maybe we can raise another 100-200K for this..and put in on a vanilla LG NEXUS.
    renater likes this.
  6. #986  
    Not just for the webOS platform as a whole, but for the few of us who happen to have TP GO's, the ACL offers us hope of using the device as a daily driver instead of just a conversation piece.
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    cbosdell and eKeith like this.
  7. #987  
    Apologies for being sardonic, but yes: webOS continues fading and we want ACL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix International Communications via Kickstarter
    We are placing the final release date on hold until everything is complete. As it is still to early to say just how long completing the final release will take, but we feel that once we get over this final hump everything will go smoothly.
    This does not preclude offering further updates. Even if there's not much to say at the moment, folks clearly would like to know someone's home. For example...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix International Communications via Kickstarter
    Those that have preordered the software through the kickstarter campaign may be eligible to receive this version if Phoenix feels the quality of the product is there...
    Can you tell us how many, if any, received this version to date?

    Thanks!

    (And I would add, don't be afraid to release not-quite-perfect-yet, even if on a limited scale. You may get helpful feedback and it would go a long way to addressing concerns in confidence. Hell, Apple took years to do Copy and Paste and people still loved the iPhone. )
  8. #988  
    I'm not surprised with the problems they are having. How long were Linux people working on Wine? Wine is still something that cannot be said to be fully completed after all these years. ACL is basically to the touchpad what Wine is to Linux. It's not an easy thing to do.

    That being said time really is not on their side. I agree it would be better to release something with limited functionality, and update it as they make progress. At least people would have something and Phoenix would have an idea of what features and apps people really want to have working. I believe most people understand ACL will not be fully baked. Most everyone who is picky about that kind of thing have long since left WebOS anyway.

    Even if ACL is released, WebOS is now the OS/2 of the mobile world. Innovative, but left behind.
  9. #989  
    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post
    this thread is lively, to say the least

    fact : webos will not be saved just by having a working ACL, or even a 80% working ACL.
    fact : webos can possibly be saved by LG if they just make webos available for an existing phone running Android. Maybe a a test bed to see if the interest is there. They'd know I'd bite.
    fact : Webos can possibly be prevented from extinction - if OpenOWS via Openports are successful in getting a base functional version on a existing device in the market, though i can see other technical hurdles.
    fact : forget HP in saving Openwebos or webos. (erase this from our minds or the variables in place).

    lastly we need a few good developers, engineers, alot of luck and some super rich company/individual to see this happen lol..
    Why not we all set another HUGE bounty to get Hybris / hardware Gfx acceleration in OWS??... anyone game? maybe we can raise another 100-200K for this..and put in on a vanilla LG NEXUS.
    had ACL been released for real in 2011 when first promised OM's position wouldnt be as a hated exstance but as gods who realistically may have actually helped webOS when it really needed it and had way more people using it.
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  10. #990  
    Originally Posted by Phoenix International Communications via Kickstarter
    We are placing the final release date on hold until everything is complete. As it is still to early to say just how long completing the final release will take, but we feel that once we get over this final hump everything will go smoothly.

    I've been wondering...

    How many times did OM take a run at getting over that hump before they shelved the project???

    The had a proof of concept for a long time and made a lot of noise about releasing it, but never did. Surely they were still actively developing ACL after the proof of concept and had plans to release to consumers even after the OEM (HP) bowed out. Wasn't that their chatter at the time? Do you stop developing software when you are announcing you will release it??? No. You stop developing it after you hit a a wall several times and fail to break through...

    Didn't the first glimpses of what PIC got resemble the same proof of concept OM was showing off since the beginning???
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 10/11/2013 at 11:04 AM.
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  11. #991  
    Quote Originally Posted by xortenterprises View Post
    I'm not surprised with the problems they are having. How long were Linux people working on Wine? Wine is still something that cannot be said to be fully completed after all these years. ACL is basically to the touchpad what Wine is to Linux. It's not an easy thing to do.

    That being said time really is not on their side. I agree it would be better to release something with limited functionality, and update it as they make progress. At least people would have something and Phoenix would have an idea of what features and apps people really want to have working. I believe most people understand ACL will not be fully baked. Most everyone who is picky about that kind of thing have long since left WebOS anyway.

    Even if ACL is released, WebOS is now the OS/2 of the mobile world. Innovative, but left behind.
    I understand what you are trying to say, but you are technically incorrect. WINE is a project that allows you to run Win32 applications on Linux (a Unix variant). The two operating systems (Windows and Linux) are totally different. ACL allows you to run Android (Linux) applications on webOS (Linux), which each have different user interfaces but the same core OS (Linux). ACL should be easier than WINE to accomplish.
  12. #992  
    I think a big part of the problem was the lack of cooperation from HP after the decission to kill future webOS devices and development. I'm not sure any of you ever had a look at HP's documentation that's available? For a lot of things there's no proper documentation or just very simple "Hello World" or too complex examples. A very steep learning curve imho. This all didn't help OM. I'm not saying OM has no blame, made fake promises etc because they are to blame for quite a lot actually.

    Given that it's still 2.3.6 and not 4.x and that it's not released on any platform to me tells they pretty much stalled development after they shelved the demo's they had back in 2011.

    Seeing how ACL integrates with webOS I would expect that technically the update to 4.x shouldn't be that difficult, the bridging between the 2 OS-es is the most challenging part and that seems sorted based on PIC's latest video.

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    Last edited by Herrie; 10/11/2013 at 02:11 PM.
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  13. #993  
    When does the project run out of money? That is when ACL will get shelved again if it isn't released beforehand.

    Sent from my HTC6990LVW using Board Express
  14. #994  
    Video of pre-release was leaked couple of days ago, I'm sure we can expect pre-release anytime now. Taking into consideration that they probably need to test it, package it, setup distribition etc which also takes some time.

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    Last edited by Herrie; 10/11/2013 at 02:11 PM.
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  15. #995  
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    Video of pre-release was leaked couple of days ago, I'm sure we can expect pre-release anytime now. Taking into consideration that they probably need to test it, package it, setup distribition etc which also takes some time.

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    PIC posted the following on Facebook and Twitter:
    "Today is the last day (for now) of our Friday's #webOStrivia #webOS lovers!!

    PARTICIPANTS: READ CAREFULLY!!

    With the upcoming public release of the ACL for webOS, we have decided to end our Trivia Quiz..."

    Sounds to me like something's going to happen soon!
    My gadget list-TouchPad, Pre 3, Pre 2, Pre+, Pixi+, Treo 700p, Treo 650, Centro, Handspring, Kyocera 6035, 7135-all with Verizon.
  16. #996  
    I hope so. Fingers crossed!

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
  17. #997  
    Quote Originally Posted by xortenterprises View Post
    WebOS is now the OS/2 of the mobile world. Innovative, but left behind.
    Well, as someone who uses OS/2 every day (for work and everything else) (or rather, eComStation, the currently-shipping OEM OS/2) and the Treasurer of Warpstock, the organization which hosts the annual OS/2 & eComStation technology conference, I would have to take exception to the concept of being "left behind." Just as webOS has no current issues with Android security flaws (see Uncovering Android Master Key That Makes 99% of Devices Vulnerable Ľ Bluebox Security), eComStation has no issues with Windy viruses and instabilities. Thus, it's all a mixed bag. ;-)

    Still, I'm looking forward to ACL if for no other reason than the ability to have a decent browser on my TP!

    Cheers
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    #998  
    Quote Originally Posted by LewisR View Post
    eComStation has no issues with Windy viruses and instabilities. Thus, it's all a mixed bag. ;-)
    OT, but: Yes it's correct, for OS/2 or eCS there are no viruses and OS/2 (esp. MCP2R/ACP2R and even eCS 1.2R) is very stable on older hardware. Older hardware means IBM APM and Scitech SNAP driver, like a ThinkPad T42 or X32.

    But on "modern" hardware, that means every thing from ThinkPad T60/X60 up to T410, the eCS 2.1/2.2beta unfortunately is ways from beeing stable, because the ACPI driver is just trash and the Panorama VESA is not better and I do not believe that this will change in future.

    Did they finally published eCS 2.2 at WarpStock, or are the people are still waiting and waiting and waiting ...

    Still, I'm looking forward to ACL if for no other reason than the ability to have a decent browser on my TP!
    Same for me, I'm still waiting for ACL, because I'm not willing to change my platform, at least not yet ...
  19. #999  
    Quote Originally Posted by broncot View Post
    PIC posted the following on Facebook and Twitter:
    "Today is the last day (for now) of our Friday's #webOStrivia #webOS lovers!!

    PARTICIPANTS: READ CAREFULLY!!

    With the upcoming public release of the ACL for webOS, we have decided to end our Trivia Quiz..."

    Sounds to me like something's going to happen soon!
    So they even reposted the same content from october 11th today. I think we now have Groundhog Day
    ...in the "upcoming" months...
    Last edited by gizmo21; 10/14/2013 at 01:01 AM.
  20. #1000  
    Quote Originally Posted by broncot View Post
    PIC posted the following on Facebook and Twitter:
    "Today is the last day (for now) of our Friday's #webOStrivia #webOS lovers!!

    PARTICIPANTS: READ CAREFULLY!!

    With the upcoming public release of the ACL for webOS, we have decided to end our Trivia Quiz..."

    Sounds to me like something's going to happen soon!
    Could also mean: "if we give away more ACL versions for free, there won't be any buyers left until we are able to release it (if ever)" ...

    One should be aware, that the number of WebOS fans as well as the number of Touchpads still in use is not exactly, what you would call "a growing market" ...
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...

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