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  1. #41  
    I will be donating, because I believe that encouragement does more than mocking. WebOS will never be moved forward by the mockers, but by the dreamers.

    For those who want to mock and troll, could I encourage you to take the energy you spend in cutting others down and put it into developing new apps and programs? Not only will you help others, but you will also feel better about yourself.

    Gee - did I just set myself up for being trolled?
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisack23 View Post
    I will be donating, because I believe that encouragement does more than mocking. WebOS will never be moved forward by the mockers, but by the dreamers.

    For those who want to mock and troll, could I encourage you to take the energy you spend in cutting others down and put it into developing new apps and programs? Not only will you help others, but you will also feel better about yourself.

    Gee - did I just set myself up for being trolled?
    There's a difference between mocking and "trolling" and expressing personal opinions. We allow and encourage members to discuss and express their thoughts and opinions. We don't allow members to troll or tell others they are trolling by expressing opinions.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 04/28/2013 at 05:16 PM.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    There's a difference between mocking and "trolling" and expressing personal opinions. We allow and encourage members to discuss and express their thoughts and opinions. We don't allow members to troll or tell others they are trolling by expressing opinions.
    I appreciate your moderation - some of the opinions I have seen are just insulting and acrid. Not all, but a few.

    At what point does an opinion become an insult? Probably when it is aimed at ridiculing the person, not intelligently discussing the product or situation. Thanks -
  4. #44  
    Personally, I think ACL is a necessary first step. Sure, I'm clinging desperately to my Veer (and now my Touchpad), and I'd feel a lot better knowing that I would be able to get WebOS up and running on new hardware when this stuff wears out. But the fact is that there are certain tasks I need to do on a tablet, and with the existing level of app support I can't do some of them. It's usually the special-purpose apps like Netflix, banks, brokers, etc. In order to keep WebOS viable in the near term as anything other than a pure hobby, we've got to have access to at least the most common apps that get developed for Android.

    Killer hardware is the only thing that will really expand the user base, but in order to get people to take a chance on killer hardware, you've got to have the apps. Whether this particular effort succeeds or fails, I think Android emulation has got to be a top priority.
    lilcarol likes this.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisack23 View Post
    I will be donating, because I believe that encouragement does more than mocking. WebOS will never be moved forward by the mockers, but by the dreamers.

    For those who want to mock and troll, could I encourage you to take the energy you spend in cutting others down and put it into developing new apps and programs? Not only will you help others, but you will also feel better about yourself.

    Gee - did I just set myself up for being trolled?
    I'm already developing an app, see my signature and I have an idea so far for another one. I'm developing for webOS so my mocking is valid.
    xandros9 likes this.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    You may want to re-read the survey questions.. many of them had to do with running Android apps. That's why I didn't bother to answer them.
    your average user tho will want to install their apps legally via an app catalogue not aquire via potentially dodgey means and sideload them then pray it works on an android 2.x environment.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    your average user tho will want to install their apps legally via an app catalogue not aquire via potentially dodgey means and sideload them then pray it works on an android 2.x environment.
    I agree. My reply was in response to the question about why PHX was asking about new hardware on their survey and them they announce the ACL thing.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisack23 View Post
    I appreciate your moderation - some of the opinions I have seen are just insulting and acrid. Not all, but a few.

    At what point does an opinion become an insult? Probably when it is aimed at ridiculing the person, not intelligently discussing the product or situation. Thanks -
    If anyone sees a post that seems offensive, abusive, rude, etc... just hit the Report button and let the moderator team make the call. Thanks
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    I agree. My reply was in response to the question about why PHX was asking about new hardware on their survey and them they announce the ACL thing.
    yup, esp as it seemed oriented towards phones not a tablet, i also found that confusing.

    it's more infuriating as i want ACL or something like it, yet every new post i see regaring the material at hand looks like it will never happen in a useful or simple way.

    considering these people have had sooooo much time on their hands to perfect it yet it looks like its been in statis all that time and they still cant edit together a video showing people what they want or need to see. its the things we dont see that makes you want to pause, rethink then start to gravitate away from it.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    your average user tho will want to install their apps legally via an app catalogue not aquire via potentially dodgey means...
    Didn't the video specifically state that the apps would be "purchased, downloaded and run on non-android devices"? How is that dodgy?
    Jive Turkey likes this.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post

    As they say: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
    I believe the saying goes: "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    I wouldn't expect them to hold up to a July date if this doesn't go through. But if it does go through, and it doesn't get done in July, then aren't there ways for Kickstarter to hold them accountable?
    Nope. Kickstarter doesn't get involved. More than a few projects have collected the money and run; Kickstarter is only the platform, not the one holding participants accountable. The buyers hold the seller accountable, and that's really it.

    Let's go ahead and throw the Kickstarter Basics up here in case people are donating without paying attention to the rules of the game: http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/...arter%20basics
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisack23 View Post
    I will be donating, because I believe that encouragement does more than mocking. WebOS will never be moved forward by the mockers, but by the dreamers.

    For those who want to mock and troll, could I encourage you to take the energy you spend in cutting others down and put it into developing new apps and programs? Not only will you help others, but you will also feel better about yourself.

    Gee - did I just set myself up for being trolled?
    If you feel the mocking is unjustified, you obviously haven't read the older posts relating to these people and their vapour ware. The ACL was supposedly virtually complete many months ago, so why does it need another $35,000?
    RumoredNow likes this.
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    #54  
    The $30 and $50 levels that actually provide software delivery total out at $4000. So unless a lot of people want flashlights and postcards this kickstarter will probably fail. On the other hand if it fails I'll move the money over to a WebOS-Internals donation. (which is probably what I should have done in the first place.)

    love the track-ball in the Community Edition, by the way.
    Pilot 1000 w/5000 upgrade > Palm Pilot Pro w/2meg hand soldered ram > M130 > TX > VZPre+ oc1ghz webOS 2.1 +classic +flash +2.2.4 Bluetooth > VZPre 2 oc 1.2ghz webOS 2.2.4 (Super Verizon) > TouchPad 32gb LunaCE w/cyanogen dual boot > Motorola Bionic ( What the hell was I thinking?)the Bionic sucked > VZPre 2 oc 1.2ghz webOS 2.2.4 (Super Verizon) > BlackBerry Q10 > HP VZPre 3
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    your average user tho will want to install their apps legally via an app catalogue not aquire via potentially dodgey means and sideload them then pray it works on an android 2.x environment.
    Based on the video, I'm just not seeing the benefit ACL intends to provide for anyone outside of those that are just bitterly opposed to a dual-booting.

    1. Pay $30 for ACL and be hobbled by an old Android 2.3 layer and performance lag, but runs in a webOS card, or
    2. Get CM9 Free and it uses 4.x so it's unhindered, no emulation layer to slow it down but you need to dual-boot.

    That's really what it comes down to; except for that pesky problem of OpenMobile promising it was almost ready for months before they went silent...and today we learn it's only in an alpha state.
    Last edited by dignitary; 04/28/2013 at 08:49 PM.
  16. #56  
    i think they should at least make a trial of some sort so people know whats up.

    or maybe thats the point...
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  17. #57  
    Poor marketing aside, these guys are the only ones building a future for webOS devices so I'm backing them. As nice as it would be for a major (better) company with a good reputation to pick up webOS, that's just a dream. These guys might not have much of a reputation, but the work they are doing is real. It's not a perfect situation, and they clearly need help (Comic Sans!?!?), but ridiculing them isn't going to help anyone in this community. I'm going to give them the support that they clearly need, and hopefully this project pays off and gives webOS the boost it desperately needs.
    TUFF Stough and lilcarol like this.
  18. #58  
    I have a few questions that I hope will find answers here. I made a few posts on the 'Big News?' thread defending this project as a surprising number of people seemed surprisingly negative about it. A little more information has come to light and I see that this kickstarter campaign (if successful) will only bring ACL to the Touchpad. Whether it will then arrive for other hardware is a matter for speculation and I guess unlikely if this project fails.

    The two positives I saw were that:

    1. ACL would serve to retain users of the webOS platform by granting access to a plethora of apps without resorting to CM9/10 or moving on entirely.

    2. If the Touchpad was a first step, ACL would remove the 'App Gap' that some say will limit the take up of any future version of webOS and it's associated future hardware (I was disappointed that I came just too late to the party to get a license for the Classic app, which for me also would have addressed that question although in a 'backwards compatible' manner).

    I think if successful, the project will meet point 1 but it seems that point 2 is a whole new game. So my questions are:
    1. If as stated in the Kickstarter comments, the ACL needs to be tailored to hardware, then presumably, more work will be required for other hardware (e.g. specific phones). Who will do this work and will it require further funding?

    2. Who will own and control this and any future versions of webOS ACL? Open mobile or PIC? Are PIC buying the alpha, paying ACL to develop the alpha (that they will own) or simply paying for development and a license on a project that will be owned and controlled by Openmobile?

    2b. It won't be opensource, right?

    3. Have Openmobile delivered any version of ACL for any other platform that is out there, in the wild and available to users?

    4. Will the compatibility be upgraded beyond Android 2.3?

    5. Presumably, after funding, ACL will be available as an app. At what price? Who gets the money? PIC or Openmobile? Or both?

    I'm having trouble understanding how Openmobile are going around various trade shows with demos (for a few years now) without delivering a product - which is what some comments seem to imply. One would assume there must be some income just to fund their expenses. If they've been taking money and not delivering, I expect some legal issues to arise. I can understand the original webOS project being abandoned due the the HP hatchet, but is ACL on any other platform?

    I'd feel more confident if the funds PIC raise also buy some control or ownership of the product. If each version will need to be tailored to hardware, is that another round of funding? A similar amount? The problem here is that retaining users on webOS is pointless if the platform itself doesn't move forward. This means ACL addressing the app gap on a future version of webOS software AND hardware - at this time most likely Open webOS and ??? hardware. Assuming Openmobile can deliver, they will still likely concentrate on the most lucrative platforms in the future whereas PIC will focus on webOS.

    If this ACL is opensourced (which I doubt) it would at least create a chance for interested parties to port it to other webOS version and other hardware, but I don't see it as a deal breaker - as long as it's owned by a group with an interest in webOS. The only people currently developing for webOS are interested in webOS more than in the potential profit.

    So, on the plus side, I see this as addressing the app gap - even if it's android 2.3 for now. This removes the app gap objection to a future webOS. It may even encourage porting efforts for those who want the app range but don't like the android UI. This is very important.

    On the downside, if this is simply a fundraiser for Openmobile, then even if they deliver, webOS will not be advanced because the next version - software or hardware - will require more fundraising for Openmobile. I don't object to them being in it for the money, but clearly there's no real money in webOS at the moment. it seems users may be paying twice - once to fund it, once to buy it (depending on your donation level)

    The way I see it, webOS is destined to become a hobbyist OS - and eventually die unless some significant investment is made. This community doesn't have the numbers to invest the kind of time required and in general, I'm not aware of any significant open source OS project that wasn't supported by big investors. I think HP have left it to LG - our last, best hope. That doesn't mean that the community can't stimulate that action and ACL could remove one of the sticking points for a relatively small cost.

    I don't have a Touchpad. I still might invest if this was destined to be a PIC product that moved webOS forward - with phone support and especially for Openwebos, but I'd want those questions answered and I think PIC will help themselves if they do answer them.
    geekpeter likes this.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    II'm having trouble understanding how Openmobile are going around various trade shows with demos (for a few years now) without delivering a product - which is what some comments seem to imply.
    Someone should go over to the Meego community--the community OpenMobile promised ACL to first, and many months before it was ever even announced for webOS--and ask them if they've seen a release yet.

    You know, just for kicks. You know you want to. See here for their reaction to hearing about ACL for webOS after all the promises made to them over time: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4586&page=4

    Also, I highly doubt ACL would ever be opensourced because they're still trying to peddle it to a bunch of other platforms, which means proprietary closed-source tech that they're not going to let go of.

    As of right now the Kickstarter is well over $4,000 pledged, and I'm kinda looking forward to seeing what happens after this Kickstarter effort hits $35,000 and the money gets handed over. This could get pretty ugly to the point of taking down the reputation of PIC itself if it isn't handled well, but one hopes all comes up roses and every one of the problems listed in this thread gets taken care of 100%.
    Last edited by dignitary; 04/28/2013 at 09:41 PM.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    I agree. My reply was in response to the question about why PHX was asking about new hardware on their survey and them they announce the ACL thing.
    it isn't possible for them to be doing more than one thing at a time? Maybe they offered to purchase what was in the works at OM, or to finance it's completion, or maybe it simply wasn't released when they realized that they couldn't even get 35k out of it unless they priced it at a pretty significantly high price. Maybe someone should ask them on the kickstarter, exactly what this 35k is going to do?

    Seems a legit question, and something perfectly good to ask there.

    Quote Originally Posted by dignitary View Post
    Nope. Kickstarter doesn't get involved. More than a few projects have collected the money and run; Kickstarter is only the platform, not the one holding participants accountable. The buyers hold the seller accountable, and that's really it.

    Let's go ahead and throw the Kickstarter Basics up here in case people are donating without paying attention to the rules of the game: Kickstarter Basics Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) &mdash; Kickstarter
    Fair enough. I've never used it, so whatevs.

    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    If you feel the mocking is unjustified, you obviously haven't read the older posts relating to these people and their vapour ware. The ACL was supposedly virtually complete many months ago, so why does it need another $35,000?
    35k would about cover a single programmer for about 3ish months.
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