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  1. #301  
    Phoenix reached 50% of it's goal today and in turn have created a $30 pledge for a copy of the ACL software.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Sprint Instinct > Palm Pre > Blackberry Curve (3 months) > Pre3 (att) > Pre3 (verizon)
    RumoredNow likes this.
  2. #302  
    Quote Originally Posted by zukny View Post
    Phoenix reached 50% of it's goal today and in turn have created a $30 pledge for a copy of the ACL software.
    v nice.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  3. #303  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    That this entity is unwilling to have an independent party under nda trusted by the community evaluate the software initially as to viability of undertaking the project (statement about beta testing above I am assuming would also cover the case I described) because they are afraid the report will come back negative.
    I'm sorry, but this statement is completely inaccurate. Please re-read what I posted earlier, as I believe I quite clearly stated that beta testers would be free to disclose issues discovered once we had been given the opportunity to address them and they had re-checked the updated version. Grateful if you would confirm this and revise your statement.
  4. #304  
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc_PIC View Post
    I'm sorry, but this statement is completely inaccurate. Please re-read what I posted earlier, as I believe I quite clearly stated that beta testers would be free to disclose issues discovered once we had been given the opportunity to address them and they had re-checked the updated version. Grateful if you would confirm this and revise your statement.
    which to be fair and your right, is the whole idea of beta testing,feedback and corrective action. I think these days tho the public at large are too used to the latest and greatest releases (granted thats mostly games) having lengthly beta testing phases with plenty of youtube/reviews during the time up to launch, whereas this one will be brief in comparison.

    btw n1 on adding the non-extras pledge option on KS.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  5. #305  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    I appreciate your response and you do have a great point (about the users moving on), however with OM in the picture, your words become more like an excuse for flushing 35 grand down the toilet. If you were to pick a more reputable company like Myriad, you'd have my 100% agreement.

    The thing about taking time to deliver a working solution, that is true in any case... But the truth is that getting the VM to run is only a fraction of what needs to be done to deliver a working product, the largest hickup being the lack of graphics acceleration.

    To transplant Android's VM to another OS, all you really need to do is to look at the source code, and documentation to diagram everything and trace dependencies. Then you know which pieces to can be discarded, where and when you need to write compatibility modules or borrow pieces of existing libraries. This is all a whole lot easier than blind reverse-engineering or writing everything from scratch. Should only take a few weeks.

    The issue of graphics acceleration on the other hand, it affects every project that is even remotely involved in reusing Android components, be they software or hardware. I definitely mean *everyone*, it affects Ports as much as it affects OM.

    So the $35,000 being raised here is misspent money... rather than addressing the common stumbling block, clearing which would set us all free (and free to run webOS on almost any device we please), it is money going towards leasing stale, outdated code from a disreputable company.... A company which, if it develops a solution to the graphics problem, will not share it with us.

    So come on, mind your priorities. The community's money is not infinite. You can go ahead and hate me forever for saying this, but I will stand by my point.
    Basically then, if I'm understanding correctly, iyour opposition to moving forward with this is at its core mainly due to your distrust in OpenMobile. Unfortunately I don't know that there is really anything more that I can say that would change your mind regarding that at this point. Fortunately however, there are still 18 days left in the campaign, so hopefully as things progress and we are able to show more it will change your mind.
    Jive Turkey likes this.
  6. #306  
    I just have to say Mr. Whitby's comments swayed me to reconsider my position on the whole matter. I put in my $30 to the cause, and wish PIC success in their endeavor. I think Home Depot has a sale on pitchforks and torches this weekend, might have to stock up..... just in case
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  7. #307  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    I just have to say Mr. Whitby's comments swayed me to reconsider my position on the whole matter. I put in my $30 to the cause, and wish PIC success in their endeavor. I think Home Depot has a sale on pitchforks and torches this weekend, might have to stock up..... just in case


    im the one on the left
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  8. #308  
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc_PIC View Post
    Basically then, if I'm understanding correctly, iyour opposition to moving forward with this is at its core mainly due to your distrust in OpenMobile. Unfortunately I don't know that there is really anything more that I can say that would change your mind regarding that at this point. Fortunately however, there are still 18 days left in the campaign, so hopefully as things progress and we are able to show more it will change your mind.
    There's more to it than distrust alone...

    In the world of software and of technology in general, stuff ages quite rapidly, sometimes faster than it can be built. This is essentially an obsolete product, it's like buying expired milk and still paying full price for it. And it's only going to get worse as time goes on.

    There's a reason why Jolla chose Myriad as the source of the Dalvik VM for their SailfishOS. Not just for reputation, but for actual quality. BTW, I don't work for either company.

    I still stand by my words, that putting the same $35,000 towards a solution for hardware accelerated graphics would have done 10 more for the community and the viability of webOS than leasing outdated software from a company that's gobbled up investment money and yet not sold a single product. Being a first adopter for a now-obsolete product is pathetic. 35 grand is a lot of money. It's money that other more deserving developers (and projects) would now have to go without.
    RumoredNow likes this.
  9. #309  
    Quote Originally Posted by zukny View Post
    Phoenix reached 50% of it's goal today and in turn have created a $30 pledge for a copy of the ACL software.
    Well, I'm still skeptical; but I'm generally skeptical about any kickstarter project. I mean, you back an idea, a potential...there is no guarantee anything will ever be delivered; let alone the thing that was actually promised. But that has always been and will always be the nature of kickstarter.

    Truth is, I've asked some questions, and they have answered them (actually, I still have one open question: PIC Kick Starts the TouchPad with Open Mobile ACL) . They didn't always give me the answer I was hoping for, but they did have valid arguments.

    And I asked for a pledge that did not require any additional shipping, but as just to 'pre-order' ACL...they gave me that option. So I pledged. It's up to them to proof their worth now.
    RumoredNow likes this.
  10. #310  
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc_PIC View Post
    I'm sorry, but this statement is completely inaccurate. Please re-read what I posted earlier, as I believe I quite clearly stated that beta testers would be free to disclose issues discovered once we had been given the opportunity to address them and they had re-checked the updated version. Grateful if you would confirm this and revise your statement.
    Sorry, my phrase "Because they are afraid the report will come back negative" refers to the possibility (not being considered) of an independent entity trusted by the community brought in under NDA to evaluate the project for viability before it gets funded and I am basing this on your fears (see below) about an "early report", since of course this would be the earliest report of all. I am not concerned about beta testing at this stage since I am still considering the viability of your case for funds.

    Of course, if you are not afraid an independent entity would come back with a negative judgement, then it may be wise for you to ask someone trusted from WebOS Internals or WebOS Ports to evaluate your project under NDA as you would have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I would think OM would like this as well as it would increase the chance the kickstarter would succeed.

    quote:
    "The truth of the matter is that on the 'net negative impressions travel faster, further, and are more persistent than positive ones, and it would not be fair to us to have people's opinions about the product warped by an early report that never gets updated, "
    RumoredNow likes this.
  11. #311  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Of course, if you are not afraid an independent entity would come back with a negative judgement, then it may be wise for you to ask someone trusted from WebOS Internals or WebOS Ports to evaluate your project under NDA as you would have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I would think OM would like this as well as it would increase the chance the kickstarter would succeed.
    I was among the first to request an independent reviewer trusted by the community. But what exactly would you want this person to report (still under the NDA)? - Simply whether he/she believes this project is feasible, realistic, money well spend?
    RumoredNow likes this.
  12. #312  
    Some here not only completely refuse to be swayed but are hell bent on killing the effort.
    That's a lot of energy wasted for something they have no interest in.
    I think enough info has been shared to make your decision.
    I am all in..
    barryb20 and Sanjay like this.
  13. #313  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    I still stand by my words, that putting the same $35,000 towards a solution for hardware accelerated graphics would have done 10 more for the community and the viability of webOS than leasing outdated software from a company that's gobbled up investment money and yet not sold a single product. Being a first adopter for a now-obsolete product is pathetic. 35 grand is a lot of money. It's money that other more deserving developers (and projects) would now have to go without.
    You are more than welcome to attempt your own kickstarter project.
    Jive Turkey likes this.
  14. #314  
    Quote Originally Posted by kledanhoj View Post
    Some here not only completely refuse to be swayed but are hell bent on killing the effort.
    That's a lot of energy wasted for something they have no interest in.
    I think enough info has been shared to make your decision.
    I am all in..
    Some dissent is unavoidable. Welcome to the real world.

    Quote Originally Posted by kledanhoj View Post
    You are more than welcome to attempt your own kickstarter project.
    Yeah right. There's only so much money people are willing to give before they give up and lose all enthusiasm. We can't all stand here with an outstretched hand. Feed me, feed me.

    PIC were first to attempt a fundraising effort of this scale, so they did bring in a lot of cash, but it would be nave to expect the community to instantly support and fund another project of the same size
  15. #315  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Some dissent is unavoidable. Welcome to the real world.
    Some? haha It appears dissent is not the goal. It's total annihilation.
    I'm pretty certain that enough information has been shared for logical folk to make up their mind. No need to chase the endless last word.


    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Yeah right. There's only so much money people are willing to give before they give up and lose all enthusiasm. We can't all stand here with an outstretched hand. Feed me, feed me.

    PIC were first to attempt a fundraising effort of this scale, so they did bring in a lot of cash, but it would be nave to expect the community to instantly support and fund another project of the same size
    Is the dissent bitterness for being beaten to the punch? Maybe, if you did decide on a fundraising effort, you'd get to experience the other side of the "poo poo" squad first hand.
  16. #316  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Of course, if you are not afraid an independent entity would come back with a negative judgement, then it may be wise for you to ask someone trusted from WebOS Internals or WebOS Ports to evaluate your project under NDA as you would have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I would think OM would like this as well as it would increase the chance the kickstarter would succeed.
    I think potential backers should base their decision on the publicly available information, and if sufficient information is not available for them to make a judgement then they should require that information to be made publicly available as a condition of them backing the kickstarter.

    WebOS Internals is not interested in entering into an NDA with PIC or OM. That's simply not how we operate.

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 05/04/2013 at 07:10 PM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
    RumoredNow likes this.
  17. #317  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    PIC were first to attempt a fundraising effort of this scale, so they did bring in a lot of cash, but it would be nave to expect the community to instantly support and fund another project of the same size
    Will you be putting up a kickstarter for your alternative technical proposal if the PIC one fails to meet its target? All that money would be freed up again in that circumstance.

    It's very easy for people with no skin in the game to say how easy things should be, or say how things should be done...

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 05/04/2013 at 07:10 PM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
    Sanjay and Jive Turkey like this.
  18. #318  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    I was among the first to request an independent reviewer trusted by the community. But what exactly would you want this person to report (still under the NDA)? - Simply whether he/she believes this project is feasible, realistic, money well spend?
    WebOS Internals is very careful never to tell anyone how they should spend their money. The backlash if we advise incorrectly is just too great when money is in the picture.

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 05/04/2013 at 07:10 PM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
    Sukiyaki and barryb20 like this.
  19. #319  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    WebOS Internals is very careful never to tell anyone how they should spend their money. The backlash if we advise incorrectly is just too great when money is in the picture.
    I actually wasn't talking about WebOS Internals, as I don't think there's a reason for them - as an organization - to get involved (while there are many reasons why they shouldn't). I was just curious what he would expect to get out of an independent party under an NDA.
  20. #320  
    Quote Originally Posted by kledanhoj View Post
    [...]

    Is the dissent bitterness for being beaten to the punch? Maybe, if you did decide on a fundraising effort, you'd get to experience the other side of the "poo poo" squad first hand.
    Beaten to the punch? Hardly.

    My policy is product first, money later. That's how the majority of the homebrew devs here have worked, first releasing a product and then putting up their PayPal donation link. That's my idea of "fair" in these circumstances.


    As for the "poo poo squad", I take my friends' criticisms and concerns quite seriously, so why would I be offended by them? Please remember that OM is pretty much indefensible with the reputation they have, there no sense in covering their butts for them, ok?

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