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  1. #241  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    I would have thought that the webOS community would have jumped at such a proposition as the one being offered by this PIC KickStarter project...
    Except that OpenMobile is involved.

    Do you not know that they projected they would release this to individual consumers in Q3 of 2012, right here on webOS Nation? OpenMobile update!!! Yet the "product" appears not to have been worked on since that statement was made... Mind you this is in May 2012, middle of Q2 so the implied deadline was not far off. And no, they could not have been talking about a release via OEM. What OEM was slated to make webOS Hardware in 2012? None.

    On June 20th I posted this contact report between myself and OpenMobile as well as an XDA member and OpenMobile. OpenMobile update!!! Please note the positive response that they are working on ACL for webOS and it will be available for direct download to consumers.

    So in May and June of 2012, OpenMobile representatives affirmed that they are working on ACL for webOS and a release for individual consumer download was imminent.

    Member millhouse checked the PDF properties of the now infamous Data Sheet and determined it was last modified 22 May 2012. OpenMobile update!!! I first noticed the Data Sheet on their site 09 July 2012 so it has stated "available today" for at least that long...

    July 11, 2012 member bullonparade85 gets a same day email reply from OpenMobile saying they are working on ACL for touchpad. OpenMobile update!!!

    Late August, 2012 and AnitaOM states they are still "working their tails off" without affirming if it is on the webOS project, but implying that it is - or why reach out to this community? OpenMobile update!!!

    Q3 came and went without word... Then mid Q4 of 2012 AnitaOM posted this note saying "big news is coming soon." OpenMobile update!!! If it doesn't concern ACL for webOS how would it be "BIG NEWS" for this community? We never saw any big news... WTH was that about?

    Nothing from OpenMobile the rest of that year... Early in 2013 AnitaOM dropped this note (while ignoring all the controversy in the thread regarding the missed release and lack of news). OpenMobile update!!! The post invites people from the webOS community to visit them at CES 2013. Derek did, in his now famous "No webOS anywhere" video and OM did not have a single thing to say about webOS and ACL...


    So 11 months after they started hyping ACL for webOS as coming soon and/or available today (depending on the source)... After numerous contacts stating explicitly or implying slyly that it is a work in progress being actively pursued - they now want $35,000 from this community to "finish" something that looks exactly like it did way back when they unveiled it at CES 2012 (January 12, 2012).


    Put Phoenix International Communications aside for the moment, this has naught to do with them.

    OpenMobile has long ago burned up their goodwill with this community (and many another - go look at MeeGo forums and see what they have to say about OM). They don't deserve a penny of support from this community having used us simply to keep themselves in the media and build hype about what they can "do" and "have delivered." These are not the actions of a reputable company that can be trusted.

    The PIC/OM project is a kickstarter. By it's very nature they don't have to guarantee success. OM loves that. The appearance of getting things done with no guarantee they can be held accountable for. It's their preferred method of operation.


    This community wants positive things for webOS. Very understandable, laudable. OpenMobile is not a positive image and has used up any goodwill they would have had by not being open and communicative with this community. They are detrimental to advancement. They produce nothing but hype for themselves.... And now the revelation that even if the $35,000 completes the project individual ACL downloads will cost $20 to $35 a copy!!!!! The one and only reason ACL might get finished is to gouge more money out of the webOS community? OM wants that cash - they've not had a single product go to market (despite all the "available now" claims across multiple platforms). They want TouchPad users to bankroll their continued existence. Guess Samsung's Tizen money dried up and they need more cash without disturbing "Big Poppa."

    Seriously??? How is that positive? How is that OpenMobile helping webOS?

    Don't give me LG is watching. I'm sure they are. Is that the message we want to send the new owners of the OS? That we like companies that treat us poorly, that behave towards us as if we are stupid and gullible sheep with excess wads of cash in our pockets?

    I feel sorry for PIC that they have taken up the OpenMobile cause. It's not helping them (PIC) in my eyes and not advancing anything for the webOS community that has any lasting value to end users or makes the OS attractive to OEMs.
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 05/03/2013 at 12:32 PM.
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  2. #242  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    Promise me you will not buy ACL when it is released.




    Just Kidding.

    I can make that promise.



    And I'm NOT kidding.
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

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    Vistaus, dkirker and Remy X like this.
  3. #243  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    Except that OpenMobile is involved.

    ...

    Put Phoenix International Communications aside for the moment, this has naught to do with them.
    But you can't put Phoenix International Communications aside.

    OpenMobile's reputation is clearly known to PIC yet they claim they have done their due diligence and believe that they can make this work inspite of OpenMobile's track record.

    I have great hope for PIC and their possible future contributions to the community. I've already made a serious commitment to the Kickstarter project. But if this Kickstarter project is actually funded and PIC fails to deliver - it's PIC's failure and not OpenMobile. PIC lost the opportunity to blame OpenMobile when they acknowledged in this forum that they know of OpenMobile's track record. PIC's failure will be all PIC and I don't expect them to recover well from such a failure.

    So the question is simple - is it worth it to this community to give PIC a chance?

    It is to me.
    zukny and Jive Turkey like this.
  4. #244  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    I can make that promise.



    And I'm NOT kidding.
    Same here.
    RumoredNow, Remy X and ananimus like this.
  5. #245  
    Quote Originally Posted by cuspie View Post
    ...So the question is simple - is it worth it to this community to give PIC a chance?

    It is to me.
    No.

    The real question is: Is it worth it to this community to fund OpenMobile? The $35k, or a substantial portion of it, will go to OM for the "work they've done" and they will still own ACL. The $20 to $35 a copy will mostly go to OM.

    For me it is most definitely not worth it.
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  6. elopez's Avatar
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    #246  
    one thing i noticed by quickly perusing a few user accounts in this thread:

    most supporting the project have been forum members for many years.

    those few and vocal not supporting the project are newbies to the forum.

    interesting...
    Jive Turkey likes this.
  7. #247  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    Promise me you will not buy ACL when it is released.

    Just Kidding.
    I can make that promise.


    And I'm NOT kidding.
    I sincerely mean no offense, but if you have no interest in ACL, then might I suggest that you leave this thread to those who do have an interest in it. Since you have no interest in ACL, even if it delivers what it promises, then your opposition to this project seems to be of a personal nature. At least that is what it seems from your fervent and relentless opposition to this project. Which might I remind you, is not an Open Mobile project. It is a PIC project, who have so far given no reason for any of us not to trust them. If you actually care about webOS, then you ought to be aware that you are doing it a great disservice with your negativity towards the one and only positive thing that has happened for webOS in a long time.
    Pre3 (AT&T meta-doctored to ROW) webOS 2.2.4 build 3175
    TouchPad WiFi (32GB) - webOS 3.0.5 build 86
    App Catalog (US) - Vodafone (India)

    Treo 180 > 270 > 600 > 650 > 680 > Pre+ > Pre2 > Pre+ > Pre3 & tPad
    elopez, zukny, MAMISHO and 3 others like this.
  8. #248  
    Well.. I've been around here since '06... Helped birth webOS... I'm not so sure I support it. I am willing to give people multiple chances... But they (OpenMobile) sort of blew through theirs. At this point, if they want to be successful, they need to do it on their dime.

    Also... Look at my signature. Note my company's name. I created it in 2007. They seem to have come around in 2009. If I ever wanted to grow outside of being a one man thing, I'd now have a nasty mess to clean up (or change names, but I doubt most parents would rename their 6 year old...).

    They have no more chances. If they manage to get something to work, I'll reconsider my opinion. Until then... I've got other stuff to do besides sitting around like a sick puppy.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  9. #249  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    I sincerely mean no offense, but if you have no interest in ACL, then might I suggest that you leave this thread to those who do have an interest in it. Since you have no interest in ACL, even if it delivers what it promises, then your opposition to this project seems to be of a personal nature. At least that is what it seems from your fervent and relentless opposition to this project. Which might I remind you, is not an Open Mobile project. It is a PIC project, who have so far given no reason for any of us not to trust them. If you actually care about webOS, then you ought to be aware that you are doing it a great disservice with your negativity towards the one and only positive thing that has happened for webOS in a long time.
    No, it most certainly is a joint venture. I see no indication that PIC has 100% rights to any of it. My understanding is that PIC is spear-heading it, OpenMobile has the core resources. PIC may be providing some. I don't know...

    Skepticism is healthy, and advised in this situation. If it is worth donating the money, go ahead. If it isn't, don't.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  10. #250  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    Skepticism is healthy, and advised in this situation. If it is worth donating the money, go ahead. If it isn't, don't.
    Nothing wrong with skepticism. But what I don't understand is, why would someone who self admittedly has no interest in ACL, regardless of it's success, taking so much interest in opposing and running this project down. What is the motivation? I'm sure the person has better things to do, than to spend time involving himself with things he/she has not interest in whatsoever.
    Last edited by Sanjay; 05/03/2013 at 02:11 PM.
    Pre3 (AT&T meta-doctored to ROW) webOS 2.2.4 build 3175
    TouchPad WiFi (32GB) - webOS 3.0.5 build 86
    App Catalog (US) - Vodafone (India)

    Treo 180 > 270 > 600 > 650 > 680 > Pre+ > Pre2 > Pre+ > Pre3 & tPad
    MAMISHO likes this.
  11. #251  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    The current KickStarter status:
    342 Backers
    $16,264 pledged of $35,000 goal

    Needed to reach the targeted amount.:
    375 more people to pledge $50 (average)
    or
    394 more people to pledge at the current average of $47.56
    their cause wasnt helped by limiting the $30 option
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  12. #252  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    Nothing wrong with skepticism. But what I don't understand is, why would someone who self admittedly has no interest in ACL, regardless of it's success, taking so much interest in opposing and running this project down. What is the motivation? I'm sure the person has better things to do, than to spend time involving himself with things he/she has not interest in whatsoever.
    Yes, this is true, too.

    Honestly, I haven't read but more than a few posts in this topic. Mostly, because there are better things to do. If it works out, that'd be awesome. I know I'd be excited.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  13. #253  
    <quote deleted>

    I tend to take a route of modesty. There are also reasons why making such statements would be very very bad for me, and possibly others in this community. Therefore, my statements are sweet, swift, and not broad or lambasting.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 05/03/2013 at 11:14 PM.
    elopez likes this.
  14. #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by elopez View Post
    one thing i noticed by quickly perusing a few user accounts in this thread:

    most supporting the project have been forum members for many years.

    those few and vocal not supporting the project are newbies to the forum.

    interesting...
    then your not seeing the smaller/clearer picture, its as rumourednow says, openmobile and only them are the issue, if you cant read his indepth post regarding their history which he even gives concrete proof and links for then thats just blindly pretending theres no issue with them.

    its fine pointing a finger and saying, "my view is this so im right and your wrong" but when the proof and history of the matter is there for all to see then i dont see how anyone could say that openmobile has anyone to blame but themselves when people dont trust them..... they have good reason and history to do be understandably cautious so quite frankly telling someone who has laid down all the facts to STFU is beyond insulting imho.
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  15. elopez's Avatar
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    #255  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    then your not seeing the smaller/clearer picture, its as rumourednow says, openmobile and only them are the issue, if you cant read his indepth post regarding their history which he even gives concrete proof and links for then thats just blindly pretending theres no issue with them.

    its fine pointing a finger and saying, "my view is this so im right and your wrong" but when the proof and history of the matter is there for all to see then i dont see how anyone could say that openmobile has anyone to blame but themselves when people dont trust them..... they have good reason and history to do be understandably cautious so quite frankly telling someone who has laid down all the facts to STFU is beyond insulting imho.
    it's simple guys/opposers. fine, you've stated your case as to why you oppose the project.

    time to leave the thread. we've read why you oppose this. time to move on and away from this thread and the PIC effort.
  16. #256  
    Quote Originally Posted by elopez View Post
    one thing i noticed by quickly perusing a few user accounts in this thread:

    most supporting the project have been forum members for many years.

    those few and vocal not supporting the project are newbies to the forum.

    interesting...
    So as a developer I'm a newbie? Gee, thanks.
    Also, watch your tone. If you look up some of my posts then you'd know I'm a frequent donater to webOS devs so I do support devs that in *my* opinion are worth it.

    Register date doesn't mean anything as to how long people have been using webOS or what they do for the community (e.g. developing or donating).
  17. #257  
    Quote Originally Posted by elopez View Post
    it's simple guys/opposers. fine, you've stated your case as to why you oppose the project.

    time to leave the thread. we've read why you oppose this. time to move on and away from this thread and the PIC effort.
    if youve ever seen any of my older posts regarding acl/open webos, you may come accross the fact i actually like and advocate the idea of ACL, im just one of the people tho whos been strung along with promise after promise, frotn page news of "coming soon" yet nothing at all appearing.

    ive said often and repeatedly that ACL itsself is required and needed, its just a shame that the only choice left out fo 2-3 similar projects is the openmobile route, had all this kickstarter business appeared without their long bad history i doubt youd see a single person here objecting.

    However since they do have that history how can you blame people for being cautious or wanting to suggest others be cautious who werent here late 2011/early 2012 when their product was first promised and allegedly available to purchase.

    id call it common sense, and this is a forum for differing opinions, not ripping people with insults.
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  18. elopez's Avatar
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    #258  
    I'm out. this thread is an end-less cycle.
  19. #259  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    I'm playing consumer advocate. I see it as necessary to the situation considering that all the $ are flowing to a company with a poor track record of broken promises. I'm very interested in ACL and have been following it quite steadily since it first came to my attention a year ago.

    True, it is a PIC project. But it can not happen at all without cash being put in the hands of OpenMobile.
    Your absolutely right - cash will flow to OpenMobile and like you, I hate that idea.

    Are you supposing that OM is donating the software to PIC and PIC will use the kickstarter money to hire a developer to finish it? Perhaps you believe the $20 to $35 a copy quoted for a final release will be going to PIC to fund them? I'm sure the Lion's share is all marked for OM...
    I'm expecting that PIC will enter an OEM agreement with OpenMobile and pay a portion of the $35K for the rights to use what OpenMobile has. No matter what I may think about OpenMobile - it's their property. While I wished that PIC had chosen another base technology, PIC states they believe this is the best chance forward and, honestly, they are risking their reputation on that belief.

    I view this deal as extortion by OpenMobile. Why wouldn't I warn members of a community I value to stay away from the deal?
    Your absolutely right, this may indeed be an OpenMobile extortion deal with PIC as a pawn or PIC may actually be directly involved in the extortion - time will tell. I take no objections to you warning the community and I have taken your concerns very seriously.

    However, after directly communicating with PIC and reading their posts I believe that they could pull this off. And while I may loose a some money - it's PIC that has everything to loose here.
    RumoredNow likes this.
  20. #260  
    Quote Originally Posted by elopez View Post
    I'm out. this thread is an end-less cycle.
    I think you will notice, if you look, RumoredNow, geekpeter, and myself have already contributed a fair amount to this community, as well as donated directly to WebOS Internals. To suggest that we are all Anti-webOS, and doing everything we can to undermine it's development, is a bit of a stretch.

    The personal attacks can stop right now, END OF DISCUSSION on this matter.
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel

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