Page 11 of 105 FirstFirst ... 6789101112131415162161 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 220 of 2089
Like Tree1415Likes
  1. #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Mair View Post
    that's a very bad business model stopping a kickstarter and asking for less. That would look very silly.

    They are at over 40% in less then a week which is not bad at all. I still think lots of people are holding out till they see more stuff and teasers and maybe openmobile come out and address everyones concerns.

    Just like most startups the first and last weeks are the key weeks in getting funds.
    That may be true.

    Or it may be that the most enthusiastic people already contributed and it will be hard going to continue that momemtum. Businesses raising money have to adjust their targets and take less all the time and being able to fit oneself to the market is a key predictor of a well run project.
  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Given the pace of fundraising, a more realistic goal looks like about half, and I think if you put a $17.5K goal and then lowered the expected price of the software to $10-$20, it might be more realistic to your market (many of whom have access to android on touchpad directly or other means of getting apps).
    How small has our community gotten? - Based on the average pledge given up until now, the total number of pledges to reach the goal is 735 (total amount / (pledged amount / number of pledges) or: 35000/(14637/307) = 734.0985...). I wouldn't consider that unrealistic for a small community of our size.

    @Marc_PIC
    That being said, there are a few concerns that I do have (apart from some technical points raised by others):
    1. I still would like to see a critical review of the alpha by Derek (there are a few others here on webOS Nation that I would trust as well). This would change a lot for me...and I think for others.
    2. Who is responsible for the future of ACL for webOS? - Is it PIC, OM, or the community?
    3. Is there any chance of having the webOS keyboard in there (and have the android buttons on the bottom look more webOS-like)?
    4. Why are there no pledges (over 5USD) that do not require worldwide shipping (for an additional fee)? - Honestly, I don't need a LED flashlight keychain, a special custom made thank you postcard or my name listed on the internet. What if I just want to support through 'pre-ordering' the product?
    5. Since this kickstarter will most likely be supported mostly by the webOS user-community, why are the reasonable amounts (30 or 50USD) that are targeted at said community (since the rewards include a copy of ACL) all limited for the number of pledges? - I feel this creates a barrier...especially since/once they run out.
    Jive Turkey likes this.
  3. #203  
    Quote Originally Posted by dignitary View Post
    Very glad to see PIC here in this thread addressing these questions. Here's my contribution:

    As someone who leads multiple teams of developers dealing day-to-day with the shifting mobile landscape, I can personally tell you that we can't wait for the moment we can drop Android 2.3. And it's a widely-held and shared industry sentiment. It's our IE6 so to speak, if you're familiar with the metaphor.

    Anyway, given the accelerating drop in Android 2.3 usage share amongst Android users per Google's own Android dashboard over just the past 6 months, this is a vital question that needs to be addressed and immediately communicated to Kickstarter backers. As I've posted previously, as more and more developers are beginning to baseline new or rebase existing applications to "modern Android" 4.x (mostly 4.0.x), fewer actively-supported applications will remain for these users, and top-tier applications like Netflix will begin similarly rebasing when 2.3 share drops to even lower levels than most other devs would bother with. Keep firmly in mind that 4.0.x has been available since Late 2011, currently taking over 50% of the share when combined with 4.1/4.2 and growing rapidly month-over-month as a group.

    Current Android Version Usage Share Stats: Dashboards | Android Developers
    (Heck 4.1 is already within a hair of overtaking 4.0.x and we're sitting here talking about 2.3.)

    Anyhow, let me put a finer--but blunt--point on it: 2013 is the first year that Android 2.3 devices come up for contract renewal as it was released in 2011, so that (rain)drop in usage share is going to become a pretty big wave as these users tip the 4.x+ scales strongly as the year progresses. Much as web developers do whenever an obsolete browser finally falls below a substantial enough threshold to justify discontinuing support, the application rebase I mentioned above is only going to happen much faster as it typically does during contract cycles when usage shares shift drastically--and there's no shortage of advantages for developers to move to a 4.x baseline due to the major optimization opportunities and new features available to them.

    Does PIC intend to advance the ACL to incorporate 4.x+ applications into its compatibility matrix, and if so, does it currently have the talent to push that into the fold for its initial release or will additional resources be necessary to do so for a future release? Does this mean more money from the community? More developers? A Kickstarter-type effort for each major release? If 4.x compatibility doesn't make it to the initial release, realistically what are the ballparked chances that 2.3 support is the highest the PIC release will ever see given the technical complexity of just getting the existing version out, or is the architectural roadmap amenable to in-place upgrades with user data persistence intact?

    So, let's say 4.x is on the roadmap. If we look at CyanogenMod as a relatively comparative model given the scope of effort, going from CM7 (2.3.x) to CM9 (4.0.x) took their legions of expert-level Android developers quite a considerable time to stabilize and deploy, without factoring in the additional development and testing necessary for specific devices. In the end, each major CM release is in fact a new product (usually without the luxury of user data persistence) for this reason. Does PIC see ACL having to follow a similar model based on the existing application architecture?

    The crux of why I'm asking for all of this to be addressed: The current Kickstarter provides to backers zero information over what the expectations are as to the actual level of application support in terms of Android version; while astute eyes can pick out that all the interfaces scream Gingerbread, many other backers may attempt to ditch their dual-boot configurations (which vastly tilted at 4.x) in favor of what amounts to an unanticipated and monumental application support downgrade. Many others may back this project with the expectation of "modern Android" (4.x) support when in fact that's not what they may get. If they get 2.3 support without assurance that they'll ever get 4.x support, why would they want to take the downgrade in order to back this project? Others will, without realizing it, back this project and discover that the apps their friends on 4.x use can't be used on ACL because the project didn't explicitly set expectations by disclosing the ACL's limitations.

    How does PIC intend to address this publicly to Kickstarter backers in the name of transparency?
    Thanks for going into the the fine details about it - I appreciate the time you spent in putting it together and providing us with the facts.

    In terms of support for Android 4, it is something that we are looking into and will have an answer shortly - I do want us to be able to support it in the first release, and if it is in anyway possible without endangering the release schedule or exploding the budget far beyond what we can reasonably expect to raise we would do it. Otherwise, it will have to be a future upgrade (assuming we can enough support to make version 1 happen in the first place). My calculation is that although the pace of growth of Android 4 devices in consumer hands is increasing, there is still a large enough number of device owners still on 2.3.x to ensure that over the next 6 to 12 months the number of major apps forcing users to upgrade to a version 4 implementation in order to use them will be minimal, and that we could have an upgrade ready before it becomes a major issue for our users.

    On the other point, to be perfectly honest with you, it never occurred to me that the version of Android would not be apparent to those viewing the demo, nor was I considering that the older version would be a deterrent to those considering backing this. I suppose it's the difference between something being done solely as a profit generating business as opposed to a project we are doing for the webOS community, with the intention that any profit generated would then go into funding the next project undertaken for the webOS community.

    In terms of how to we will communicate this to Kickstarter backers, we are able to post project updates which are then emailed to all those who have backed the project. We will do this as soon as we have the answers I referred to above and come to a decision on it. For those of you who may not have backed Kickstarter projects before, the backer is in complete control, and is able to either cancel, decrease, or increase their pledge should they desire to, and will be able to react accordingly to the news when it comes.

    Lastly, I doubt that data persistence across upgrades would be something we would be able to offer. I will look into it however.
    dignitary likes this.
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by checkmate View Post
    Great to see Marc responding directly to questions the community is asking.

    I wonder if we could get any comment regarding possible future ACL implementation on webOS phones like my Pre3. I know there are many members here who'd have a lot more interest in this project (and may donate) if this is on the agenda at some point.
    We definitely want to support other devices, and the Pre3 and Veer would be the next ones we would look at. That can only happen if we can get enough support to make the TP project happen though. With the TP being the device with the best mindshare and arguably the most acute need, if we can't get enough support to make this happen I fail to see how we could get enough support to make a Pre3/Veer ACL project happen.
    Rnp likes this.
  5. #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    @Marc_PIC
    That being said, there are a few concerns that I do have (apart from some technical points raised by others):
    1. I still would like to see a critical review of the alpha by Derek (there are a few others here on webOS Nation that I would trust as well). This would change a lot for me...and I think for others.
    Unfortunately, that's not something that's going to be possible. Under our agreement we cannot send the software, and any device running it must remain in our possession. We also didn't request clearance for having it reviewed in the press, and I don't expect to receive it were we to ask. It's an alpha - slow as molasses, full of bugs and not that stable. It works better than some other alpha's I've seen, but it's most definitely an alpha.
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    2. Who is responsible for the future of ACL for webOS? - Is it PIC, OM, or the community?
    It depends on what you mean by responsible. ACL remains OM's technology, and so any project involving it will involve them. But in terms of making the decisions regarding next steps after the HP Touchpad project such as what device comes next, that will be a PIC decision made with input from the community
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    3. Is there any chance of having the webOS keyboard in there (and have the android buttons on the bottom look more webOS-like)?
    Not at this time. It is certainly possible to do, but the top priorities will be stability, compatibility, performance, and feature and Android version support. Improving Android's looks will be pretty low on the list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    4. Why are there no pledges (over 5USD) that do not require worldwide shipping (for an additional fee)? - Honestly, I don't need a LED flashlight keychain, a special custom made thank you postcard or my name listed on the internet. What if I just want to support through 'pre-ordering' the product?
    International shipping is a very real cost that has to be accounted for. If it isn't, there is a very real chance that a Kickstarter project could succeed but still be short of the funds actually needed due to costs of rewards being too high
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    5. Since this kickstarter will most likely be supported mostly by the webOS user-community, why are the reasonable amounts (30 or 50USD) that are targeted at said community (since the rewards include a copy of ACL) all limited for the number of pledges? - I feel this creates a barrier...especially since/once they run out.
    It's because of the fees and expenses involved in providing rewards. Some rewards are better deals than others, and if all backers went for a particular deal you could well have the situation where you achieve the numbers needed to meet the Kickstarter goal (thus creating the obligation to provide all the rewards), but fall short of raising all the money needed to pay for them and complete the development. So a choice needs to be made to either have no deals at all, so that no matter what ppl go for you will raise all the money needed (hoping that there will be enough people willing to back the project at those more expensive levels), or have a mix and limit some reward levels. We decided to go with option 2.
  6. #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Mair View Post
    that's a very bad business model stopping a kickstarter and asking for less. That would look very silly.

    They are at over 40% in less then a week which is not bad at all. I still think lots of people are holding out till they see more stuff and teasers and maybe openmobile come out and address everyones concerns.

    Just like most startups the first and last weeks are the key weeks in getting funds.
    Agreed. No need to armchair CEO. Let PIC carry out their plans as planned.
  7. #207  
    My opinions from what I gather over the past few days:

    PIC is PIC. OM is OM. PIC is not OM. PIC is working with the technology that OM has in the works. PIC is to be given a chance to bring about a good product to the market. OM is seen as shady by the community and needs to earn back the trust. The jury is out on PIC.

    I appreciate Rod's point about giving refunds and it would be great but I don't think that's realistic. As confirmed by Marc, refunds will not be given and I did not expect it either.

    Lack of Android 4.x integration concerns me but realistically, if there's already considerable foundation in place for 2.3, then why not go with it for v1.0? July is the planned release for 1.0 ACL on 2.3, which I happen to think is very aggressive and I would not be surprised if there are delays. I've funded 2 other projects on Kickstarter and both have had delays (Pebble and hot sauce, still waiting for my Pebble!). I see no reality in trying to get ACL up and running for 4.x as v1.0 given the current time schedule.

    The simple question I had seems to have been answered by Marc. Why are they doing this? From what I gather, PIC is a fan of webOS and want to put something out there that webOS users can appreciate. If you think about it in the big picture, $35k is not a lot of money (relatively). You hire one developer and that is good enough for only a few months of work (at least in the US).
    Sukiyaki, Jive Turkey and Rnp like this.
  8. #208  
    Marc,

    Thanks for participating and answering questions. I wish you guys the best and hope everything works out. One thing that keeps coming up is the ACL version. Do you know of any plans at OM to bring the ACL Android API level up to something more recent? BlackBerry is also at the 2.3.3 level with their Android Runtime, and doesn't currently have an ETA for their 4.2 compatibility. It is set as the next big milestone for them, though.

    Will OpenMobile update ACL to keep up with Android? I know there's nothing public to indicate that to be true, but is that at least a goal of theirs?
    White Z10, Touchpad 16GB [Retired: Pre 3, Pre 2, Pixi Plus, Pre Plus]
    Back on a BlackBerry after 2 1/2 years with WebOS.

    One-step Picasa batch image upload: http://forums.webosnation.com/hp-tou...ecl-webos.html
  9. #209  
    Marc,

    Glad to know you have been a part of this community in the past and this is a new "official" screen name for you. I thought as much, but did not want to assume...


    Quote Originally Posted by Marc_PIC View Post
    ...Another thing that has also occurred to me that might shed some light on this. OpenMobile has not to date been a consumer facing company. They were founded by a someone whose experience was not in consumer facing companies, and their business up to this point has been focused on OEM's - again, not consumer facing. To a consumer, immediately available means that you can pull out cash or a credit card, pay, and get it either immediately or the next day if you want to pay for express shipping. For an OEM however, an immediately available technology is completely different. Products from OEM's have months of lead time (prototyping, testing, refinement, certification, production, shipping, best launch time depending on whether your competitors are launching something new as well), and I would imagine that a product like ACL that can be 'tuned' to their specific hardware spec within a few weeks and beta tested and finalized all within a 2 to 3 month period may well meet an OEM's definition of being immediately available for their upcoming product. This does not excuse OpenMobile however - if they are aware of the controversy regarding this (did anyone actually contact them directly on this, or was it just assumed that by posting to the forum it would reach the attention of someone responsible enough to care?), they should have acted quickly to clarify things ( f it really is a misunderstanding).
    It's very nice of you to try and address this point on OM's behalf and I will not take it as your responsibility or hold you to any of your opinions as being fact. I understand you are simply trying to help clear things up.

    I am not a programmer. We have many such dedicated people here and they are doing a fine job asking the technical questions and helping us lay people interpret the answers you are graciously providing...

    However, my training and practice is in language and writing (both technical writing and creative writing). I've also studied logic, inductive and deductive reasoning, statistics and also analysis of media and scientific reporting.

    On OpenMobile's website they most specifically differentiate between the two customer bases: OEMs and consumers and make claims targeted specifically at consumers that they may download ACL for supported devices already in the marketplace. Technically this is correct as they do not yet support any devices, hence the lack of anything to download. It does lead an unwary reader into believing that they do support all types of devices and the consumer (not an OEM) can have this product immediately in a functioning form.

    I have addressed this to them directly. Twice in the past 6 months, via the contact form on their website. They have declined to respond to me either time. Nor have they corrected the misleading language.

    In terms of addressing OEMs... What OEMs for webOS or MeeGo might they be addressing? Neither platform has had an OEM for quite a long time nor have any future ones been announced; yet the sales pitch remains and still appears to target consumers in addition to any OEM that might take up the cancelled platform.

    Surely the (OEM focused) CEO did not design the website and write all the marketing materials. I'm sure he had a hand in approval of final drafts and might have set the tone to be followed... This would leave the actual language up to some individual or team who supposedly has training in technical writing. The structuring of the materials leads me to believe it is intentionally implying that individual consumers may acquire the product independent of any OEM. That may well be a goal of OpenMobile's sales model, but it most certainly is not "available today" and any claims of that being the case are false... Any technical writer worth hiring for a product roll-out would know the difference. They have had ample time in which to adjust the language and have chosen not to do so.
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
    Remy X, sledge007 and Rnp like this.
  10. #210  
    These are great and honest answers, so thanks again, Marc. I'm sure it's making things clearer and it would certainly be information that's beneficial to current backers, so offering to notify them regarding issues such as compatibility is excellent.

    I do remain concerned on certain technical questions you are looking into and look forward to hearing the answers. As Rod noted, some of these are simple matters of "yes or no" viability. Perhaps some of the efforts already put forward in this forum would also help suss out the answers.

    For example, some independent devs have made Android on webOS efforts. I believe NIN_ru has also gone Android in Card route for a Pre 3 effort He may have some insight on the likelihood of graphics acceleration. If it serves the community and fits to PIC's plan, folks like him might be happy to get some of this pointed in the right direction, as many have already done in this thread.
  11. #211  
    Amazon appstore was brought up in this thread, something I have never bothered with on my SGS3. I decided to install it and check it out. I have not been able to install a single app on my SGS3 here in Canada, paid or free. If I go to Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more, I can't buy anything from there period, I have to go to Amazon.ca: Online shopping in Canada - books, electronics, Kindle, home & garden, DVDs, tools, music, health & beauty, watches, baby, sporting goods & more. So here lies the question, is the Amazon appstore only available to residents of the USA or ......as I am typing this I am answering my own question.

    The billing address must be located in the United States. Amazon Appstore for Android is currently only available to customers in the United States.

    So here lies a problem that should be at least thought about, because I'm pretty confident a large number of users are not all living in the USA.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  12. #212  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    Amazon appstore was brought up in this thread, something I have never bothered with on my SGS3. I decided to install it and check it out. I have not been able to install a single app on my SGS3 here in Canada, paid or free. If I go to Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more, I can't buy anything from there period, I have to go to Amazon.ca: Online shopping in Canada - books, electronics, Kindle, home & garden, DVDs, tools, music, health & beauty, watches, baby, sporting goods & more. So here lies the question, is the Amazon appstore only available to residents of the USA or ......as I am typing this I am answering my own question.

    The billing address must be located in the United States. Amazon Appstore for Android is currently only available to customers in the United States.

    So here lies a problem that should be at least thought about, because I'm pretty confident a large number of users are not all living in the USA.
    are there different appstores available for download on amazons various country sites? ever since the UK joined their appstore ive been able to aquire apps using the android appstore download from the uk site.

    i had similar issues when i first used the kindle app, it as default navigated me to the usa site, so all i did was manually change their link to .co.uk and bought books etc that way, they still sync'd to the app np.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature....allation-guide
    this may only work for UK users, i dont know if it will work for other euro countrys, worth a try tho.

    http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/17/ama...ore-countries/
    recent article on amazon android country support
    Last edited by geekpeter; 05/02/2013 at 05:52 PM.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  13. #213  
    Yeah.. That's a big problem for many folks.
  14. #214  
    Looking on the Canadian site, all I can see right away is the Kindle book store. One would think if there was one available, it "shouldn't" be buried or that hard to find. I'll keep looking, maybe someone else has a tip they'd like to share.
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  15. #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    Amazon appstore was brought up in this thread, something I have never bothered with on my SGS3. I decided to install it and check it out.[S] I have not been able to install a single app on my SGS3 here in Canada, paid or free.

    ......as I am typing this I am answering my own question.

    The billing address must be located in the United States. Amazon Appstore for Android is currently only available to customers in the United States.

    So here lies a problem that should be at least thought about, because I'm pretty confident a large number of users are not all living in the USA.
    Virtual credit cards, are a relatively easy solution to this problem for those outside the US. They work fine for subscribing/using NetFlix & HULU+ for those living outside the US and I see no reason why it would not work for the Amazon store.
    Last edited by Sanjay; 05/02/2013 at 06:55 PM.
    Pre3 (AT&T meta-doctored to ROW) webOS 2.2.4 build 3175
    TouchPad WiFi (32GB) - webOS 3.0.5 build 86
    App Catalog (US) - Vodafone (India)

    Treo 180 > 270 > 600 > 650 > 680 > Pre+ > Pre2 > Pre+ > Pre3 & tPad
  16. #216  
    Just FYI, the Amazon app store is available in the US, UK, Germany, France, Italy, and Spain.
    Blasphemous webOS fan, using Android (with a big phone buying problem)
  17. #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    Virtual credit cards, are a relatively easy solution to this problem for those outside the US. They work fine for subscribing/using NetFlix & HULU+ for those living outside the US and I see no reason why it would not work for the Amazon store.
    For Amazon, you will need a US credit/debit card with a registered US address and phone number, and you will also need to go through a VPN proxy in the US.

    (I personally use a Simon Malls gift card, which allows you to register a US address and phone number)

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  18. #218  
    Thanks for all the tips!
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  19. #219  
    I would have thought that the webOS community would have jumped at such a proposition as the one being offered by this PIC KickStarter project and that a relatively small sum of $35,000 would have been pledged within a day or two at most. Therefore I am really surprised and actually saddened to see so much resistance in supporting this project. It is really sad to see that the support for webOS has reached such a state that this project cannot even garner the support of 700 people with a $50 commitment.

    The current KickStarter status is:
    323 Backers
    $15,529 pledged of $35,000 goal

    Come on guys, all we need is 390 more people to pledge $50 (average) to reach the targeted goal. For an outsider looking in on the webOS community, this project is an indicator of how much support webOS actually has left. So let's make this a thumping success.
    Pre3 (AT&T meta-doctored to ROW) webOS 2.2.4 build 3175
    TouchPad WiFi (32GB) - webOS 3.0.5 build 86
    App Catalog (US) - Vodafone (India)

    Treo 180 > 270 > 600 > 650 > 680 > Pre+ > Pre2 > Pre+ > Pre3 & tPad
    Sukiyaki, renater and barryb20 like this.
  20. #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    For Amazon, you will need a US credit/debit card with a registered US address and phone number, and you will also need to go through a VPN proxy in the US.

    (I personally use a Simon Malls gift card, which allows you to register a US address and phone number)

    -- Rod
    There are 'relatively' easy workarounds for the these problems. I say easy, because I think any one still using webOS already is used to working around issues. If people are able to subscribe to and stream NetFlix, HULU+ and Amazon Prime outside the US, then I see no reason why the Amazon App Store ought to be a problem.
    Pre3 (AT&T meta-doctored to ROW) webOS 2.2.4 build 3175
    TouchPad WiFi (32GB) - webOS 3.0.5 build 86
    App Catalog (US) - Vodafone (India)

    Treo 180 > 270 > 600 > 650 > 680 > Pre+ > Pre2 > Pre+ > Pre3 & tPad

Similar Threads

  1. Is there a future for Pre3, Touchpad with ACL?
    By SeiGraph in forum Open webOS General Discussion
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 10/09/2012, 12:23 PM
  2. Mobile Wallet Roll Out Starts With Small Change
    By ilovedessert in forum The 'Off Topic' Lounge
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05/20/2011, 11:16 AM
  3. cannot find an app to open a pic??
    By visorhawk in forum webOS Discussion Lounge
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07/19/2010, 07:56 AM
  4. Replies: 131
    Last Post: 06/03/2010, 05:12 AM
  5. Side Kick 1. Unlock? T-mobile Only
    By SCP_DRUMS in forum Other OS's and Devices
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08/25/2006, 12:51 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions