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Touchpad Battery drains when off - Is webos 3.0.5 the problem?
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Old 09/21/2012, 03:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I know that it has been discussed before but i decided to have a fresh thread to report one thing that has been bugging me for some time.

Now i think we have all experienced the issue where the TP battery slowly drains even when it is completely shut off, this really does not make much sense to me. For me it seems to drain about 4-5% over say 10-12 hours even when shut off. That is about 10-12 % per 24 hours which is a bit too much in my opinion. I consider this issue important for two reasons. First of all it means that when you do need to use your TP you have less battery and secondly, it means that you are forced to charge your TP more often which takes its toll on battery life. And since the tablet has been discontinued and is not exactly replaceable (not by the common user i mean) this will start to matter as our TPs are getting older.

Now, i bought my TP second hand from ebay. I am from Greece so it took about 10-15 days to uarrive. The previous user had factory reset it to webos 3.0.4 so the TP was clean. Although it took about 2 weeks to come, when i opened it the battery was charged to about 95%, that means it had dropped only about 5 % in a 2 week period. Even if the indication was not correct the drop was no more that say 10%, i am sure of that since i do not recall having any issues. That is a 0.5-1% drop per 24 hours which is a large difference compared to about 10% per 24 hours which is what i have experienced since then.

Now as i mentioned the TP was second hand so we can assume that the change in its draining behavior does not have to do with going from from "new" to "used". Now one of the first things i did was update to webos 3.0.5 (i actually received the tablet around the time the 3.0.5 update came through). Unfortunately i did not know back then that this was an issue so i did not take any notice of battery drain when the TP was shut off. So of course even from the very first days i tweaked with the standard patches that we all use, added lots of apps, many of which i installed and then uninstalled etc and quite some time later overclocked. Afterwards i noticed the issue with the battery drain, but since i have done many things since then i cannot be sure which could be responsible for this behavior. Is it the webos 3.0.5, is it the patches from the community, is it overclocking to 1.5 (i think probaly not because i have also returned to the standard kernel and the drain did not change), is it adding a ton of apps which probably takes its toll performance-wise anyway?

Of course i also have the latest CM9 Nightly but at least i know that is not to blame because i have had the draining issue long before i installed android. Now the reason i am mentioning all of this in detail is because i have been contemplating these last few days of doctoring, doing a complete factory reset going back to webos 3.0.4 maybe even 3.0.2 and experimenting a bit to see if i can find out more about this issue. But to be honest, the idea of having to reinstall all the accounts, apps, patches, android etc is a bit overwhelming right now. So of course turning to the community seemed like a better more lazy idea .

So first of all what do you think about all this, has anyone made similar observations? Do they make any sense? Is anyone scheduling a factory reset, maybe we could take the opportunity and see if any of my claims are real or my memory is foggy and i am making things up.
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Old 09/21/2012, 09:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I've noted this with all versions of webOS 3.x. I put it into airplane mode when going to work or sleep, which helps a little, but there is still quite a bit of phantom drain, still, while there is very little with my former iPad 1 or current iPad 3. My Pre 3 does not drain much at all when in airplane mode overnight.
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Old 09/21/2012, 10:58 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Tikkanen, i too put my TP on airplane mode and i agree that this does help.

However, i am talking about the battery drain when the TP is completely off, that is shut down. Losing about 10% of your charge with a completely shut down TP is very strange. However as i explained in the previous post my TP lost only about 5-10 % charge in 2 weeks time when i first received it, so i am trying to determine what is the cause of this drain. I read about people doctoring and factory reseting their TPs all the time so i thought if someone was to do this now anyway maybe we could experiment with the battery drain and see how it is affected by patches, apps etc. Also i was wondering what everybody's experience is on this and if anyone else has observed similar behavior.
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Old 09/21/2012, 11:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Could be an defective battery not holding a charge. Even with wifi on and in sleep mode, I have very little battery consumption on my 15 month old Touchpad. I'll put my Touch\pad in Airplane mode and check the battery consumption over night with the Battery Monitor app and see what I come up with. BTW, my TouchPad is overclocked with many patches. Also, when not in use, my Touchpad is always sitting on its touchstone charger which IMO has helped with the battery life.
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Old 09/21/2012, 01:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Netwrkr9 thx for your input. I will also test it overnight with wifi on. I would also appreciate it if you and anyone else could post their discharge overnight or say 24 hours but with the TP shut down, not in sleep mode completely off. This should give us a good idea of what's going on and wherther its a general issue, or with specific tablets.
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Old 09/21/2012, 01:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Sounds more like a battery issue not WebOS. I just checked my Touchpad 4G, it has been off the charger for 4 hours. WiFi has been on for 3 of those hours and 4G on for 1 hour as I drove to work. I used my TP for about 15 minutes to check my email before leaving the house. My battery still reads 95%.
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Old 09/21/2012, 03:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Agreed with the folks that are thinking battery issue... have you checked battery health with Dr Battery?

I have shut off a TP with 100% battery health and weeks later turned it on with 100% still.

My 32 gig TP that comes with me to work every day and goes on TS every night (have had it since mid July 2011) has been off the charger for about 7 hours, some light web surfing and twitter use this morning, WiFi always on, I am at 97%. This touchpad NEVER gets shut off so the battery is always in some state of charge or discharge for 14 months now. Oh also I have 2 push gmail accounts, 1 calendar, project macaw and facebook notifications on (can't remember the intervals, pretty sure twitter is 20 minutes, and FB may be as they arrive been so long since I set it up).
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Old 09/22/2012, 03:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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So yesterday i left my TP on with wifi but near my router to avoid connection problems that deplete the battery and i also had the battery monitor app on. In 12 hours it lost about 6% of its charge which is pretty normal. The battery monitor app showed a current of about 20-22 mA which is pretty standard. With wifi off it can go down to 18.

OldSkoolVWLover yes i have checked the battery health with dr Battery. It used to read 95% and now it's 94% which in theory is about 6300 mAh. However when fully charged the battery actually has around 5400 mAh. This is actually a known issue since it appears that two different battery capacities where shipped during the firesales. A lot of people have reported this. Obviously the smaller battery capacity affects the time it lasts. Today i will be testing it completely shut down for 12 hours to see how much it depletes. In your case OldSkoolVWLover, dropping only down to 97% after 7 hours standby and some light use is pretty good i would say. However i would not trust this measurement too much since dropping from 100% to 95% usually takes a bit more compared to dropping from 55 to 50%. Mine also lasts longer when fully charged. My understanding is that this has to do with the calibration of the software that is monitoring the battery discharge. In any case i would appreciate it if people could post how much their battery drops in 12 or 24 hour periods but with the TP completely shut down not in sleep or airplane mode (well post both if you have the data). Preferably the measurement should be below 90% since it seems to take longer to discharge when it is fully charged.

I will be posting my discharge rate. Thank you everyone for the discussion.
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Old 09/22/2012, 10:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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My experience has been that the TP battery drains steadily when the unit is completely shut off. It has a lifespan of about 10 days. Leave it for 2 weeks without charging and you are risking a dead TP that won't recharge.
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Old 09/22/2012, 01:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Semma2 View Post
My experience has been that the TP battery drains steadily when the unit is completely shut off. It has a lifespan of about 10 days. Leave it for 2 weeks without charging and you are risking a dead TP that won't recharge.
So a question remains: Is the drain occuring because of an actual electrical discharge.. ie. electricity from the battery is still being consumed, despite the fact that it is 'off', or is it that the battery itself is simply incapable of holding a prolonged charge?

?
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Old 09/22/2012, 01:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I tested my Touchpad in sleep mode in airplane mode and after around 18 hours it comsumed 7%,. I will try it tonight with it turned off.
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Old 09/22/2012, 01:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I switched on my spare TP after 1/2 year to check the battery and it was at 95%.
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Old 09/22/2012, 01:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by somline View Post
I switched on my spare TP after 1/2 year to check the battery and it was at 95%.
There ya go, no phantom discharge, no black helicopters, just what I thought, an aging and/or defective battery
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Old 09/22/2012, 04:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I switched on my spare TP after 1/2 year to check the battery and it was at 95%.
Wow, now that is something. A couple of questions though. Firstly, do you have patches, many apps etc or is it pretty much in factory reset state. Secondly, not to trying to be negative or anything but I am wondering if the 95% reading is true. Of course I have to say that my TP would die after 2 weeks even if it was off, so I think yours works great in any case, care to trade?

Netwrkr9, I appreciate your feedback, please let me know how it will discharge completely shut off. I just turned it on after 14 hours and it was 5 % down. I will test it again in airplane mode tonight and post the results.
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Old 09/22/2012, 06:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hmm...then both of my touchpads have defective batteries.
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Old 09/22/2012, 06:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kkalogia View Post
Wow, now that is something. A couple of questions though. Firstly, do you have patches, many apps etc or is it pretty much in factory reset state. Secondly, not to trying to be negative or anything but I am wondering if the 95% reading is true. Of course I have to say that my TP would die after 2 weeks even if it was off, so I think yours works great in any case, care to trade?
The TP was never activated. Booted to the "choose language" screen.
Sorry maybe it was 90% but it was at the green state in the battery icon.
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Old 09/23/2012, 02:12 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The TP was never activated. Booted to the "choose language" screen.
Sorry maybe it was 90% but it was at the green state in the battery icon.
Somline that is a very important observation. It is exactly what i noticed when i first bought my TP. So you are confirming that the TP in its factory state has a very different battery drain behavior. The real question now what is the root of all this. Is it the fact that it is essentially unused and if used will deteriorate? As i mentioned i bought mine second hand and when i received it the battery was almost fully charged even after two weeks. Could it be that the patches, webos 3.0.5 , the multiple apps cause this.

Perhaps Somline can answer one of my questions. Do you have webos 3.0.5 on? Although since it was never activated i don't really know if it actually has an effect.

On a different note, i kept my TP on airplane mode during the night and it went from 34 to 30 in 9 hours time and the battery monitor app read 20 mA current. So overall:

With wifi on: 6% in 12 and 20-22 mA current
In airplane mode: 4% in 9 hours and 20 mA current
Completely shut off: 5% in 14 hours

Now ideally, someone out there has noticed how much it drains in these states and is about to doctor/factory reset his TP. Now if we could get measurements after a fresh factory reset we could have an idea of how it affects battery behavior. Otherwise i will have to do it myself . God i really don't want to .
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Old 09/23/2012, 02:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Perhaps Somline can answer one of my questions. Do you have webos 3.0.5 on? Although since it was never activated i don't really know if it actually has an effect.
Since it never got activated I don't know the version. It's the version it came with.
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Old 09/23/2012, 03:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Since it never got activated I don't know the version. It's the version it came with.
Well you can easily check this on your device. It is either 3.0.4 or 3.0.2 probably. In that case we could check how it drains in the modes i posted (airplane mode, completely off) in webos 3.0.2 and then you could update to 3.0.5 and retest. This way we could exclude that it the webos 3.0.5 that is responsible for the drain. In that case it has to do with the patches or simply the fact that when you load your TP with a ton of apps the battery behavior changes. It doesn't make much sense too me but i am saying this because i have noticed that the TP tends to lag more when you load it it with apps. Anyway Somline, do you think that this is something you could do? In any case thx for the info.
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Old 09/23/2012, 04:00 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Well you can easily check this on your device. It is either 3.0.4 or 3.0.2 probably. In that case we could check how it drains in the modes i posted (airplane mode, completely off) in webos 3.0.2 and then you could update to 3.0.5 and retest. This way we could exclude that it the webos 3.0.5 that is responsible for the drain. In that case it has to do with the patches or simply the fact that when you load your TP with a ton of apps the battery behavior changes. It doesn't make much sense too me but i am saying this because i have noticed that the TP tends to lag more when you load it it with apps. Anyway Somline, do you think that this is something you could do? In any case thx for the info.
I don't want to activate it now. But I can do a test on my main TP. Bought at same time.
TP OS 3.0.5. 3 Mailaccounts, Twitter, Messaging ....
EDIT: WLan, Bluetooth switched on
I will switch it off now (11:00 Uhr local time) 100% "real" charged measured by dr. battery.
I will switch it on to night and report back.
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