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  1.    #41  
    Ok i actually hae some good news, i think. I have left my TP again for a 16 hour period off and according to dr. Battery i lost again only about 90 mA, and 1%. That is way better than what i have been experiencing so far. There are a couple of things i have done different this time.

    1. I shut down as LarryFlynt suggested, not by the power button, but went to device info, chose the reset options and shut down from there. Did this make a difference? I am not really sure, because i have actually tried this a couple of days earlier thinking that maybe due to the fact that have the advanced reset options patch it did not shut down correctly.
    2. I have actually unistalled a few of my apps. I have to remember which they were and make a list (does anyone know if there is any logging of this and how i could retrace my steps and see which apps i unistalled?). Could that make a difference. I don't know maybe. You see some of the apps i uninstalled were Where to go?, Where to eat?, and Localscope. I am only mentioning them here because they are the kind of apps that ask for your location when launched. To be honest i never actually used them anyway and in my location services options i have background data collection off and always ask as to autolocate.

    However after doing the above today i noticed two things:

    1. my TP only lost 1-2 % of charge during a 16 hour period (~80 mA or so)

    2. Now with my TP in sleep mode i am running dr. Battery, Battery monitor and the new battery widget. With wifi off they report 3-5 mA discharge current (5-6 with wifi on) which is a new thing for me. I have never seen it below 18 mA, usually it is around 20-22 mA.

    So what if part of this difference is essentially a constant discharge? And if it is so how come it stopped now? Maybe i shlould contemplating on winning the lottery or something. Still i will test again and report back, if possible i suggest you guys see if you have these type of apps installed and try uninstalling them. Also check with dr. Battery, or battery monitor/baterry widget/Govnah what kind of discharge you have when in sleep mode.

    P.S. A couple of other apps i remember uninstalling where a converter, ebookers explorer, aiosettings, tapnote, sorting thoughts. More importantly i just realized that every time i boot the TP asks me to allow an application for data collection (still does). Damn, need to focus and solve this
  2. #42  
    In general best thing for Lithium Ion batteries is to keep them topped off as much as possible.


    That's actually not true. For battery longevity, it's best to avoid going close to 100% if you don't need to, as the chemicals are more likely to crystallize as you approach full charge.

    Read more here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries
  3. Semma2's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata View Post
    I suspect that people complaining of high drain when powered off are turning their TouchPad off from within CM9, and not from webOS!
    No. Like many others here, my TP is stock WebOS 3.0.5 with only a few patches installed. No Android. In normal use with WiFi on, screen off most of the time, and occasional active use to check mail and such, it easily lasts through a work day with less than 10% power drain. But I know that the one time I left it turned off and stored for 2 weeks with the battery starting out at 100%, I came back to a dead battery. I've seen a dead battery when left for 48 hours with screen and WiFi off, which I wouldn't have expected from the normal rate of power use. I've also seen my TP go into high-drain mode with the battery dropping 10% per hour with nothing apparently running, only fixed by a full reboot (rogue app maybe?).

    People are suggesting a lot of possible theories about why we might see very different power-off battery life in different cases, but so far no concrete reproducible test results to show that any of these theories are correct. That won't be easy since each test may have to last more than a week to demonstrate anything for sure.

    Right now I'm leaving my TP turned off (via the power button menu), not on the Touchstone charger, and I'll check it every 24 hours to see how much remaining charge it reports. I'm not sure this will be accurate, since we know that measuring the actual charge state of rechargeable batteries is very difficult. Usually the displayed % remaining you see is at least partly an estimate based on run time and history. The voltage measurement doesn't show anything significant until nearly the end of capacity, where it can cause the displayed % remaining to drop suddenly from 50% to 5% if the estimate wasn't very good. I suspect that's what's happening here, and what I'm going to see is the battery looking fine until about day 10, when it will suddenly crash to nothing.

    Update 1: Turning it on after 24 hours, the battery shows 98%.
    Update 2: Turning it on after 48 hours, the battery shows 93%.
    Update 3: After 4 days (including 1 hour left on with no WiFi/screen off/no activity), the battery shows 77%.
    Last edited by Semma2; 09/29/2012 at 08:51 AM.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Semma2 View Post
    I'm not sure we're getting anywhere near the bottom of this yet.

    First, if the OP has a defective battery, then a whole lot of us have defective batteries that work fine except that they drain too rapidly when the TP is powered off for a couple of weeks. Possible, but not the most likely explanation.

    Second, for those of you keeping the TP on the Touchstone when it is powered off and not finding any drop from 100% charge, it charges on the Touchstone even when it is powered off.

    Third, for those of you who have been testing for a day or two, those of us reporting long-term discharge have generally left the TP turned off for periods like 10-14 days, and we don't know at what point the charge started to drop. It might not have been a steady drop. Some new discharge may have started at a certain point (e.g., the battery charge dropped by a certain amount, so it woke something up to check if a charger was available, which my 2nd point may already suggest).

    Keep testing!
    The device I speak of has not been on the TS for months and has been powered down for months.... so 1, 2, and 3 are not applicable to any of my comments.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  5.    #45  
    Ok another update from me.

    Since uninstalling some of my apps (Where to go, Where to eat, Localscope, one converter, ebookers explorer, paratrooper hd, tapnote, sorting thoughts, aiosettings, ad hoc and maybe a couple more i can't remember) i have tested my TP a few times. I am now getting about 5 mA when in sleep mode (with or without wifi on) and i am losing about 1% of charge during 16 hour periods.

    Yesterday i reinstalled the above mentioned apps and nothing changed. Still about 5 mA of discharge during sleep mode and my TP lost about 50 mA of charge while it was completely shut off during a 16 hour period. If you take into account that about 20-30 mA are lost during boot up that is excellent and very close to what many people are getting.

    As a reminder my TP would read a 20 mA discharge current during sleep mode and would lose up to 8-10 % during a 24 hour period when shut off. So it appears that it is now ok by some miraculous way. I really can't tell what fixed it, i wish i could so i could advise accordingly. However i would suggest to the people experiencing discharges like i used to, to uninstall and reinstall as many apps as possible (maybe some installation was not done correctly) and try shutting down their TPs by the reset options in the device info which is located in the settings tab (just in case the advanced reset options or just shutting down with the power button is not as efficient).

    I will keep testing to see if this behavior says the same or if it will revert to its old ways. I only wish i could provide more insight into this so we could find a solution for everyone.
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    #46  
    As per my message above, my TP battery shows 77% after being left turned off for 4 days (turned on only 3 times to check the power level). The battery is clearly dropping rapidly even though the TP is off, consistent with my previous observation that it was stone dead after 2 weeks turned off. I don't think there's any point in continuing this test.

    From my understanding of how remaining battery charge is normally determined, I don't think the TP circuitry could actually be measuring remaining capacity this accurately, so it's probably estimating by the amount of power used so far. If that's the case, then something in the TP is aware that power is being used even when it's turned off, and it's not just the battery quietly self-discharging. So what is using that power? And would turning it off a different way make any difference? I'm now going to try it by shutting down from the Settings -> Reset menu. Are there any other ways to turn it off besides that and the power-button menu?
    Last edited by Semma2; 09/29/2012 at 11:22 AM.
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Semma2 View Post
    As per my message above, my TP battery shows 77% after being left turned off for 4 days (turned on only 3 times to check the power level). The battery is clearly dropping rapidly even though the TP is off, consistent with my previous observation that it was stone dead after 2 weeks turned off. I don't think there's any point in continuing this test.

    From my understanding of how remaining battery charge is normally determined, I don't think the TP circuitry could actually be measuring remaining capacity this accurately, so it's probably estimating by the amount of power used so far. If that's the case, then something in the TP is aware that power is being used even when it's turned off, and it's not just the battery quietly self-discharging. So what is using that power? And would turning it off a different way make any difference? I'm now going to try it by shutting down from the Settings -> Reset menu. Are there any other ways to turn it off besides that and the power-button menu?
    Semma2, your observations are very similar to mine. However as i have mentioned in my previous posts it seems that now i do not have that problem any more. I really do not understand how it has been solved. For example my latest measurement shows a drop of only 1% over 24 hours. Like i said all i can think of was installing and uninstalling some of my apps, you can see which in my previous posts. Try shutting it down from the reset options of the TP and try uninstalling as many of your apps as possible. I would suspect especially apps that use location services, this of course is just a hunch, i have no concrete evidence to support this. All i know is that after uninstalling and reinstalling these apps the battery behavior improved immensely.

    Also measure how much is your discharge current with and without wifi in sleep mode. You can measure this with various apps such as dr. Battery, Govnah, Battery monitor or the latest battery widget. Mine used to be around 20-22 mA in sleep mode, but now it has dropped to 5. So i am wondering if this difference of about 15 mA is actually a constant discharge even when the TP is shut off. Good luck and i'd be happy to co-test with you.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by izzybee914 View Post
    After 24 Hours Completely Powered Off the Touchpad still showed 100% when turned On but Quickly dropped to 98% within 15 minutes of use.I currently Powered it Off again will remain that way for 3 Days and recheck the battery level.
    Update: It has been 5 Days Now that the Touchpad has been Completely Powered Down and the Battery Level has remained at 98%.Things are Looking Good!
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    #49  
    So what you did was drain the battery using the Battery Drainer app in Android, then switched to WebOS to recharge, then turned it off? How did you turn it off?
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Semma2 View Post
    So what you did was drain the battery using the Battery Drainer app in Android, then switched to WebOS to recharge, then turned it off? How did you turn it off?
    I went into Device Information Options in webOS and shut down with the second option which powers down turning off all radios.
    Seems using this option Shuts the Touchpad off completely were if your shutting down from within CM9 its obvious that somethings remain ON.
    All seems OK now with my Touchpad and will Shut it down from within webOS from now on when my touchpad is not being used.
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    #51  
    Ok, I shut mine down from the Reset options 2 days ago. I'm going to leave it off for 4 days to get a decent baseline to compare to shutting down from the power button, and we'll see it that's what makes the difference.

    I can't see how it should. Shutting the power off from the power button should call the same shutdown code, and I had both Bluetooth and WiFi shut off anyway, so the message about shutting down the radios would appear to be redundant. But we'll see...
  12. #52  
    To add clarification to the discussion, I have never shut down a webOS device from the Device Info page... I always use the power button and more or less have advanced options patch installed to power button menu (Luna Restart, etc)
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
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    #53  
    Ok, here's another possibility:

    When you last charged your TP before turning it off, was it on the regular charger or the Touchstone? If on the Touchstone, did you shut it down while on the Touchstone, or after taking it off? I'm thinking that some circuitry to do with Touchstone charging may not shut off completely when the TP is turned off in some circumstances.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Semma2 View Post
    Ok, here's another possibility:

    When you last charged your TP before turning it off, was it on the regular charger or the Touchstone? If on the Touchstone, did you shut it down while on the Touchstone, or after taking it off? I'm thinking that some circuitry to do with Touchstone charging may not shut off completely when the TP is turned off in some circumstances.
    I always start my Touchpad up by placing it on the Touchstone and Yes it was last Charged on the Touchstone But when I Shut It Down I Always Remove it from the Touchstone Before it Completely Powers Off.
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    #55  
    I can now answer the question about whether turning the TP off via the Reset option works better than turning it off via the power button. The answer is No.

    After 4 days powered off from the Reset command, my TP battery shows 78%, almost the same as the 77% it showed in the previous test using the power button (which included being turned on 3 times to check intermediate values).

    I'm now charging on the regular charger instead of the Touchstone to see if that makes any difference.
    Last edited by Semma2; 10/06/2012 at 09:23 AM.
  16.    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Semma2 View Post
    I can now answer the question about whether turning the TP off via the Reset option works better than turning it off via the power button. The answer is No.

    After 4 days powered off from the reset button, my TP battery shows 78%, almost the same as the 77% it showed in the previous test using the power button (which included being turned on 3 times to check intermediate values).

    I'm now charging on the regular charger instead of the Touchstone to see if that makes any difference.
    I too did not notice any difference. However i am now regularly on a discharge of about 1% over a 24 hour period. I can only suggest that you do the things i did above, hopefully this will work for you. If it does then we can test it with other devices and perhaps spread the word, although as i mention in my previous posts i am not really sure what fixed it for me.
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    #57  
    Quick check 2 days after charging with the regular charger instead of the Touchstone and then powering down: battery = 100%.

    Day 3 check: battery = 100%
    Day 4 check: battery = 100%

    Test terminated. The trend is clearly much different than the Touchstone charge.

    Check normal use: battery drops to 98% after about 30 min of use reading newspaper with screen on and playing music. It seemed to stay at 100% for an unusually long time though before it dropped, which might indicate that the battery capacity was somehow stuck at 100%..

    Hmmm....

    It's looking like the Touchstone may be the culprit in this whole affair. Charge on the Touchstone, and something keeps draining power in the TP after it is shut off, regardless of whether it is removed from the Touchstone before being shut down or after (I tried it both ways in the previous 2 tests). Charge on the regular USB charger before shutting down, and that doesn't happen, even if the TP has previously been charged on the Touchstone.

    Of course an alternative explanation could be that the USB charger is somehow charging the battery much better than the Touchstone. That might fit with how the battery charge seemed to remain high initially for a couple of days after a Touchstone charge, then dropped more rapidly, possibly indicating that it was suddenly nearing empty after just a few days. However, it doesn't fit with the way the battery charge dropped every day after a Touchstone charge, or the fact that normally when removed from the Touchstone it doesn't drop any more rapidly than expected if the TP is actually in use throughout the day.

    A third explanation could be that my battery has somehow been reconditioned or automatically recalibrated after a couple of charge/discharge experiments like this, so it's giving different readings now for reasons completely unrelated to the charger. The only way to confirm would be to try the experiment one more time on the Touchstone, which I will now do.

    Another update: After recharging on the Touchstone, and doing the multi-day test again, the battery shows: 100%, 100%, 100%...

    Well. That makes it look like the 3rd explanation may be the right one, i.e., that the battery has been recalibrated somehow by charging on the regular charger and is actually pegged at 100% because the TP isn't tracking the remaining capacity properly.

    The charge drops to 98% within a few minutes of normal use with WiFi on, so it's not stuck at 100%

    Next test: Run the battery down a little, then see if that charge level holds when it's off.

    I ran the battery down to 89%, turned it off for a day, turned it back on, and the battery was at 88%. One more day turned off, and the battery was still at 88%. It seemed to run down normally when the TP was used for a while from that point.

    It certainly looks like the power-drain-while-off issue is fixed (at least for the moment) on my TP, although I would have to run the battery down further and leave it for at least 2 weeks to be sure.
    Last edited by Semma2; 10/12/2012 at 09:20 AM.
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    #58  
    To summarize my tests over the last few weeks:

    My TouchPad definitely suffered from battery drain while turned off. The one time I left it turned off for 2 weeks from a 100% charge, it was stone dead when I came back. When I tried a test, checking the remaining battery power daily, it dropped significantly every day while turned off. My TP is stock WebOS 3.0.5, no Android. I normally use a Touchstone for charging.

    While some have found the same problem as me, others in this thread reported that they have turned on TPs left off for months and still found plenty of battery power remaining. There appears to be no common thread to explain the difference. It doesn't appear to be due to a defective battery, the version of WebOS, the use of mods or Android, or how the TP was turned off. Some people have had the problem apparently disappear after trying various random things.

    In my case I tried charging with the USB charger instead of the Touchstone, and that seems to have cured the problem. Not only did my TP battery no longer drain while off after a USB charge, it appears that it no longer drains while off even after resuming charging on the Touchstone.

    I'm still a little suspicious of this result, since there's no clear explanation. It could be that the USB charge has reset some charging-related circuitry that was inadvertently draining power while off. Or it could be an illusory result due to some sort of re-calibration of the battery which occurred at some point in my tests. The only way to be sure is if someone else with the same problem tries this "cure" and gets the same result.
  19.    #59  
    Well like in my case Semma2's "cure" appears to have no valid explanation. There is definitely something inconsistent about this behavior. However even these random cures might prove useful to people that have the same problem. One of he most important observations that i made during my tests was the how much the discharge rate changed before and after the "fix".

    So before the fix while in sleep mode the TP would discharge with about 20-22 mA. When turned completely off it would lose about 8-10% of its battery charge during a 24 hour period. After the fix the discarge rate dropped to about 4-5 mA while in sleep mode and a about 1-1.5% over a 24 hour period. So one of the first things someone should do is measure these parameters. Ideally when in sleep mode you should as low as possible discharge current. If you are okay in sleep mode then you should be ok with the TP completely turned off.
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    #60  
    My TP is definitely cured of the battery drain while turned off. I've been tracking it for 2 weeks now. Occasionally I see a drop of up to 3% between turning it off and turning it on again a day or two later, but more usually it's 0% or 1%. The battery % drops at a normal rate while in use, and the drain stops when the TP is turned off, just as it should. So my recommendation is that the next time you encounter this battery-drains-while-off problem, charge once on the USB charger instead of the Touchstone and maybe the problem will go away.
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