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    #21  
    One thing that was mentioned about the Apple charger was that it would have a wifi booster.
  2. #22  
    @buddy: Not exactly. Samsung and Apple also don't pay to Palm/HP for the use of the smartphone patent which HP holds yet they don't sue. It was mentioned here before that HP doesn't want to sue because they want to avoid getting into a war like Apple vs Samsung.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    @buddy: Not exactly. Samsung and Apple also don't pay to Palm/HP for the use of the smartphone patent which HP holds yet they don't sue. It was mentioned here before that HP doesn't want to sue because they want to avoid getting into a war like Apple vs Samsung.
    i thought the issue was that they dont hold the "real" patent as such, and that they had grandad rights from inheriting the smartphone patent, maybe that changes things there a bit?.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    Palm does have a patent on the wireless phone and tablet charging. Also, HP has patented the Touchstone 2 (the one with the audio out). Look it up on that website where you can find patents (I saw it some time ago but forgot the name of the website, but if you're so into patents you which one I mean).
    You cannot patent "wireless phone & tablet charging." That is an idea. That is simply a basic misunderstand of what can be patented. It's simply false. It's not the law. Charging is an act. You can patent an invention. That's a specific thing. You can patent a tablet "charger" not tablet charging. And this is a huge problem with discussions of "stealing" and patents. There's simply a ton of misinformation. Charging is an idea. There were tablets before Palm's. They got charged too. That Palm has a patent on a touchstone 2 doesn't mean they have a patent on ALL wireless charging devices unless it's the only possible way to charge wirelessly. I'm not charging expert but i'm gonna guess it's not the only method. There is the other thing that until you read the patent you can't be sure exactly what part of the patent is protected. for example the touchstone charge is made of plastic. Can i not make charger now from plastic? Of course I can because the material of plastic isn't protected.

    Regarding the "wireless phone patent" has anyone read it? I have granted it was months ago. And people keep parroting this nonsense that palm has a patent on the wireless phone. That tech is ancient. There's a reason people aren't paying Palm for it. The tech in that patent doesn't appear in their modern devices. You can make a cellphone without using any of it. And that specific patent covers the largely organizing of menus. It in no way prevents people from making wireless phones. That is simply not true.

    Palm may have a patent on an invention that charges wirelessly, a touchstone charger. And part of that may have tech that makes the wireless charging possible, that is patented or patentable. That in no way prevents another company from making a separate different tech to wirelessly charge devices. As someone mentioned there where charging mats and even inductive charging toothbrushes which actually i also had one too. Similar to this http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YLfjA9HHgX...alB_oxyjet.JPG Eventually it got gross though. But that is where people simply fail to understand. If you don't steal patented tech from the actual touchstone you're not stealing anything you don't have a right to take.

    Plus patents get licensed often. A patent doesn't prevent Google, Apple or any other company from licensing any tech from any other company including palm. And Palm has licensed it's tech often. So even if palm did have the only patented method for wirelessly charging a cell phone in the world someone else could license it from them and use it. Depending on when that patent was filed it could have lapsed into the public domain and everyone could use the tech. But I've seen a patent for a touchstone charger. That doesn't mean there are not other ways to charge wirelessly and that can be patented. Apple has a patent on their iphone. It doesn't mean they can prevent other other companies from making any different phone.

    If apple actually cracked open a touchstone, stole the exact design of the inner workings of inductive charging and that exact design is patented by Palm, and held to be valid because patents have to be protected, then yeah they stole something. Like Samsung seems to have been found to. But short of that. it's just people on forums complaining.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  5. #25  
    I agree with SnotBoogie (weird name to put in that sentence, lol). Just because there is a patent for HP/Palm's touchstone wireless charging, doesnt mean there arent other ways of accomplishing this without violating the patent law. I hate to stick up for Apple because Im sure they have stolen a lot of ideas and called it their own. But they probably arent using the same technology as Palm did. Now if they start says stuff like "It's a revolutionary new way to charge your phone. Never before done...", well then we have a problem. lol
    Back to webOS with my new Touchpad!!!
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  6. #26  
    Similar discussion as in this thread.

    Anyway, I do like the most developed and integrated inductive charging system out there up until now...the Palm Touchstone system!

    Oh, and regarding the toothbrush...which forum do I use to complain about my wireless signal strength and voice quality when brushing my teeth? It's like I'm talking inside a trash can when I use that thing!
    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

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    sledge007 likes this.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by kupfernigk View Post
    The idea of inductive charging is ancient and goes back to the 19th century. A patent must have novelty and not be obvious. The things I can imagine being patented are (a) how the charger recognises that a device is present and (b) how the charging is controlled and limited. There are many ways of doing these things: as a former electronic engineer I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head
    And if this is true then even if there was only one way to do it it would have already lapsed and anyone could do it. They could only protect specific unique pieces of tech that they've added. And i'm not remotely saying that Palm couldn't add something that's patentable and that couldn't have been stolen. But what is see is the common refain, "they copied us" "We have charging, they are adding charging, thus, they stole from us."

    Quote Originally Posted by kupfernigk View Post
    What has amazed me is that nobody else has done it for so long. My evil suspicion is that too many phone makers have relied on charging sockets eventually wearing out after warranty expiration making the phone useless. Now batteries are non-replaceable in so many phones, this is the new built in obsolescence.
    I have always had the theory that one, it's slower to charge. At least my pre charged much faster in the wall then on a touchstone. Another reason i've suspected that charging tech has not exactly been a flashy feature that pulls people in. I never bought a touchstone. I've only used one i got free more then a year after purchase and that was cause the store was throwing them away. It didn't remotely enter into my purchasing decision. I know it does for others. I think specifically for apple their devices have needed to transfer data, like the ipod, iphone, ipads, and thus everyone didn't have wifi to do data transfers and thus they couldn't cut the cord even if they really wanted to. They did only just ad wifi sync.

    Quote Originally Posted by kupfernigk View Post
    (info available on request but bring money).
    lol. Exactly if someone wants to pay me $600 and hour i'll start reading patents. But that's stuff is boring, tedious, and often confusing.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 06/28/2012 at 04:07 PM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbeast View Post
    Oh, and regarding the toothbrush...which forum do I use to complain about my wireless signal strength and voice quality when brushing my teeth? It's like I'm talking inside a trash can when I use that thing!
    Can i also complain about the crap braun design that pooled decaying toothpaste on the charging base and attracted all kinds of disgusting bacteria and goop for something they expected me to put in my mouth. That thing was nasty. luckily my brother worked for Braun and i used to get them free. Electric razors too. alright i'm out. Lunchtime.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by jsgraphicart View Post
    I agree with SnotBoogie (weird name to put in that sentence, lol). Just because there is a patent for HP/Palm's touchstone wireless charging, doesnt mean there arent other ways of accomplishing this without violating the patent law. I hate to stick up for Apple because Im sure they have stolen a lot of ideas and called it their own. But they probably arent using the same technology as Palm did. Now if they start says stuff like "It's a revolutionary new way to charge your phone. Never before done...", well then we have a problem. lol
    No, Apple can't say that stuff 'cause Samsung beat them to it with the S3 inductive charging which Samsung called 'revolutionary".
  10. #30  
    Snoot boogie questioning the value of the touchstone, its too slow to charge, this and that. Geeez
  11. #31  
    It wasn't until I got one free with my Veer, that I got my first Touchstone. I considered the $80 they were asking too much. I bought a few more since, at the $10-15 range, as the $5 deal was USA only. When I'm in my work truck, 4G, freeTether, GPS and BT on, it barely keeps up. Good for around the home, but not very practical while I'm out and about.

    I should probably look into modding one of them so it will fit better, it's just not super high on my priority list. Personally, I like the fast charge.
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  12. #32  
    Its good for every thing. If I need a lot of juice fast I use the usb. But that rarely happens because I have 6 touchstones
    Last edited by laingman; 06/28/2012 at 06:53 PM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    i thought the issue was that they dont hold the "real" patent as such, and that they had grandad rights from inheriting the smartphone patent, maybe that changes things there a bit?.
    I think in the smartphone patent case, everyone pays except Palm. As it was split off, with Access. Milominderbinder's post explains it all:

    http://forums.webosnation.com/hp-web...-hardware.html
    French Pre3, UK Pre2, US Veer, German gsm Pre, 680, garmin ique 3600 & still have my working palm pilot 1000 with the 1 Mb adapter

    Please remove UberCalendar and google sync behavior patches prior to system updates.
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  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    It wasn't until I got one free with my Veer, that I got my first Touchstone. I considered the $80 they were asking too much. I bought a few more since, at the $10-15 range, as the $5 deal was USA only. When I'm in my work truck, 4G, freeTether, GPS and BT on, it barely keeps up. Good for around the home, but not very practical while I'm out and about.

    I should probably look into modding one of them so it will fit better, it's just not super high on my priority list. Personally, I like the fast charge.
    Indeed, the Touchstone charges quite fast. Not for the TP, but for the Pre 3 it does.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by kupfernigk View Post
    The idea of inductive charging is ancient and goes back to the 19th century. A patent must have novelty and not be obvious. The things I can imagine being patented are (a) how the charger recognises that a device is present and (b) how the charging is controlled and limited. There are many ways of doing these things: as a former electronic engineer I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head (info available on request but bring money).

    What has amazed me is that nobody else has done it for so long. My evil suspicion is that too many phone makers have relied on charging sockets eventually wearing out after warranty expiration making the phone useless. Now batteries are non-replaceable in so many phones, this is the new built in obsolescence.
    same reason Tesla(yea the one who came up w/ wireless power/electricity) coils arent every where today, and why DC(direct current) is the norm unlike AC(Alternate Current)-Tesla's promoted this idea, but Edison won so we use direct current primarily at least in the states...or something close to what i said...haha, cant remember too much of the story
  16. #36  
    I don't have a problem with anybody using commonly used tech (eg inductive charging) The problem that I have is with claiming it as your own an trying to lock others out with patents. :-(
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    I don't have a problem with anybody using commonly used tech (eg inductive charging) The problem that I have is with claiming it as your own an trying to lock others out with patents. :-(
    THIS1!!!!! Apple is known for this
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
    Vistaus likes this.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by retroblu View Post
    same reason Tesla(yea the one who came up w/ wireless power/electricity) coils arent every where today, and why DC(direct current) is the norm unlike AC(Alternate Current)-Tesla's promoted this idea, but Edison won so we use direct current primarily at least in the states...or something close to what i said...haha, cant remember too much of the story
    sorry I go straight to tesla motors... No clue what you are referring to
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by retroblu View Post
    same reason Tesla(yea the one who came up w/ wireless power/electricity) coils arent every where today, and why DC(direct current) is the norm unlike AC(Alternate Current)-Tesla's promoted this idea, but Edison won so we use direct current primarily at least in the states...or something close to what i said...haha, cant remember too much of the story
    Its the other way around, edison promoted direct current and telsa ac was just better, so we used Ac today. Direct current is still around in batteries, cars and welding for example, but was not good for transmission over long distances
    Last edited by laingman; 06/28/2012 at 09:17 PM.
    RumoredNow and andyhurley like this.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    You cannot patent "wireless phone & tablet charging." That is an idea. That is simply a basic misunderstand of what can be patented. It's simply false. It's not the law. Charging is an act. You can patent an invention. That's a specific thing. You can patent a tablet "charger" not tablet charging. And this is a huge problem with discussions of "stealing" and patents. There's simply a ton of misinformation. ....
    THIS^^

    Thanks for clarifying that again. Some people here post "assumptions" and "rumours" as if they were facts. They are not.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
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