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Battery Icon w/ Question Mark, researching
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Old 01/25/2012, 10:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I installed CM7 on both of my touchpads, and let one's battery completely die (thought I had it on the charger but never got around to it). When I plugged it into the charger or PC's usb, nothing happens on the screen, but eventually the home button notification LEDs begin alternating (slowly, slower than the blinking that occurs when the battery is super dead). Doing a reset (home+power) without it plugged in gives me a battery with a question mark.

Of course, I assumed that if I were to just send in my touchpad after having installed cm7 onto it, that they wouldn't fix it and say my warranty is void, so I just popped it open to take a peak (using flat screwdrivers of course, so the evidence is there, warranty likely null).

Anyway, I figured, maybe it's a dead battery? So I popped my other TP open, stole the battery and tried it in the dead one, same question mark unplugged after reboot or alternating LEDs when plugged in to charger or PC. Also swapped the USB circuit board of the internals from working TP to non-working, and no difference.

I don't believe it is hardware related. I've been reading a bunch, and accidentally discovered the two different boot methods of power+voldown+home (QDL mode), and the opposite is another mode that brings up an unknown device called "Palm" in device manager on my Windows PC. I have the Novacom drivers installed for the standard recovery mode, but this is something different.

To linux users familiar with hacking the TP: Unfortunately, while my home server has crunchbang on it, it's rather...inaccessible for testing with this. When this mode (power+volup+home) is enabled with linux, does it already recognize the driver equivalent?

I'm willing to try whatever I can on this, and would love to share it for the general public. I personally think that the bootloader (bootie) is corrupted or something similar, since I cannot seem to get it into standard recovery mode with power+volup.

Any ideas? I can have this usb port assigned to a linux vm no problem if it makes things easier. I saw in this thread (http://rootzwiki.com...ge/page__st__10) and jcsullins there asked for a vid and pid to give other possible solutions to that guy's similar issue, but didn't see a reply after he provided that info. I have posted this message there as well, but from what I've read, this community is #1 for the TP, so I figured I would try here as well.

Sorry again for the wall of text, and I (and likely others as foolish as I have been) would be grateful for any info. There has to be a way to fix it, the guys fixing them at HP are likely flashing them through one of these methods to fix the bootloader. I know we'd probably need those files to replicate the solution, but perhaps those files are out in the wild somewhere?

Thanks for reading.

Edit: This is not CM-dependent.

Last edited by trugate; 01/25/2012 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Additional Info
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Old 01/26/2012, 03:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trugate View Post
I installed CM7 on both of my touchpads, and let one's battery completely die (thought I had it on the charger but never got around to it). When I plugged it into the charger or PC's usb, nothing happens on the screen, but eventually the home button notification LEDs begin alternating (slowly, slower than the blinking that occurs when the battery is super dead). Doing a reset (home+power) without it plugged in gives me a battery with a question mark.

Of course, I assumed that if I were to just send in my touchpad after having installed cm7 onto it, that they wouldn't fix it and say my warranty is void, so I just popped it open to take a peak (using flat screwdrivers of course, so the evidence is there, warranty likely null).

Anyway, I figured, maybe it's a dead battery? So I popped my other TP open, stole the battery and tried it in the dead one, same question mark unplugged after reboot or alternating LEDs when plugged in to charger or PC. Also swapped the USB circuit board of the internals from working TP to non-working, and no difference.

I don't believe it is hardware related. I've been reading a bunch, and accidentally discovered the two different boot methods of power+voldown+home (QDL mode), and the opposite is another mode that brings up an unknown device called "Palm" in device manager on my Windows PC. I have the Novacom drivers installed for the standard recovery mode, but this is something different.

To linux users familiar with hacking the TP: Unfortunately, while my home server has crunchbang on it, it's rather...inaccessible for testing with this. When this mode (power+volup+home) is enabled with linux, does it already recognize the driver equivalent?

I'm willing to try whatever I can on this, and would love to share it for the general public. I personally think that the bootloader (bootie) is corrupted or something similar, since I cannot seem to get it into standard recovery mode with power+volup.

Any ideas? I can have this usb port assigned to a linux vm no problem if it makes things easier. I saw in this thread (http://rootzwiki.com...ge/page__st__10) and jcsullins there asked for a vid and pid to give other possible solutions to that guy's similar issue, but didn't see a reply after he provided that info. I have posted this message there as well, but from what I've read, this community is #1 for the TP, so I figured I would try here as well.

Sorry again for the wall of text, and I (and likely others as foolish as I have been) would be grateful for any info. There has to be a way to fix it, the guys fixing them at HP are likely flashing them through one of these methods to fix the bootloader. I know we'd probably need those files to replicate the solution, but perhaps those files are out in the wild somewhere?

Thanks for reading.

Edit: This is not CM-dependent.
The 'white battery of death' usually shows up when the microcontroller that supervises charging "can't find" a battery. (Yes - it _is_ running off the battery when it shows you that sometimes, so it isn't perfect...)

In-house, we would take the device over to the fix-it guys, and they would swap the battery with a charged on and that would fix it. Since you tried that, it sounds like there is some persistent problem between the controller ("a6") and the battery. Whether that is a hardware bit that died or a corrupted a6 (its firmware gets updated with our internal flash tool - I assume that the Doctor does it also)....

If you are getting the alternating LEDs in the home button I would suggest that you give it time: you don't mention how long you watched it in that mode, but I've seen it take hours to get to the point where the "red battery of Uh-Oh" shows up {the white battery with the red bottom indicating that the battery is really, really low.....}

edc
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Old 01/26/2012, 07:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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this happened to me with a 100% stock tp that was off the charger for a few days. I had to send it in to get it replaced. I tried every button combo I could think of. Sorry I couldn't help. Good luck!
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Old 01/28/2012, 04:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the replies.

The reason I thought it was the bootloader is because it fails even to show the hp logo before it shows the battery logo, but I understand now that it's just the battery check happening before that and failing. Makes sense. Is there a way to bypass that by any chance?

Chejlava, what is involved with flashing the a6 chip? Do they plug in via the usb? I'm not afraid to try something myself! : ) I do realize that there are likely some files and methods that they might prefer to keep in-house, and I understand if that's the case. I would love to mess with it though, even if I end up killing it completely. I just enjoy experimenting with learning new things.

If there's no way for me to do it without something they're utilizing, what would they charge for me sending just the board in, if you had to guess?

Thanks again for replying. It's satisfying to understand the issue.
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Old 01/30/2012, 05:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by trugate View Post
Thanks for the replies.

The reason I thought it was the bootloader is because it fails even to show the hp logo before it shows the battery logo, but I understand now that it's just the battery check happening before that and failing. Makes sense. Is there a way to bypass that by any chance?
Not that I know of. If there was a way it would most likely involve a JTAG cable & external interface (they're something like $10k...)

Quote:
Chejlava, what is involved with flashing the a6 chip? Do they plug in via the usb? I'm not afraid to try something myself! : ) I do realize that there are likely some files and methods that they might prefer to keep in-house, and I understand if that's the case. I would love to mess with it though, even if I end up killing it completely. I just enjoy experimenting with learning new things.
Actually, the a6 firmware gets installed on the "hard drive" so you _could_ reflash it yourself - if the tablet was booting up that far. The firmware can be found in /lib/firmware, and the app that is used is PmA6Updater. The files are a6_firmware.txt.00 and .01 {00 is the 'rear' a6 that handles charging and such, 01 is the 'front' a6 that handles the front Touch-2-Share comm coil}.

For you the command would be "PmA6Updater -a" which wil reflash both a6 devices from the standard firmware files.


Quote:
If there's no way for me to do it without something they're utilizing, what would they charge for me sending just the board in, if you had to guess?
I have no idea at all if the mysterious "they" would charge to resurrect your TP and if so how much. I'm just a lowly software engineer - they don't tell us much of anything important!

edc
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Old 01/30/2012, 05:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by trugate View Post
If there's no way for me to do it without something they're utilizing, what would they charge for me sending just the board in, if you had to guess?
The warranty process does not work that way. Taking the tablets apart meant that you tripped the tamper tape inside thus warranty is void. Also the service center does not take just part of a device but the whole thing. Go ahead and contact webOS support and mention the problem with the device and that it was opened up, they can tell You will be charged the out of warranty fee of 199.00 USD to have the device sent in for repair and from there they have the tools to force flash the hardware on the device and send it back to you.

Of course this is all assuming the hardware has checked out to be fine and its just the firmware that got FUBARed.
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Old 01/30/2012, 05:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I had the Question Mark on my veer once. The battery was complete empty.
After letting it without a charger for some hours it came up after connecting the charger again.
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Old 01/30/2012, 05:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I had the Question Mark on my veer once. The battery was complete empty.
After letting it without a charger for some hours it came up after connecting the charger again.
I was thinking the same thing too, had a veer and TP do that to me before. Nothing to loose maybe the OP can do the battery disconnect reset:

1. Make sure the device is not pluged into USB cable nor touchstone.
2. Press a hold the power button.
3. While holding the power button down, press and release the center button 15times. This will completely shut down the device and wont turn back on through the power button.
4. Leave it overnight and wake it back up in the morning by plugging the charger back in.

Nothing to loose by doing this.
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Old 01/31/2012, 12:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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unfortunately that reset doesn't seem to work in this question mark mode. i can confirm i am doing it correctly as it works at any time on the tp that works. it does respond to holding both buttons for a reboot, but not a shutdown like that.

would pulling the battery achieve the same results? if not, i'm hoping i'm doing it wrong... would be interested to see.

too bad i cant interface the "hard drive" on the it, then i would try to replace those firmware files.

so either mode (power-center-volup, power-center-voldown) cant be used for anything of that sort? what are these modes for, anyone know? i know voldown seems to be qdl mode, but ive messed with qpst and think thats a dead end. volup enables a mode that makes the tp show up as palm in device manager through windows, but its not the nova drivers. not referring to the power-volup combo, which the nova drivers would normally recognize.

thanks again guys. really impressed with the nature of this community, appreciate it and hope to reciprocate somehow.
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Old 02/09/2012, 08:35 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by trugate View Post
I installed CM7 on both of my touchpads, and let one's battery completely die (thought I had it on the charger but never got around to it). When I plugged it into the charger or PC's usb, nothing happens on the screen, but eventually the home button notification LEDs begin alternating (slowly, slower than the blinking that occurs when the battery is super dead). Doing a reset (home+power) without it plugged in gives me a battery with a question mark.

Of course, I assumed that if I were to just send in my touchpad after having installed cm7 onto it, that they wouldn't fix it and say my warranty is void, so I just popped it open to take a peak (using flat screwdrivers of course, so the evidence is there, warranty likely null).

Anyway, I figured, maybe it's a dead battery? So I popped my other TP open, stole the battery and tried it in the dead one, same question mark unplugged after reboot or alternating LEDs when plugged in to charger or PC. Also swapped the USB circuit board of the internals from working TP to non-working, and no difference.

I don't believe it is hardware related. I've been reading a bunch, and accidentally discovered the two different boot methods of power+voldown+home (QDL mode), and the opposite is another mode that brings up an unknown device called "Palm" in device manager on my Windows PC. I have the Novacom drivers installed for the standard recovery mode, but this is something different.

To linux users familiar with hacking the TP: Unfortunately, while my home server has crunchbang on it, it's rather...inaccessible for testing with this. When this mode (power+volup+home) is enabled with linux, does it already recognize the driver equivalent?

I'm willing to try whatever I can on this, and would love to share it for the general public. I personally think that the bootloader (bootie) is corrupted or something similar, since I cannot seem to get it into standard recovery mode with power+volup.

Any ideas? I can have this usb port assigned to a linux vm no problem if it makes things easier. I saw in this thread (http://rootzwiki.com...ge/page__st__10) and jcsullins there asked for a vid and pid to give other possible solutions to that guy's similar issue, but didn't see a reply after he provided that info. I have posted this message there as well, but from what I've read, this community is #1 for the TP, so I figured I would try here as well.

Sorry again for the wall of text, and I (and likely others as foolish as I have been) would be grateful for any info. There has to be a way to fix it, the guys fixing them at HP are likely flashing them through one of these methods to fix the bootloader. I know we'd probably need those files to replicate the solution, but perhaps those files are out in the wild somewhere?

Thanks for reading.

Edit: This is not CM-dependent.
Hi. I have the same problem. Eventually the battery ran out and I can't get it to boot again. I sent it for repair but they returned it since it's US made...now to send it to the US I need to send it to a middle man, that then will send it for repair. They can't provide me with ANY repair service within the EU (even if I want to pay for it!) and that's stupid.

So I'm considering opening mine out and removing the battery and then see if it boots without the battery. I think you did a similar thing.

Do you know if it can boot without a battery (similar to a webos phone)?

What is the status of your touchpad now?

Thanks.
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Old 02/12/2012, 06:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It's still dead. I was hoping that swapping or unplugging the battery would solve my issue initially (hence why I cracked it open) but it didn't work. I'll double check to see if it responds at all without the battery, but I believe the answer is no, it will not power on without a battery plugged in.

Also, to any that may know: What is the brass-colored button mounted on the pcb on the inside? When I get home, I'll take a picture and post it, but I was just curious.

I hope enough of us get together and figure something out, I would love to fix my wife's tablet.

PS, I plan on getting a decent JTAG interface, and if it takes directly reading and then flashing the firmware from my working touchpad, I'm going to do so. I will not leave it broken, and I will fix it on my own if need be! DIY power. : D
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Old 02/13/2012, 07:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It's still dead. I was hoping that swapping or unplugging the battery would solve my issue initially (hence why I cracked it open) but it didn't work. I'll double check to see if it responds at all without the battery, but I believe the answer is no, it will not power on without a battery plugged in.

Also, to any that may know: What is the brass-colored button mounted on the pcb on the inside? When I get home, I'll take a picture and post it, but I was just curious.

I hope enough of us get together and figure something out, I would love to fix my wife's tablet.

PS, I plan on getting a decent JTAG interface, and if it takes directly reading and then flashing the firmware from my working touchpad, I'm going to do so. I will not leave it broken, and I will fix it on my own if need be! DIY power. : D
Thanks for your reply. Let me now if you can doctor it without the battery.
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Old 02/16/2012, 10:01 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Sorry for the delay. It will not power on without the battery, unless there's some additional super secret button combination that allows it to. If I lived near you I would just let you borrow a battery to check it, since I have a known working spare n all...

My guess is that you're in the same boat that I'm in. If I figure something out I'll be sure to post it, and I hope you'll do the same!

edit: Also, I still plan on taking a picture of that bronze-colored button on the pcb, would love to know what that does.
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Old 02/16/2012, 10:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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No webOS device will power up without the battery inserted. During the post, it first goes through the battery to check its presence before anything else is done. Maybe when the battery is installed, power it up, and while up take the battery out you could but would not recommend it at all with device that were designed for integrated batteries.

It looks like the firmware on the device is FUBAR and just needs a force flash but the webOS doctor does not do this for good reasons, there is a high chance this would brick the device, so this needs to be done at the repair facility in case the reflash fails.
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Old 02/16/2012, 08:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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But for those of us who cannot have ours repaired (through foolishness or otherwise), repaired at the facility isn't an acceptable answer. Paying basically what I bought it for to get it repaired feels pretty silly, especially when it's not an "essential" item.

-Again-, if ANYONE knows any information about the mode you can enter the device into by starting it with power+volup+home/center button, please, post it. There hasn't been any coverage as to what this mode does, if there's drivers for it, what it's used for, etc anywhere online that I've seen. I want to know.

Anyway, there is a way to flash the firmware directly using a JTAG interface, which I've read up on and studied pretty extensively since it was mentioned earlier in this thread. When I get the cash, I'm going to invest in one and mess around with it (worked at a medium business that manufactured their own boards, etc, so I'm good with soldering and repairing small bits, know how to re-work chips if need be). Hopefully, if it goes well, I'll be able to post files, the best methods (and cheapest) or perhaps discover a workaround altogether. I might even fix the same issue for others, I don't know. I've recently acquired a ton of decent smartphones that are hard bricked, and for some their only recovery is directly interfacing with the chip via JTAG, which only further drives me to purchase the necessary equipment to fix this.

It might take me a while, but I WILL figure a way out. It might not be for everyone, but it could be useful information, useful to someone. Disclaimers will be attached if I ever post instructions.

Of course, if someone has some useful information and/or files for fixing said issue, it would make this adventure easier when the time comes.
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Old 05/11/2012, 09:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I went and bought some JTAG equipment, and I'm ready to dive in. Does anyone know what my target is to read from good touchpad / write to bad touchpad, or perhaps willing to share bin files,etc they may have access to?
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Old 05/11/2012, 11:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I got a "?" battery today on my Pre3, after it shut down due to extreme overheating. 1.9Ghz + FreeTether + hot sunny day = OMG

I put it in the shade, and let it cooldown about 10 minutes, and it was good.
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Old 07/07/2012, 08:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Trugate, were you able to make any progress with this problem? I have a touchpad that has the flashing leds on the home button and, when I can get it to come up, it shows the big question mark battery icon. Strangely enough, if I charge it overnight and get it to come up with the icon, it can stay on for at least an hour. I may try it for longer just to see how long it will stay up. That would suggest the battery and charging is fine, but the initial boot sequence is somehow corrupted. I noticed the two modes as well, palm and qhsusb_dnload. The qhsusb mode is apparently a Qualcomm (high speed?) usb serial port. I was able to find 64-bit drivers, but I can't find 32-bit drivers I need for Windows XP and supposedly Webos Doctor will see the Touchpad with those drivers installed.

I liked the response that chejlava had with the details to reprogram the a6 devices, but where do you get the files to which he referred?

I like your attitude towards this problem and DIY spirit. I'm an EE and would love to help solve this problem as well. There's got to be a better way than having to send it back to HP for repair, especially if it turns out to be a software fix. If there is nothing that can be done via software, I'm ready to crack mine open and determine if there is anything that could be done with the hardware to correct the issue.

Thanks!
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Old 07/10/2012, 01:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
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This is the best thread so far with this battery with question mark issue.... its been 2 months since the issue and was not able to find an issue.. if anyone can solve the issue, please publish it ! Thanks all for your help !!
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Old 07/15/2012, 02:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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any updates?

I can see palm and the qualcom modes on windows but cant get the bootie screen so novacom wont interface

I installed QPST software as I read you could reset it that way but when it connects and I load EFS explorer it says it sees a phone in download mode but the option to reset it is greyed out

I even installed linux to try the last resort bootloader recovery and compiled the OMAP USB thing and in both palm and qualcomm modes could not get it to connect to the device

any other ideas or does white questions mark mean the touchpad is bricked?
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