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  1. jmleese's Avatar
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       #1  
    2 months....


    Pew: 19 percent of American adults now own a tablet, twice as many as in*December

    source: The Verge

    Pew: 19 percent of American adults now own a tablet, twice as many as in December | The Verge


    hardly a niche market & they need to adapt as this platform will surely eat into pc sales...

    though it looks like they'll tie their wagon to banking on MS really pulling off windows 8 being a homerun for tablet use. I'll admit windows 7 was a smash in fixing what Vista should have been in gutting the bugs and bloat, but its quite a big harder to improve on that and achieving a great tablet ui experience...
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 01/23/2012 at 06:54 PM.
  2. #2  
    population of the world: 5 thousand million
    Population of USA: 250 million

    USA, on its own, is not indicative of the whole world.
    Siobhán

    Palm III, Treo 600/650/680/750, Pre, Pre3, AT&T Pre3, tp 4G, tp 64GB.

    I am an HP Employee. I am not associated in anyway with the development of webOS or associated devices. Opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not in any way represent HP or Palm in any official manner. Any implications derived from my posts are the result of my own point of view and do not indicate any intention or evidence of past, present or future activity or plans of the aforementioned HP or Palm.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by siobhanellis View Post
    population of the world: 5 thousand million
    Population of USA: 250 million

    USA, on its own, is not indicative of the whole world.
    lol your world population estimater is abouy 20 years too late.
    HP Touchpad 32gb
    I'm not an doctor, but I play one in real life.
  4. #4  
    population of the world: 5 thousand million
    Population of USA: 250 million

    USA, on its own, is not indicative of the whole world.
    I don't know. I think Pittsburgh is rather lovely ;-)

    Perhaps the US is not indicative of the whole world, but it may be indicative of trends in technology, in the same way Japan, Germany, South Korea, et al, are.
  5. #5  
    "grossly mismanaged" ?!? I think he did the only right thing to let go of this failed project webOS+Touchpad. Quality issues, software issues, limited ecosystem... would only bring bad publicity and higher losses to HP. The worst mistake is that they still invest in webOS which with every update brings new bugs. It kind of reminds me of Nokia and Symbian. Eventually they will shut it down.
    Last edited by rioachim; 01/23/2012 at 09:03 AM.
  6. #6  
    Nerds & geeks to not create shareholder value. :-(
  7. #7  
    I was thinking about this today though...

    they REALLY should have created a christmas sale for the TOuchpads, say $250 for the 16gb and $350 for the 32gb, and cashed in on people wanting tablets badly this season.

    Run a couple cool ads before christmas, its really not that hard.

    People in the tech industry need to stop focusing so much on shareholders and quartly results and focus on running a buisness that sells gooed quality products with TONS of advertising.

    I can think of one fruity company that does this to great sucess, yet no one else seems to get it.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    The profile of Best Buy that aired on CNBC mentioned that the retailer has a 20% marketshare of the consumer electronics market. That's pretty hefty and would explain why poor sales at Best Buy would quickly serve as an overall barometer of the TP's prospects. One would imagine that if won't sell at Best Buy, then it probably won't sell at all.

    In today's hyper-competitive mobile market, it would be hard to envision sales of something like a tablet strengthening over time. If anyone knows how this works, it's companies like HP and Best Buy. Even if HP had more faith in the TP than it demonstrated, if a retail partner than has 20% of the market for all of your devices does not, then you pretty much have to fold.

    From the CNBC program, Best Buy runs a pretty tight ship these days. They are practically the last national electronics retailer standing among the ruins of the likes of Circuit City, etc. They have a walk-through display at their home offices that looks like an ICU with the names of suffering and deceased electronics retailers. They said that they put the tablets and smartphones right up front, now, to grab the customer's attention - these are flagship devices. You can be sure that they were really watching what customer's reaction to the TP was.

    They even mentioned how, once, getting stuck with inventory when there was a big PC processor upgrade almost killed the company and that was a big lesson for them. They aren't letting tablets and smartphones sit around in a flagship role in their stores unless they are really drawing customers in.

    Regarding Windows 8 tablets, it will be interesting to see what Microsoft does with the pricing. Windows has always been priced at a certain level, however, it's hard to imagine people paying that much to use Windows 8 on a tablet. Can you see Microsoft trying to get $50 for a Windows 8 license on a tablet?
    Not trying to be combative with you but I call BS on this statement. Yes, Best Buy may be 20% of the electronics market, but what about the other 80%? If Best Buy screws something up (like not offering rebates on the TouchPad when everyone else was) that doesn't mean it will effect the overall market. Best Buy putting tablets up front "now" is a joke. The last time I was in my local Best Buy tablets were in the back left corner. Doing this "now" has diddly squat to do with what happened in July and August of last year. Today's hyper competitive market is moving towards online purchasing of electronics and devices. Want to have some fun? Look up the cost of a standard (6ft) HDMI cable at Best Buy, then look up the cost on Amazon. The cheapest cable at Best Buy is 2-3 times more than an average cable on Amazon, and thats if you order the cable online from Best Buy. If you go into the store the cheapest one you can find is usually around $25. Best Buy is definitely not a good barometer of the tech market anymore, unless you are buying a TV. Amazon would be a better gauge. Walmart and Costco do better on the TVs.

    Oh, and before you say I'm biased, I have a Best Buy credit card and usually buy my electronics I can't get online there. I bought my TouchPad there. I never ask them for advice because their associates are clueless and I never go to them to fix my electronics because the Geek Squad is a joke.

    BTW, my local Staples has tablets up front and the TouchPad sold well there according to the manager.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    How do you think HP would have been able to differentiate the TP from the $199 Kindle? The Kindle was the hot item over the holidays at the hot price. It's one thing to say that HP should have tried to do this but it's another to invest about a billion dollars towards the effort. Remember that, for a holiday sale, you have to build the devices first so that they can be delivered by Christmas otherwise there is no sale.
    The TouchPad has a 10in screen and the Kindle Fire has a 7in screen. Hate to tell you this but size does matter. Not too many people like the 7in screen (I think it is more portable). Plus the Kindle Fire is slower (in actual use) and has less hard drive space. The only thing the Fire has going for it for the average consumer is the content. However, what good is content if you don't have the space for it? Oh, and the "cloud" doesn't work if you are in a building that doesn't have wifi or a good cell connection.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    How do you think HP would have been able to differentiate the TP from the $199 Kindle? The Kindle was the hot item over the holidays at the hot price. It's one thing to say that HP should have tried to do this but it's another to invest about a billion dollars towards the effort. Remember that, for a holiday sale, you have to build the devices first so that they can be delivered by Christmas otherwise there is no sale.
    All this speak about "differentiation" is again, upper managment BS speak.

    A lot of my friends bought unknown tablets over the holidays, the Sony Android tablet, The ASUS Transformer etc.

    Why? because they were affordable.

    Were they different than every other Android tablet out there? No.

    How did these tablets differentiate? They didnt. Did they sell like hotcakes over the holidays? Yes.

    Why? Because they were cheap and people really wanted a tablet for christmas.

    Stop letting higher up management officials at companies give you BS speak about terms that they dont even know about so it sounds like they know what they are talking about.

    Differentiation is a useless term, the average public doesnt want something different, they want something similar and safe and understandable.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by siobhanellis View Post
    population of the world: 5 thousand million
    Population of USA: 250 million

    USA, on its own, is not indicative of the whole world.
    Not entirely true though.

    Ignoring the problem with your population numbers (they are -way- off), consider how quickly technology trickles down to lower income regions of the planet.

    For example, there are more than 500 million cell phones in use on the african continent. Consider that for a moment - Africa, home to less than one billion people total, has half a billion cell phones. That's effectively every single adult on the entire continent connected by cell phone. Even crazier, since 1970 the world sales of home PC's is only about 1 billion PC's. In the space of just 12 years, Africa alone has purchased 500 MILLION cell phones for use as mobile communicators -and- computing devices.

    Now think for a second about how quickly this has occurred. When did you get your FIRST crazy-expensive cell phone and cellular plan? If you're like most Americans, you probably didn't have one until the year 2000 or even later - the REALLY early adopter "average americans" might have had a startac back in 1996, and obviously, wealthy individuals could have had one a few years prior to that.

    So if you bought your first cell phone like I did back in the year 2000 or so, that means it's been 12 years. And look at this thing, this is what we were using 12 years ago!!!



    So in the space of 12 years we've went from the first widespread adoption of relatively expensive cell-phones in the US, to half of the population of Africa owning one and using it to browse the internet/make calls/text message/connect to the WORLD. You see similar insane figures coming out of china and india, and many other second and third world countries. In these parts of the world, mobile computing is a BIG deal.

    Now think about what the target pricepoint was for the "one laptop per child" program that was big news a handful of years back. 100$. 100$ means children in africa could own a laptop. How much did I pay for a 16gb touchpad that is WORLDS better than any of those "one laptop per child" devices? 100$. Right now there are quite a few cheap android tablets on the market coming out of china that sell for under 100$, and as time goes on I have no doubt that a ubiquitous 50$-100$ tablet will arrive and become the de-facto standard for cheap mobile computing in these second and third world countries.

    As the price for these touchscreen tablets drop even further, we are GOING to see an insane increase in world adoption. Over the next 10-12 years (and likely faster due to the accelerating nature of tech adoption), we are going to see a similar rise in tablets in Africa as we have seen in cell phones. It makes PERFECT sense. My touchpad for example can handle a full day of computing use without breaking a sweat - literally hour upon hour upon hour of use. It works as an entertainment device, a media player, a gaming device, a learning/education device, a writing device, and most importantly it can be utilized for Internet and communication. This confluence of capabilities and extreme battery life would make such a device EXTREMELY desirable for these sorts of third world situations.

    In fact, imho world use of tablet computers will massively outstrip the numbers of sales in the US itself, as these markets are larger and more in need of a cheap portable device that can handle their day-to-day life. The average joe's of the "rest of the world" have cut their teeth on mobile computing and mobile internet in the palm of their hand. They are going to want the "next step" in this evolution. We all know how much nicer it is using a tablet vs squinting at a small cellphone screen. In a country where there are massively more cell phones than televisions, a device like a touchpad would provide a media hub the likes of which many of these families couldn't have dreamed of affording and having in their homes.

    This isn't a niche market. Tablet sales are heading for the freaking MOON as average joe's in Africa and China and India get on board. We're headed toward full adoption here in the US as well - our kids are raised on this sort of mobile computing. I was standing in a hallway of a university a few days ago and as I looked down the hallway there were close to 60 people standing along the sides of the hallway, EVERY SINGLE ONE WITH A CELL PHONE OUT BEING USED! The madcap craze for purchasing the touchpad is an indication of this insanity. Someone's going to come out with a quality 100$ tablet device and suddenly -everyone- is going to own one.
    New to webOS? Here's my definitive Get Started guide: http://forums.webosnation.com/hp-tou...ted-guide.html

    Want to dual boot Android on your Touchpad? Here's my guide: http://forums.webosnation.com/androi...ted-guide.html
    trexlee001 and sledge007 like this.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    Any suggestion that Best Buy is irrelevant or that the Kindle Fire hasn't caught on with consumers is highly dubious, if you ask me. And, are we really going to debate whether or not products that are priced higher than the competition need to differentiate?
    No one is saying that Best Buy is irrelevant or that the Fire hasn't caught on. You read too much into my statement. If Best Buy is 20% of the market, what about the other 80%? I wouldn't base the health of the sales of my products on a store that only covers 1/5th of the market. That is a small window. The other 4/5ths count.

    You ask about differentiation between the Fire and the TouchPad. Well you can look at them and tell the difference. HP doesn't need to work hard on that account. The screen size alone justifies a higher price for the TouchPad. It gets tricky when you start talking about content and value to the consumer.
  13. #13  
    Regardless of the numbers, the point of the OP is valid, Tablets have become a huge market and Leo didn't see that nor grasp the significance of it. If he had, even if the TP had enough issues such that they needed to drop back an retool and retry, he would not have just abandoned the market totally as he did. (Unless, of course he was such a complete ***** that he was going to dump all HP computer hardware to focus on Enterprise software solutions...er,huh, hmmmm...)

    Now maybe the decision would have been to go with Android or Windows or whatever instead of WebOS, but they did have advantages of scale, marketing and distribution that could have put them ahead of all the non-apple manufacturers out there. WebOS or not webOS, HP shoulda/coulda been the #2 tablet maker going into 2012.


    Hey now, Post 1600!
  14. samab's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    You ask about differentiation between the Fire and the TouchPad. Well you can look at them and tell the difference. HP doesn't need to work hard on that account. The screen size alone justifies a higher price for the TouchPad. It gets tricky when you start talking about content and value to the consumer.
    I rather have differentiation between the TouchPad and the iPad.

    For all the much trashed talks about the Playbook --- with last week's analysis of ad impression counts --- the ranking was (1) ipad, (2) Kindle Fire and (3) Playbook. The two 10 inchers (the Galaxy and the Xoom) were 4th and 5th.

    For non-ipad tablets, the 7 inchers are performing better than the 10 inchers.
  15. #15  
    Poor sales alone didn't killed the Touchpad. I babied my $500 TP, after 4 months it had a major crack and a second minor one and it spent 100% of its like in a $50 case that is warping and deforming like crazy. There is a major quality control problem that HP can ignore by killing the pad and blowing them out at $99. Where as supporting it at higher price point means having to address and re-engineer major design flaws.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Not trying to be combative with you but I call BS on this statement. Yes, Best Buy may be 20% of the electronics market, but what about the other 80%? If Best Buy screws something up (like not offering rebates on the TouchPad when everyone else was) that doesn't mean it will effect the overall market. Best Buy putting tablets up front "now" is a joke. The last time I was in my local Best Buy tablets were in the back left corner. Doing this "now" has diddly squat to do with what happened in July and August of last year. Today's hyper competitive market is moving towards online purchasing of electronics and devices. Want to have some fun? Look up the cost of a standard (6ft) HDMI cable at Best Buy, then look up the cost on Amazon. The cheapest cable at Best Buy is 2-3 times more than an average cable on Amazon, and thats if you order the cable online from Best Buy. If you go into the store the cheapest one you can find is usually around $25. Best Buy is definitely not a good barometer of the tech market anymore, unless you are buying a TV. Amazon would be a better gauge. Walmart and Costco do better on the TVs.

    Oh, and before you say I'm biased, I have a Best Buy credit card and usually buy my electronics I can't get online there. I bought my TouchPad there. I never ask them for advice because their associates are clueless and I never go to them to fix my electronics because the Geek Squad is a joke.

    BTW, my local Staples has tablets up front and the TouchPad sold well there according to the manager.
    This looks like plagiarism to me. I would have put it exactly this way; especially about BestBuy. I, too, buy from them infrequently, but mainly PC games and small components. I believe HP may have jumped too soon, also. However, you make a business plan and stick to it. Unless that is, you have evidence to support otherwise.
    **Intelligence is God given; Wisdom is the sum of our mistakes!**

    • As a top contributor to the HP Consumer Support Forums, HP provides me access to the Tochpad at no charge so I may better respond to the questions raised on the Forum.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by old_geekster View Post
    This looks like plagiarism to me. I would have put it exactly this way; especially about BestBuy. I, too, buy from them infrequently, but mainly PC games and small components. I believe HP may have jumped too soon, also. However, you make a business plan and stick to it. Unless that is, you have evidence to support otherwise.
    Isn't plagiarism a form of flattery?

    I sure hope HP, who has over 30 retailers on tap, didn't make a business plan that says:

    If the TouchPad does ok everywhere else instead of Best Buy, which represents just 1/5th of the market, we need to dump it quickly and move on.

    I think there is more to this than just Best Buy's sales. I agree with OP, Leo jumped the gun. Which is why he is currently unemployed.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Isn't plagiarism a form of flattery?

    I sure hope HP, who has over 30 retailers on tap, didn't make a business plan that says:

    If the TouchPad does ok everywhere else instead of Best Buy, which represents just 1/5th of the market, we need to dump it quickly and move on.

    I think there is more to this than just Best Buy's sales. I agree with OP, Leo jumped the gun. Which is why he is currently unemployed.
    Ya, that's right.

    No, what I think actually happened is Leo, as they call him, was badgered into going with TP against his will. So, he set unrealistic goals for its success and it failed as he hoped. Sound possible?? I was an upper mid-manager and saw instances of this happening.
    **Intelligence is God given; Wisdom is the sum of our mistakes!**

    • As a top contributor to the HP Consumer Support Forums, HP provides me access to the Tochpad at no charge so I may better respond to the questions raised on the Forum.
  19. #19  
    I wholly agree with ncinerate's statements, adding that more and more satellites will populate the equator and habitable regions of the northern and southern hemispheres, it will not be long before the world is totally connected, total mobile global WiFi and phone, no boundries, I mean, totally seamless, access from anywhere in the world, unless in a cave or bunker somewhere....it is already happening, just needs to be filled in a bit.....

    Companies that look to the future and adapt are the ones that will dominate, HP missed this opportunity, doesn't mean they can't go back to the drawing boards and get it together again....I like WebOS, it just needed/needs more developement, as the world adapts and modernizes, there will be a falling to the wayside of less popular OS's, one OS will probably end up dominating, it makes the model work better...

    Best Buy is a small player, a dying breed....Geek Squad, you got to be kidding, LOL...

    Onward...

    Laterzzz
    32g and playing
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    If Amazon is where it's at then:

    1) Why are they even bothering to sell the Kindle Fire through Best Buy?
    2) Why are people buying their Kindle Fire at Best Buy? Have they not heard of Amazon?
    For people who are impatient, people who are impulsive driven shoppers and people who are prone to see something that is under the remaining credit available on their best buy card and finance it.

    Honestly, it makes perfect sense. There is a huge market for immediate gratification people.. always has been.. alway will be.

    Walmart has been selling all forms of kindle for quite awhile now.. Never underestimate the impulsive shopper who sees something in front of him/her and has to have it.. In fact there are entire businesses out there that survive ONLY because of the impulsive shopper.
    k4ever and sledge007 like this.
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