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  1. #81  
    They didn't hedge their bets only on Best Buy.
    If you believe the numbers thrown around here (by the naysayers) and what was released in the Best Buy story before the August announcement, HP sent 250,000 TouchPads from their initial stock to Best Buy. If you believe the other numbers that were thrown out (only 800,000 TouchPad owners to date), that is a whopping 31% of the total units sold to date. Best Buy wasn't even offering the rebates that HP put in place for the TouchPad. Pretty much everyone else was. How did Best Buy expect to sell a sizeable number of units at full price when their competitors, the other 80% of the market, were selling the units at over $100 less? If Apotheker really wanted to fix the stock issue with Best Buy he would have convinced them to offer the rebates or announce that HP was giving direct rebates to new Best Buy TouchPad owners. Seems to me that he just used the issues at Best Buy as an excuse instead of offering real solutions.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
  2. #82  
    At the time of the TP launch, Best Buy had almost a third of the US marketshare for consumer electronics sales. So, if you plan to sell anywhere near a million TPs, then I imagine you should send something like 250K to Best Buy. Especially, if they are giving you a separate display and flagship tablet status. If someone is wanting to try out a TP, I'll bet Best Buy is, by far, the number one destination that comes to mind.

    If they aren't selling, Best Buy will know pretty quick. If they tell you there is a problem and they can't move them, you had better listen and do something fast. You don't screw Best Buy and stay in the consumer electronics business. Tonight's Florida primary is an example of the statistical power of sampling - they can call the election results with less than 20% of precincts reporting. Similarly, there is no such thing as a tablet not selling at Best Buy, yet being a hit at other retail electronic outlets. It's pretty absurd to think that companies like HP an Best Buy don't know how this works.
    You missed several points. First off Best Buy was selling the TouchPad at full price while everyone else was selling it at a rebate. I bought my TouchPad on launch day at Best Buy for full price, but if I had waited a while I could have got it from Staples for $100 less. You have to be a fool to bypass Wal-Mart, Staples, and others to pay $100 more at Best Buy. Don't you think that effected sales? Second, HP should have compared the sales of the TouchPad versus the sales of other tablets at Best Buy. There was no indication that any other tablet not named iPad was doing well. Third, HP had already begun rolling out the TouchPad overseas to some pretty major markets. Why pull a product based on sales from one U.S. store when you have a whole global market to contend with? This is not an election were you know how many register voters are in a precinct and how many precincts are required to win a primary in a state. The tablet market is growing faster than most people have predicted, there is no set number of customers to base findings on, and new markets are emerging.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
  3. #83  
    The tablet market is growing for iOS and Android. Best Buy has tons of traffic and a lot of HP product.

    Why didn't people buy it at Walmart and Staples and cause enough demand for HP to shift the Best Buy stock to other retailers?

    It appears you are putting on blinders are trying to create a alternate reality.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    The tablet market is growing for iOS and Android. Best Buy has tons of traffic and a lot of HP product.

    Why didn't people buy it at Walmart and Staples and cause enough demand for HP to shift the Best Buy stock to other retailers?

    It appears you are putting on blinders are trying to create a alternate reality.
    No one is trying to create an alternate reality except the folks who believe that HP did right by webOS and the PSG with the August announcement. Why did HP send so much of their stock to one store? No one here knows the answer to any of these questions. I have not recieved one answer from you guys. None of what happened to webOS or the TouchPad makes sense when compared to the rest of the tablet market at the time.

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
  5. #85  
    Why did HP send so much of their stock to one store?
    Especially a store like Best Buy that focuses on already successful products. Best Buy doesn't reduce price and cut into their profit margin to move stock, instead they ship unsold stock back to the manufacturer.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Willard View Post
    Especially a store like Best Buy that focuses on already successful products. Best Buy doesn't reduce price and cut into their profit margin to move stock, instead they ship unsold stock back to the manufacturer.
    Manufacturers move stock from retailer to retailer all the time. That's how shipments and returns are handled.

    As hindsight is 20/20, it's a bit difficult to gripe that Best Buy took 250K units of a new HP product where in their own store the only real competition was selling millions.

    This didn't keep stock away from Amazon or Walmart or Staples.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Manufacturers move stock from retailer to retailer all the time. That's how shipments and returns are handled.

    As hindsight is 20/20, it's a bit difficult to gripe that Best Buy took 250K units of a new HP product where in their own store the only real competition was selling millions.

    This didn't keep stock away from Amazon or Walmart or Staples.
    When Staples did the $100 off weekend, all of the local stores were sold out but 1. I think it ended up being 1 out of 10+ in a 50 mile radius.

    People in NY state were reporting every Staples around them was sold out. I don't know about their initial stock, but they were selling out with the Staples $100 off any tablet weekend.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  8. #88  
    Manufacturers move stock from retailer to retailer all the time. That's how shipments and returns are handled.

    As hindsight is 20/20, it's a bit difficult to gripe that Best Buy took 250K units of a new HP product where in their own store the only real competition was selling millions.

    This didn't keep stock away from Amazon or Walmart or Staples.

    I didn't gripe that stock was kept off the market, just that best buy has a ****ty sales model.

    Edit: ****ty wrt the customer not the investor, they make hella profit
    Last edited by Willard; 02/01/2012 at 12:20 PM.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    well hell i looked at this thread the other day and saw no responses. Clearly i missed some discussions lol.

    Leo didn't get fired for canceling WebOS. He got fired for because the board didn't like him and didn't like the decision to split off and sell PSG. And they reversed that decision to split of PSG. But they surely didn't backtrack and decide the correct decision was to put lots more money into WebOS. What you don't hear HP is we should not have stopped making webos phones. Make no mistake. After he was gone they decided NOT to sell Webos anything.
    Your points are a valid opinion, but overlook significant points of fact:

    1) Leo got fired because of the reaction of the market to his moves... his judgment overall. They didn't like losing market value, but if or not they didn't like him is a subjective judgment unless you have some additional information. There was little buzz from the BOD until after the the stock value didn't bounce back after a few days as some expected it to do.

    2) The computer side of the PSG was and established division and was NOT shut down. webOS was a in essence start up and was killed. It didn't cost a penny to not follow through on a proposed spin-off. It would have cost hundreds of millions to re-activate a terminated webOS. Note also that the Autonomy deal had also been announced, so cash flow was likely too tight to then try to do both. Backing out of a $10 billion dollar Autonomy deal would have been much more expensive.

    3) Unless Meg was totally blowing smoke up the public skirt, (a possibility), they actually DID consider resurrecting webOS, but concluded that it was not feasible.

    4) The phone issue was not in their hands, the carriers soured on HP and were not going to play with them. This is why (in reference to another discussion in this thread) ineptitude does impact the bottom line, even through an SEC filing will not show it. Missed deadlines contributed to the cutting off a stream of revenue, since they could no longer find multiple US carriers for phones.



    C
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    When Staples did the $100 off weekend, all of the local stores were sold out but 1. I think it ended up being 1 out of 10+ in a 50 mile radius.

    People in NY state were reporting every Staples around them was sold out. I don't know about their initial stock, but they were selling out with the Staples $100 off any tablet weekend.
    I remember that but I did not have a link to provide evidence of it so I left it alone. Staples was selling out while Best Buy sat on its stock. What I don't understand for the umpteenth time is why Best Buy was used as a barometer for the TouchPad's success. They were selling the device for over $100 more than their competition and their competition was selling out. Amazon was temporarily out of TouchPads also during that time. The OP is right in writing that Leo (Apotheker) grossly mismanaged the whole scenario. I believe that he pulled a competitive piece of hardware off the market because he feared what its success would do to his plan to turn HP into a software centric company. Now HP has been surpassed by just one Apple's products. The product the TouchPad was competing with. It will be close to a year before HP will have another tablet on the market. If it is a Windows 8 tablet, they are essential starting from scratch again.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I remember that but I did not have a link to provide evidence of it so I left it alone.
    Yeah, my evidence was me personally looking (didn't take a screen cap) when the Best Buy rumor hit and there was a thread going on about it and people saying no one was selling them. So I did a local search and found all the Staples around me sold out.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  12. #92  
    Staples has 1,871 stores in the US. It's clear they didn't order 100 units per store as that would have been 180K units.

    Radio Shack has over 4,000 stores in the US.
    Last edited by rnld; 02/01/2012 at 04:03 PM.
  13. #93  
    Staples has 1,871 stores in the US. It's clear they didn't order 100 units per store as that would have been 180K units.

    Radio Shack has over 4,000 stores in the US.
    Where did you get the 100 units per store figure? I would have guessed maybe 20 units per store. Most Radio Shack stores outside of the Malls are mom and pop. I didn't think they would carry anything so exotic.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Where did you get the 100 units per store figure? I would have guessed maybe 20 units per store. Most Radio Shack stores outside of the Malls are mom and pop. I didn't think they would carry anything so exotic.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
    Just saying that being sold out at Staples is a relative point. It depends on how many they had stocked in the first place and why they didn't order more.
  15. #95  
    myself and 3 friends scoured central new York for anywhere that had them $100 off, WORSTbuy was the only retailer with any touchpads in stock and were $100 dollars more.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by toyotast165 View Post
    myself and 3 friends scoured central new York for anywhere that had them $100 off, WORSTbuy was the only retailer with any touchpads in stock and were $100 dollars more.
    And if people waited longer that got them for 99 bucks.

    The question is why didn't any other retailers order more stock? They had stock when it dropped to $99.00.
  17. #97  
    Just saying that being sold out at Staples is a relative point. It depends on how many they had stocked in the first place and why they didn't order more.
    You can say that for one or two stores, but all of the stores in multiple areas selling out is pretty fascinating. Prior to the Best Buy story breaking we were arguing over a negative story Woot! about not being able to move as many TouchPads as this one author thought they should. The author did not take into account that you could get a TouchPad at Staples for less then what Woot! charged. A glitch or something at Staples was allowing double coupons at the time. I believe this caused the shortages at Staples. People were actually taking their TouchPads back to Best Buy, getting a full rebate, then heading over to Staples and buying a new one, then pocketing the difference. Come to think of it, I think this is the real reason why Best Buy was upset with HP. Best Buy probably wasn't offered the same deal. That would make sense. That would make a whole lot of sense. HP should have just let Best Buy do the same thing or transfered their stock to Staples. Either way I believe Leo used the Best Buy blunder as cover to execute his master plan. Here is the Staples story if you don't believe me. Notice it is about a week before the Best Buy story broke:

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390567,00.asp
    http://techblog.dallasnews.com/archi...l-over-th.html


    Hey I found a link with evidence of the Staples sell out!

    http://www.webosroundup.com/2011/08/...-this-weekend/


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
    C-Note likes this.
  18. #98  
    Wow! Reading the comments it looks like HP's online store undercutted Best Buy also! Remember Best Buy was the only store not honoring HP's rebate. Best Buy was definitely not a good barometer of sales for the TouchPad. I would have been seriously upset with HP if I was Best Buy also. How could Leo give Best Buy the shaft like that, then turn around and use them returning inventory as an excuse to kill the product? He didn't stop there either. He upset cell phone carriers by pulling the Pre 3 after they had already started to post advertisements for it. He upset his suppliers because HP pre-ordered parts for these devices and was under contract to purchase them, causing a lot of legal issues. He was a complete moron.

    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
  19. #99  
    Still, Staples didn't order more product until it was $99.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Still, Staples didn't order more product until it was $99.
    I would love to see the insider info you have on this... Staples did the $100 off the 5th, 6th, and 7th of August... webOS was Apothekered the 18th of August. This would be 8 business days, earlier in this thread you were talking about HP pulling stock from BB to restock other retailers. I see this as impossible in 8 business days.

    It is conceivable that the bulk of TP stock as of Monday August 8th was in retailers possession or still in China, maybe possibly in a container on it's way to HP distribution centers. This wasn't an issue of Staples refusing to order more product, in the time frame we are speaking it would have been impossible to get stock into stores (we are talking SOP for an international retailer).

    QVC also sold through all stock ($700+ 32 gig bundles) prior to the fire sale.

    Clearly I am wasting my breath, but I did feel the need to post the facts for other users believing retailers other than BB were having problems moving units or refusing to order stock.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
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