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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    If Amazon is where it's at then:

    1) Why are they even bothering to sell the Kindle Fire through Best Buy?
    2) Why are people buying their Kindle Fire at Best Buy? Have they not heard of Amazon?
    In addition to trexlee001's statement a large advantage to selling in stores like best buy, is that people can actually lay their hands on the device before they purchase it. Even if people test it out at best buy and then purchase it from amazon online, amazon is still getting their money. I can't see why an online company like amazon wouldn't take advantage of selling through retail stores. They may get less of a cut of the profits, but they are expanding their user base.
    k4ever and hrminer92 like this.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by old_geekster View Post
    Ya, that's right.

    No, what I think actually happened is Leo, as they call him, was badgered into going with TP against his will. So, he set unrealistic goals for its success and it failed as he hoped. Sound possible?? I was an upper mid-manager and saw instances of this happening.
    Now you are plagiarizing from me. I said something along the same lines right after this happened. Leo used the poor sales of the TouchPad in one store (albeit a big store) as an excuse to execute his IBM lite strategy.
    old_geekster likes this.
  3. #23  
    1. the world is approaching 7 Billion and the US is over 300 Million. But the US and a few other countries lead in per capita tech. Places like Brazil have < 10 % hi tech.

    2. The touchpad while having QC issues, there are some that made it without these flaws. Mine has none of these issues.

    3. HP computers aren't always the best hardware, maybe that's behind leo wanting out of hardware.

    4. Find a company that makes hardware like Apple, and put a fully optimized webOS on it and I bet you'll have some sales profit.

    5. Yes, Leo made a huge error, and Megan seems to be falling in his footsteps... webOS-SOS is still viable.
    IIIXE>Clie:N710C>N760C>NX60>Treo[600>650>700]>Centro>Pre+>Pre2&Touchpad 32GB
    webOS Themes: star-trek-universe star-trek-future Future Trek for Tpad

    My CV: http://visualcv.com/egadgetguy
  4. #24  
    I still have trouble understanding why those that hate WebOS frequent the WebOS forum to blast it, they obviously weren't loved enough as a baby. Anyway, WebOS' viability as an operating system via tablet or otherwise is still hotly debated. Clearly, it has not failed as much as some would say, or we still wouldn't be debating. Rather I think Palm (mostly due to a series of poor decisions and limited cash) and then HP, particularly Leo failed WebOS. I will say that there is NO debate that Leo Apotheker was a buffoon and over his head. The damage he did to just the Personal PC division of HP's business will take years to repair. To me, there is no question he was an ***** and pulled the plug to early on the Touchpad. I also think the price point was too high, the marketing was poor, the product should've been delayed until it was more polished, etc. Nonetheless, IMHO, WebOS is the best OS I have found to date and I've spent some time on nearly all of them.
    All for One and One for All!
    C-Note likes this.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by rioachim View Post
    "grossly mismanaged" ?!? I think he did the only right thing to let go of this failed project webOS+Touchpad. Quality issues, software issues, limited ecosystem... would only bring bad publicity and higher losses to HP. The worst mistake is that they still invest in webOS which with every update brings new bugs. It kind of reminds me of Nokia and Symbian. Eventually they will shut it down.
    Yes, 3.0.4 had some bugs, but 3.0.5 fixed everything and it's running smooth as how it should've been from start. However, seeing that this was a first release 3.0.x, it wasn't that bad of a start. You could say a whole lot of things about that, but I remember when I bought my Motorola Xoom last year, it was the first tablet to feature the new Android 3.x and it also had some bugs that got fixed with updates (people were even at the point that they wanted to throw the damn thing out of the window). My point being: it is NOT 3.x that brought webOS down. Else Android 3.x would've also gone down. Yes, I know that Android has a lot more apps, but 3.x was buggy and that doesn't weigh in on the lot of apps.
  6. rmeigs's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    All this speak about "differentiation" is again, upper managment BS speak.
    While I agree with the general thrust of you comment, remember that price is a major "differentiation" factor. The TP sold well when it differentiated itself based on price. Differentiation is an important concept, not just BS.
  7. Semma2's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by bldegle2 View Post
    I wholly agree with ncinerate's statements, adding that more and more satellites will populate the equator and habitable regions of the northern and southern hemispheres, it will not be long before the world is totally connected, total mobile global WiFi and phone, no boundries, I mean, totally seamless, access from anywhere in the world, unless in a cave or bunker somewhere....it is already happening, just needs to be filled in a bit.....
    That's the goal, but I think you have an unrealistic view of the difficulties with satellites and with seamlessly integrating systems. Truly engineers have worked miracles behind the scenes to give us the system we have. Too few people appreciate how difficult it was!
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by old_geekster View Post
    Ya, that's right.

    No, what I think actually happened is Leo, as they call him, was badgered into going with TP against his will. So, he set unrealistic goals for its success and it failed as he hoped. Sound possible?? I was an upper mid-manager and saw instances of this happening.
    This, well kinda.

    I don't think he was badgered into going with TP against his will as much as he took over a company that had gone so far into the product, they had to put something out for sale before he could pull it. If he pulled the TP and webOS development from the jump, it would have been his failure to not follow through to market.

    So what does Leo do, he follows through to market, says all the "right" things, while knowing he has put out a product to fail. This is why the plug was pulled so quickly, nobody in their right mind trying to either sell webOS or recoop on the loss would come out and say they were killing the entire product. This was the strategy of someone who never wanted to follow through with the game plan. He devauled webOS and their products instantly with his actions. Labeling webOS and the TouchPad a failure he could then move on with turning HP into the software company he wanted (I mean he had only ran 1 of those into the ground).
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
    old_geekster and Vistaus like this.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Now you are plagiarizing from me. I said something along the same lines right after this happened. Leo used the poor sales of the TouchPad in one store (albeit a big store) as an excuse to execute his IBM lite strategy.
    As you said about plagiarizing. :-)
    **Intelligence is God given; Wisdom is the sum of our mistakes!**

    As a top contributor to the HP Consumer Support Forums, HP provides me access to the Tochpad at no charge so I may better respond to the questions raised on the Forum.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by ncinerate View Post
    This isn't a niche market. Tablet sales are heading for the freaking MOON as average joe's in Africa and China and India get on board. We're headed toward full adoption here in the US as well - our kids are raised on this sort of mobile computing.
    You sir, are totally spot on. People are still thinking about tablets as being a niche market, but as you've illustrated so clearly they're going to be as ubiquitous as the cell phone is.
  11. CHIP72's Avatar
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    #31  
    A few thoughts:

    1) The TouchPad firesale, IMO, directly contributed to people's interest in tablets, because it reached impulse buy price.

    2) Tablets will occupy a similar niche in the U.S. (and 1st world) as video game consoles. They won't replace consoles, but they will complement them and eat into their sales a little.

    2) The 3rd world market is exactly what Microsoft is going after with its Windows Phone 7 strategy, which in turn is tied into its Windows 8 strategy.


    Other notable devices:
    Windows laptops: Asus VivoBook X202E (Windows 8), HP Pavilion g4-1215dx (Windows 7)
    Chromebooks: Samsung Chromebook XE303
    Vistaus likes this.
  12. #32  
    I'm pretty excited about the whole pad hysteria, it will finally afford me the opportunity I've been waiting for to wear a fashionable man-purse!
    hangover-218x300.jpg
    OldSkoolVWLover and k4ever like this.
  13. #33  
    Your attempt to get HP out of the mobile and tablet market and emulate IBM and the rash way you attempted to execute it got it got most of us a great tablet at a super bargain price. RIM is going through similar sales travail but they have no place to go to escape from the mobile market so they must improve their tablet and phones or die. Perhaps Leo was right and without Dave and Bill HP cant compete with Apple and Google and others in mobile. Incidentally I did buy a 64GB BB Playbook because of its smaller size at the current heavy discount and find it to be a nice machine with greater portability than the TP. The HP app store seems to me to be much better and i still consider it my main machine.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmleese View Post
    2 months....


    Pew: 19 percent of American adults now own a tablet, twice as many as in*December

    source: The Verge

    Pew: 19 percent of American adults now own a tablet, twice as many as in December | The Verge


    hardly a niche market & they need to adapt as this platform will surely eat into pc sales...

    though it looks like they'll tie their wagon to banking on MS really pulling off windows 8 being a homerun for tablet use. I'll admit windows 7 was a smash in fixing what Vista should have been in gutting the bugs and bloat, but its quite a big harder to improve on that and achieving a great tablet ui experience...
    the fact that it may be a big market doesn't mean those people want to buy what HP was selling. The products where on the market and they just didn't sell until offered at a price that a company can't sustain. And it's a poor ceo that's just selling it's products at a loss. That doesn't matter to fans of the platform but from a business stand point it matters.

    Also the CEO's job is to manage the whole of HP. Tablets where a small part of it and not even a 10th of it's profit. So i'm not sure i'd call it mismanagement. Also it's interesting to me that Meg has not has some reversal and decided to reboot touchpads and veers and pres. I think she has realized that Webos just didn't get traction with consumers and it was a good choice to cut losses.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  15. #35  
    additionally i'd suspect they looked at momentum of their webos product line and it wasn't on their side. The prior webos devices never started slow and then caught fire and became really successful. I'd bet they just figured if the touchpad veer etc start slow they aren't going to suddenly get better. They had a slight boost from the initial price drop then my understanding is that was it. But i think they were fighting a massive uphill battle. And honestly it seems like in the tablet space it's apple and other. They probably thought they can be just as much an other for cheaper if they make android or windows tablets and not have to fix issues with webos plus benefit from microsoft funding its' own build out and an already popular android that they don't really have to pay to get app developers to buy into. whether it works i don't know but i'd bet they may a cost analysis and it was cheaper.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by old_geekster View Post
    Ya, that's right.

    No, what I think actually happened is Leo, as they call him, was badgered into going with TP against his will. So, he set unrealistic goals for its success and it failed as he hoped. Sound possible?? I was an upper mid-manager and saw instances of this happening.
    This. And the pressure to perform when shareholders were getting nervous.

    From all that we know, his plan going in was to make HP SAP. He grudgingly allowed the webOS folks to move forward, with products that were not ready, so that they would fail and prove his point. I too have seen managers kill off projects their predecessors started because they want sole credit for any successes.

    Again, the whole point of HP taking on webOS was that they had deep pockets, and could see products through several revisions until they had a contender. You do that by spending money, and taking losses. Leo's heart was obviously not in it, and he lost his nerve when profits started slipping.
  17. samab's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by blinktreo View Post
    I too have seen managers kill off projects their predecessors started because they want sole credit for any successes.
    And they don't want to take the blame for any failures for decisions that they didn't make either.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by blinktreo View Post
    Again, the whole point of HP taking on webOS was that they had deep pockets, and could see products through several revisions until they had a contender. You do that by spending money, and taking losses. Leo's heart was obviously not in it, and he lost his nerve when profits started slipping.
    See i think this is the disconnect between what user thing "the point" was and "HP thought the point was."

    First, when HP bought Webos they did not have deep pockets relative to the rest of the tech world. They had around 12 bill in cash which is nice for regular people but compared to companies like Apple and Microsoft which were like in the 60 and 80 billion dollar range they were not cash rich. Then they bought HP and had around 10 point something billion left. The other thing is they did not have money to burn on as they put it "profitless revenue." Remember the report from early last year that said they had no room for "profitless revenue" and there were reports that they were having layoffs in like may and that the "headcount was unsustainable." This is before touchpad even launched. If you're having to layoff people you surely don't have cash to just take losses on something. And keep in mind HP had profits of about 9.7 bill a year. But according to their estimates they would be losing more then $1 billion per year on webos alone. So i just don't think they were in any position to eat losses. They need and needed solid earnings. So where users thing HP had money to just sit and take losses, HP didn't remotely think that. HP on the other hand thought "the point of buying Palm" was to boost profits and not in 4 or 5 years but immediately. I think it's one thing if Palm was just under being profitable. Like it took a 10 million dollar loss. But it was over 300 mill a quarter and according to their report going higher each quarter not lower. That's a pretty big indicator that the webos venture was not in fact going in the right direction profitwise. The loss was getting bigger not smaller which is i'm sure what they hoped and if you intend to have a long term project you want. You want it gradually improving not getting a wider loss.

    As you put it there is shareholder pressure. They have to perform. Products can't just take big losses. And HP's quarters had started to decline from the time Hurd was in office until he got left.

    But generally i think users incorrectly assume that a company with HP's financial situation, that was struggling with declining profits, is just gonna swallow almost 20 percent of the yearly profits. It would have been nice but I never thought that was gonna happen simply because they never had the cash to sustain that level of losses on such a small part of it's company.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  19. #39  
    See i think this is the disconnect between what user thing "the point" was and "HP thought the point was."

    First, when HP bought Webos they did not have deep pockets relative to the rest of the tech world. They had around 12 bill in cash which is nice for regular people but compared to companies like Apple and Microsoft which were like in the 60 and 80 billion dollar range they were not cash rich. Then they bought HP and had around 10 point something billion left. The other thing is they did not have money to burn on as they put it "profitless revenue." Remember the report from early last year that said they had no room for "profitless revenue" and there were reports that they were having layoffs in like may and that the "headcount was unsustainable." This is before touchpad even launched. If you're having to layoff people you surely don't have cash to just take losses on something. And keep in mind HP had profits of about 9.7 bill a year. But according to their estimates they would be losing more then $1 billion per year on webos alone. So i just don't think they were in any position to eat losses. They need and needed solid earnings. So where users thing HP had money to just sit and take losses, HP didn't remotely think that. HP on the other hand thought "the point of buying Palm" was to boost profits and not in 4 or 5 years but immediately. I think it's one thing if Palm was just under being profitable. Like it took a 10 million dollar loss. But it was over 300 mill a quarter and according to their report going higher each quarter not lower. That's a pretty big indicator that the webos venture was not in fact going in the right direction profitwise. The loss was getting bigger not smaller which is i'm sure what they hoped and if you intend to have a long term project you want. You want it gradually improving not getting a wider loss.

    As you put it there is shareholder pressure. They have to perform. Products can't just take big losses. And HP's quarters had started to decline from the time Hurd was in office until he got left.

    But generally i think users incorrectly assume that a company with HP's financial situation, that was struggling with declining profits, is just gonna swallow almost 20 percent of the yearly profits. It would have been nice but I never thought that was gonna happen simply because they never had the cash to sustain that level of losses on such a small part of it's company.
    Lets say you are right in your assessment of HP's financial situation. HP was loosing a small amount of money every year even without webOS. How do they turn it around? They have to invest in something! Mobile devices are the future for any computing company. Why on earth would HP not be in the business of selling them? Making Windows and Android devices would not help them. Those platforms have thin profit margins and HP would struggle to differentiate themselves with the likes of Samsung and HTC. WebOS should promise even before the TouchPad was killed and went on fire sale. People were just waiting for the right price point and more apps. HP should have invested in that. Instead they spent $10 billion buying an enterprise software company. Meanwhile Apple manage to sell more iPads, a mobile device, this year than HP sold computers. HP's temporary exit from the mobile space was premature and stupid. The OP has an excellent point.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
    C-Note likes this.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    See i think this is the disconnect between what user thing "the point" was and "HP thought the point was."

    First, when HP bought Webos they did not have deep pockets relative to the rest of the tech world. They had around 12 bill in cash which is nice for regular people but compared to companies like Apple and Microsoft which were like in the 60 and 80 billion dollar range they were not cash rich..
    Nobody said that. But the comparison is with where webOS came from. Palm was dead so in comparison to Palm, HP did have deep pockets.
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