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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I knew it was more than a digital equalizer. I was a big audiophile and wasted thousands of dollars in my youth on sound equipment... All that expensive stuff in a quest to get the best sound possible. How the artist intended it to be (like the Beats phrase). A waste of money. The equivalent of spending $3000 to get a 10% power increase out of your import car's engine.
    Dont remind me of my days of waste. I spent countless hours writing, debugging and tweaking programs in BASIC that calculated speaker response curves and enclosure dimensions. That was followed up by more time and money going into components, materials and experiments w/ sealed, bass reflex, isobaric and all sorts of box designs and combos. There were also crossover designs and more research than I care to think about. Much of it was a waste (in hindsight) even though I learned a lot and made some $$ from that and related stuff (DJ and recording studio work). I know exactly how you feel and I'd sell my soul to have that money back today.

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz
    For those that care about what EXACTLY Beats Audio is...
    That is not "EXACTLY" what Beats Audio is. It is that and more; the writer of the Engadget piece left out what was probably irrelevant to the review. In short, Beats, as implemented on smartphones seems to be comprised only of the EQ part. That is done in software, and as the writer stated, can be achieved w/ third party apps. I guess we have something similar in TouchVol for the Pre3 and Touchpad. I use it to get boosted lows, mids and high frequencies from the Pre3.

    On the HP laptops and towers, however, Beats Audio is the full implementation of sound isolation circuits, amps, and digital signal processors as well as the equalization. The reason for this? Laptops and desktops obviously have the internal space to accommodate these extra parts; smartphones are already cramped as it is.

    Here's a review of the HP Envy 14 (Denny Atkin):
    The Envy 14’s Beats audio system is similarly impressive and is one area where the Envy clearly outdoes the MacBook Pro. HP isolated the audio components on the motherboard to avoid the interference that can result in static on some PCs, and it also added an amplifier and DSP to boost and enhance the audio. The results on the built-in speakers are extremely good—volume and clarity are far above average for a dual-speaker notebook. Plug the Envy 14 into external speakers or a good set of headphones, though, and you'll find the audio is nothing short of astounding.
    Heres another on a newer unit (Matthew Elliott):
    With Beats audio, HP isolates the audio components on the motherboard to avoid the interference that can result in static on some PCs. The company also added an amplifier and a Digital Signal Processor.
    Now the big question of course is how this all relates to the Touchpad. Is this how its implemented or did HP also just use software and called it Beats? I tried finding some teardowns, DSP info and other info but its difficult to say - although that is what I recall Jimmy Iovine stating at HP's 'Think Beyond' CES event. I dont have a marker because the video is now private (head in the sand? saving themselves the embarrassment? minimizing the humiliation?) but its somewhere in the final third.

    I will say this: if the TP is no different from the HTC Sensation XE and Rezound in implementation, then, to quote k4ever, its '{t}oo much money for so little gain' (although we dont know how much the beats deal cost them and whether its exclusion would have lowered the TP release price). The inclusion of the WM8958 DSP alone would have sufficed; TouchVol would have done the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by old_geekster
    The only disagreement is where Bose speakers are concerned. I have a T20 Home Theater System. It has some of the best sound that I have heard. Not necessarily from a technical stand point, but from pure listening enjoyment.
    Yes, Ive heard good things about the T20, which is a big step up from the 321 Series that I had. I also have experience w/ one of the Lifestyle models (V20???) and that thing gave pure h3ll. There was some firmware issue that would shut the unit down every week or two, requiring a reset. They can have very good sound in mid to small spaces but IMO the satellites were always struggling to keep up w/ the sub. I have also found that the quality was always lacking. For e.g., the subs had cheap drivers w/ no ientifying marks and no foam insulation. This I believe was deliberate because unlike their competitors, Bose historically never liked stating specs. Maybe they have come around but I wont be finding out directly.

    Because we've all agreed to disagree to agree, you guys have me doing more research and reading than I care to. Thats cool because Im learning more. In the end though, my position is the same: we're complaining about a non-issue while not taking the time to understand things a bit. Beats is a solution to a problem that no phone or tablet user has: a need for isolated, 'specialized' audio. Quality speakers, a decent DSP and a media player w/ EQ could have achieved the same - more even, since the EQ would allow for adjusting more bands than just lows and highs. That way, ppl who like Blues, Jazz, Classical, etc. would also be able to experience what the artist intended.

    I personally dont care for Beats because to me, it makes sense only on the PC - for which there are much better solutions anyway. It's for the discriminating CE consumer but it is not the stuff of audiophiles. Its for those who loves a fad and to be honest, there will soon be something else competing for our dollars. But ultimately, it does what the marketing says.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by p41m3r View Post
    Because we've all agreed to disagree to agree, you guys have me doing more research and reading than I care to. Thats cool because Im learning more. In the end though, my position is the same: we're complaining about a non-issue while not taking the time to understand things a bit. Beats is a solution to a problem that no phone or tablet user has: a need for isolated, 'specialized' audio. Quality speakers, a decent DSP and a media player w/ EQ could have achieved the same - more even, since the EQ would allow for adjusting more bands than just lows and highs. That way, ppl who like Blues, Jazz, Classical, etc. would also be able to experience what the artist intended.
    This is what I see as the best part of forums. I have learned more from members disagreeing with me than any other source. As you stated, you had to research the subject further. Honest and cordial debate is great!! Thanks for sharing your insight.
    **Intelligence is God given; Wisdom is the sum of our mistakes!**

    • As a top contributor to the HP Consumer Support Forums, HP provides me access to the Tochpad at no charge so I may better respond to the questions raised on the Forum.
    OldSkoolVWLover likes this.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by p41m3r View Post
    That is not "EXACTLY" what Beats Audio is. It is that and more; the writer of the Engadget piece left out what was probably irrelevant to the review. In short, Beats, as implemented on smartphones seems to be comprised only of the EQ part. That is done in software, and as the writer stated, can be achieved w/ third party apps. I guess we have something similar in TouchVol for the Pre3 and Touchpad. I use it to get boosted lows, mids and high frequencies from the Pre3.

    On the HP laptops and towers, however, Beats Audio is the full implementation of sound isolation circuits, amps, and digital signal processors as well as the equalization. The reason for this? Laptops and desktops obviously have the internal space to accommodate these extra parts; smartphones are already cramped as it is.

    Here's a review of the HP Envy 14 (Denny Atkin):
    Quote:
    The Envy 14’s Beats audio system is similarly impressive and is one area where the Envy clearly outdoes the MacBook Pro. HP isolated the audio components on the motherboard to avoid the interference that can result in static on some PCs, and it also added an amplifier and DSP to boost and enhance the audio. The results on the built-in speakers are extremely good—volume and clarity are far above average for a dual-speaker notebook. Plug the Envy 14 into external speakers or a good set of headphones, though, and you'll find the audio is nothing short of astounding.

    Heres another on a newer unit (Matthew Elliott):
    Quote:
    With Beats audio, HP isolates the audio components on the motherboard to avoid the interference that can result in static on some PCs. The company also added an amplifier and a Digital Signal Processor.
    That's not Beat's Audio, that is HP's patented signal integrity techniques.
    Hear all the music.
    Experience the studio-quality music the artist intended you to with Beats™ Audio. HP audio engineers collaborated with Interscope records to deliver the best available audio experience through digital headphones or an external speaker system. HP ENVY’s internal audio signal routing uses HP-patented signal integrity techniques to eliminate low-level noise typically experienced with PC audio.
    Beat's Audio is what the engadget dude described, it is an EQ setting that is optimized for their branded headphones and speakers, from the sound of it I am not sure I will be busting out Beat's for my Chopin Nocturnes any time soon...
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    That's not Beat's Audio, that is HP's patented signal integrity techniques.

    Beat's Audio is what the engadget dude described, it is an EQ setting that is optimized for their branded headphones and speakers...
    It may very well be and not used in collaboration. I picked up on that in reading as well - adding to things, and I find it strange that Beats' site is scarce on specs. The above-quoted even pointed that 'HP added' those components but at one point, I heard from one engineer then read other things elsewhere. Iovine, in describing the tech and vowing to rescue music, pretty much passed off the isolation and amp as Beats. Oh well! I think I've done enough reading for now; even if its finally getting my interest.

    ...from the sound of it I am not sure I will be busting out Beat's for my Chopin Nocturnes any time soon...
    Good for you! It wasnt meant for that to begin w/. If you're into signature stuff (celeb worship) then Tony Bennett and Quincy Jones each have a series that are a bit higher on the quality chain - the latter by proven engineers.

    Quote Originally Posted by old_geekster
    This is what I see as the best part of forums. I have learned more from members disagreeing with me than any other source. As you stated, you had to research the subject further. Honest and cordial debate is great!! Thanks for sharing your insight.
    Yes, it is always mostly an educational experience for me; hardly ever a debate. Even when it gets crazy I take something from it. In this case the topic barely interests me, but the divergence like the tech, collaboration and marketing, I found fascinating.

    The 'research' came about as a way to let off some steam. I was forced into it when my SIM racing session prematurely ended, but ultimately I was better for it.
    And I owe it to this thread
    old_geekster likes this.
  5. samab's Avatar
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    #25  
    I have detailed Beats Audio months ago.

    Beats Audio --- advertised by that silly retro video --- represents 4 things:

    (1) Beats Audio has special headphone jacks made out of plastics to isolate noise. Plastics is cheaper than metal (hell you have people stealing copper cables) --- so basically everybody has that kind of setup.

    (2) Beats Audio has a dedicated audio chip instead of cheap integrated audio chip (that is built within say the southbridge part of a SiS chipset).

    Sure if you buy some Asus motherboard, you have some cheap integrated audio built within the southbridge chipset. The problem is that ALL smartphones and tablets have dedicated audio chips --- and they all came from one particular audio chipset manufacturer. That particular audio chipset manufacturer supply the audio chips for the TouchPad, the Playbook and a zillion different Android devices --- with the TouchPad's audio chip getting 2 better features.

    (3) Beats Audio has better Amp. This is true.

    The FIRST difference between the dedicated audio chip in the TouchPad and the dedicated audio chip in other tablets (like the Playbook) --- is that the TouchPad amp has 2x2w of power and the Playbook amp has a 2x1w of power.

    However this is offset by back facing speakers (TouchPad) vs. front facing speakers (Playbook).

    (4) Beats Audio profile --- this is similar to Microsoft Windows media player with SRS WOW and SRS Trubass. If you have an old computer and you turn SRS WOW and Trubass on, it slows down your computer because all the audio processing is done by software. The SECOND difference for the TouchPad audio chip is that all this audio profile processing is done in hardware.

    Say if RIM wants to license SRS WOW and Trubass for the Playbook --- it would not work because the Playbook can't do those audio process in the audio chip (because the Playbook has a slightly cheaper audio chip than the TouchPad). And you can't do that with software because it would (1) slow down the Playbook because of increased CPU usage and (2) increased CPU usage eats too much battery life.

    Monster Cable has ZERO experience and ZERO patents in this area vs. SRS has decades of experience and tons of patents --- and the problem is that most people can't stand SRS WOW and SRS Trubass and turn them both off on their computers.
    Last edited by samab; 01/21/2012 at 06:45 PM.
  6. #26  
    but.. DR DRE!!!!!!
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
    toaste and Rnp like this.
  7. #27  
    Lets not detract. The guy is actually great at what he does; genius at times. He is just not the type of engineer that the Beats fanatic thinks he is.
  8. Honis's Avatar
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    #28  
    In Dr. Dre's defense, the tagline for Beats is "hear your favorite artists the way they want to be heard." So, with a full Beats setup, you're supposed to be hearing the song with the target EQ levels. From the setups I've been able to experience this usually means heavy clear bass and normal levels everywhere else.

    I can't hear a difference between my Touchpad and Galaxy Tab 10.1 when I use my Bose QuietComfort 15 headphones. The Touchpads speakers however wipe the floor with the Tabs speakers.


    Before anyone knocks me for using Bose anything, the headphones are the best active noise canceling over the ear headphones I've ever used. I put them on in a plane (737 usually) and the engine noise goes way down and in a server room the 80+dB fan noise literally disappears. In the noise cancelling arena I find them about equal to these: David Clark H10-00 (Headphones Only) - Sporty's Pilot Shop
    In terms of audio quality I'd say they equal other Bose headphones (ie, close but not quiet studio quality headphones.)
    I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
    Device history: *free feature Phone*x3 -> LG Rumor -> Palm Pre -> HTC Arrive (3days) -> Samsung Nexus S 4G (28 days) -> Samsung Galaxy S II Sprint Epic 4G Touch -> Palm Pre -> Pre 3
  9. #29  
    We all know touchpad speakers sound better than lots of other tablets. But is this b/c of Beats or is it a combination of bigger speakers, bigger amp, and well designed internal casing space for the sound to work with (remember, touchpad is "fat")? I tend to give Beats no credit but that's coming from an old grump. At the end of the day, talking about quality this and quality that about phone/tablet/laptop speakers is like pretending Big Mac tastes like kobe beef.
  10. P_Yiddy's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    At the end of the day, talking about quality this and quality that about phone/tablet/laptop speakers is like pretending Big Mac tastes like kobe beef.
    Word.

    Anyone serious about their audio quality shouldn't be using a tablet to listen to their digital music.
  11. Honis's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by P_Yiddy View Post
    Word.

    Anyone serious about their audio quality shouldn't be using a tablet to listen to their digital music.
    How serious are we talking because:

    Anyone serious about audio quality isn't using digital anything.


    (This is meant as sarcasm and I admit a little trollish.)
    I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
    Device history: *free feature Phone*x3 -> LG Rumor -> Palm Pre -> HTC Arrive (3days) -> Samsung Nexus S 4G (28 days) -> Samsung Galaxy S II Sprint Epic 4G Touch -> Palm Pre -> Pre 3
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    #32  
    It's a fair point. Vinyl rules in my house but obviously have MP3s for out and about. It just never occurred to me to listen to them through the TP (apart from as background music).

    Would always choose my dedicated MP3 player (Cowon S9) for 'serious' listening.
  13. #33  
    It's a fair point. Vinyl rules in my house but obviously have MP3s for out and about. It just never occurred to me to listen to them through the TP (apart from as background music).

    Would always choose my dedicated MP3 player (Cowon S9) for 'serious' listening.
    I use my TouchPad as my primary music player at home (speakers) and when I am sitting at my desk at work (Bluetooth head phones). I use my EVO 3D, iPod, or the radio when in the car. My wife uses her TouchPad to play music at work also. I have the TouchVol program from Preware that boost the volume and bass. The speakers on the TouchPad sounds awesome with some nice deep bass.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by P_Yiddy View Post
    Vinyl rules in my house but obviously have MP3s for out and about.
    Its really cool that you've stuck w/ vinyl; I applaud that. I'd love to make it my main thing again. I even miss that hiss from a cassette tape deck and would trade my pile of digital stuff for one of decent quality. But I dont know. Right now its a question of practicality.

    In addition to the world of convenience and unique applications to be had in digital, to quite a few ppl, the old time, experiences and 'pure' sound has only nostalgic value today. Im not there yet but I do see collector tables, $25,000+ tubes and speakers and loads of vinyl relegated to dust piles in attics and basements. Not to mention the rapidly changing times we live in and the last generation of music lovers who wont recognize a walkman if it fell on their heads (but thats another topic ).

    I have major frustrations w/ digital, from ripping my entire collection a few times (higher rates, LAME codec, FLAC, etc.) to re-encoding back to 128 so I can fit as much on a 16GB Pre3. Those headaches wont make me get out the SL-1200 though. As much as I appreciate vinyl and its baggage, for now, they will be substituted w/ the iZotope plugin. uhmm... what were we talking about again?
  15. #35  
    I use Beats Solo HD headphones which i picked up off a guy for fairly cheaper, and find the sound while listening to HD radio is phenomenal. I hear every little instrument clearly whereas before it sounded like all instruments were jumbled together. It could just be my imagination but I am very pleased with the sound with the combination of the TP and the solo HD headphones.
  16. #36  
    since when was it ever stated or implied that I need Beats by Dre headphones to hear the difference of Beats on my touchpad?

    That's a joke. You don't need one to pick up on the other.

    I have a nice pair of Seinheisser HD's - and I can hear the difference just fine when I toggle it on and off. It's subtle but its there
    Last edited by mlkmade; 01/25/2012 at 02:24 PM.
  17. #37  
    Screw Beats Headphones..

    All I have to say is... Radius Atomic Bass 2. Enough said!
  18. #38  
    Beats audio does not make music sound the way the artist intended, it makes music sound the way we WANT. Music made to sound as the artist intended should have a flat EQ and speakers or headphones that adhere to a flat EQ as much as possible. There's a reason why you don't see professional studios or professional audio engineers using BEATS headphones, they use Shure, Sennheiser, AKG and the likes. My Sennheiser 280HD's cost less than BEATS and sound far better.
    FrankenPre+ on Sprint SERO 500 Premium
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by pengc99 View Post
    Beats audio does not make music sound the way the artist intended, it makes music sound the way we WANT. Music made to sound as the artist intended should have a flat EQ and speakers or headphones that adhere to a flat EQ as much as possible. There's a reason why you don't see professional studios or professional audio engineers using BEATS headphones, they use Shure, Sennheiser, AKG and the likes. My Sennheiser 280HD's cost less than BEATS and sound far better.
    I have Shure headphones and Beats Solo HD headphones and prefer the beats ones.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by mapenn View Post
    I've had to turn beats audio off on all my Touchpads so that we can understand each other when using Skype. Honestly, can anyone really tell the difference when it is on or off?
    I can tell the difference I'm using beats by Dre mixr and beats audio honestly sounds legit (:
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