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  1. #61  
    In regards to the context of this closure being against the backdrop of (the then plan) of getting rid of the PSG, interesting article about IBM:
    Wait, because is not so simple... the IBM sold "pero no mucho" his hardware's area, because still continue giving support to hardware sold by Lenovo, and this is very different of HP while has Hurd as CEO, that was keeping the HP in a good road. Is not good read and believe "blindly" in everything.

    Considering that the Pre and Pre Plus were "abandoned" in Feb 2011 and left with 1.4.5 software, there has not been an overwhelming owner loyalty base for WebOS.
    Maybe I'm wrong; and usually I am, but I believe that there is 2.1.0 for Pre Plus EU; so, not all problems come from HP, but include your carrier, too.

    Another take on this story from an insider:

    Quote:
    With the early webOS releases, there were scrambles to fix issues on software and hardware, and then a classic second system syndrome kicked in. Many shortcuts were in place, so people wanted to go in and fix those problems and “build it right”.

    The rise and fall of webOS is an epic tale; webOS != Web OS on Dion Almaer's Blog
    Other "bla, bla, bla" trying to blame the SO, forgetting completly that the iOS was very raw in begining, Android was more than raw begining but his companies has invested to spread yours SO and Devices.

    "I remember going into Sprint stores asking for a Palm Pre and being told “hey, get a Blackberry instead!"

    A PERFECT example that the problem was ADVERTISING, and not SO. In described case, claps for RIM...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Other "bla, bla, bla" trying to blame the SO, forgetting completly that the iOS was very raw in begining, Android was more than raw begining but his companies has invested to spread yours SO and Devices.

    "I remember going into Sprint stores asking for a Palm Pre and being told hey, get a Blackberry instead!"

    A PERFECT example that the problem was ADVERTISING, and not SO. In described case, claps for RIM...


    Best Regards...
    Dion is not blaming webOS. Dion is saying that webOS 1.0 was a beta, and when they released it they started to be rushed to fix its holes, and that's what Palm has been doing since original pre release until HP bought them. They (sort of) didn't followed a roadmap (software wise), but spent their time and resources in redrawing the map.
    Newness Developments apps:

  3. #63  
    Another really good article.
    Again, makes me think the main cause...
    Ruby piloted the webos ship into the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
  4. #64  
    Dion is not blaming webOS. Dion is saying that webOS 1.0 was a beta, and when they released it they started to be rushed to fix its holes, and that's what Palm has been doing since original pre release until HP bought them.
    Yes, begining from fact that the webOS was lauched in "beta stage" and forget that ALL other SO/devices begun in same stage is blame it. The Palm and HP simply don't spread enough. The system problems can be solved with the time...

    The problem with webOS as what the WSJ told: the SO has no chance.

    Ruby piloted the webos ship into the ground.
    With THIS, I agree.


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  5. #65  
    threads merged
  6. gbp
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    In regards to the context of this closure being against the backdrop of (the then plan) of getting rid of the PSG, interesting article about IBM:



    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/bu...oxed.html?_r=2
    Mr.Palmisano was right a decade back. Not now. Its the dumbest thing to get rid of the PC business. The issue is with innovation. When the organization is not innovating its better to quit. Its basically IBM failed to innovate beyond the original PC and Thinkpad. If you look at it , IBM missed a piece of the hundreds of billions market for PC + Mobile devices. Their services + consulting business can fall anytime. Their products ( apart from the Data Analytic software) is a third rate. It will be interesting to see how the new CEO will run the behemoth.
  7. gbp
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    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    people keep blaming leo... but i blame ruby... he piloted the ship at palm... he still had the helm at hp... probably telling leo to trust him and that he could get it done until it fell apart like a bad ponzi scheme.
    Okay, where do we start ? from the last Treo phone ?
    Fact is Palm failed before they even got started. They were up against fierce Apple who wants to disrupt the market and Google who wants to own the market.

    Blaming Ruby is blaming the firefighter for failing to save the house rather than the arsonist that was Ed Colligan who set the fire.

    Folks go nowhere trying to find a single point of failure.
  8. #68  
    so is jon rubinstein ever gonna speak up? Doubt it until he leaves hp.

    but hope to hear more first hand accounts soon from others...
  9. cgk
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Mr.Palmisano was right a decade back. Not now. Its the dumbest thing to get rid of the PC business. The issue is with innovation. When the organization is not innovating its better to quit. Its basically IBM failed to innovate beyond the original PC and Thinkpad. If you look at it , IBM missed a piece of the hundreds of billions market for PC + Mobile devices. Their services + consulting business can fall anytime. Their products ( apart from the Data Analytic software) is a third rate. It will be interesting to see how the new CEO will run the behemoth.
    And where's the innovation in HP? better to quit, no?
  10. gbp
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    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    And where's the innovation in HP? better to quit, no?
    Look at the ENVY line of laptops, the Voodoo Pc (though acquired), the upcoming Folio and the the just teased spectre

    If they play good they can make good Win 8 and Android tablets. Money is money, back in 2002 , I bet IBM and Palmisano had "no idea" how the PC/Mobile landscape would change in few years. Basically IBM was lazy. How do I know ? I worked for them during the time precisely. They just wanted to make money from the consulting services. Charge hundreds of dollars per hour on consultants and pay them less than half. Easy money.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zukny View Post
    I just read this article myself as I first found it on Gizmodo.. The whole article is pretty depressing as it all but calls WebOS a Failed-Dead platform, but a comment by someone else that read it kinda gave me some good feelings:

    "WebOS is smooth compared to Android and has a Linux kernel. It is also more intuitive than Android. To declare WebOS dead because Web technology is not quite there yet presents a technological paradox that has potential to stifle innovation."
    This is exactly what I thought the moment I saw this article... possibly authored by Android-anarchists or the iOS-fanboies, to preempt any chance of webOS surviving as an open source platform, thereby posing any threat to their hegemony.
    Game over!
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  12. gbp
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    so is jon rubinstein ever gonna speak up? Doubt it until he leaves hp.

    but hope to hear more first hand accounts soon from others...
    It does not matter whether he speaks or not. I say the issues are beyond Jon. The fact that Palm was in soup well before Jon arrived was ignored conveniently by many of these reporters. May be they were in high school at that time. If not for the Elevation partner's money we could have not seen webOS.

    Jon surely gets credit for recruiting Mike Bell, Matias, Michael Abbott....... the list goes on. If anyone says its no big deal to put a team like that and ship a product in 9 months then he is an *****. Jon gets credit for all of that. Where he failed is in not pushing the team enough. This is where Steve Jobs comes in handy. They could have released more phones while marketing it heavily. Jon probably failed to get money from investors. May be they did not trust him enough after the initial fiasco.
  13. gbp
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    This is exactly what I thought the moment I saw this article... possibly authored by Android-anarchists or the iOS-fanboies, to preempt any chance of webOS surviving as an open source platform, thereby posing any threat to their hegemony.
    I was feeling the same. Its not a greatest platform, it was doomed to fail from the get go, it will go nowhere but to the grave.

    Why on earth NYT writes about a dead platform conveniently quoting from "Mr.Mercer and others who do not want to be identified" ?

    May be the Android/iOS fans wants to kill it for good. Given it is open source now, webOS can succeed given some time.
  14. #74  
    No we can start with ruby... We are only talking Webos here... Not anything before.

    Ruby led with Webos... He ran it to the ground.

    Yes he was brought in when palm was on its last breath anyways and against the wall... But that doesn't excuse bring out half baked product.

    You see food networked show chopped? Lol... You have 10 minutes left and you decide to cook a cake and know it takes 15 minutes, if your a chef you don't go ahead and make the cake, and present a half baked cake against strong apponents... Your going to get chopped

    Again, I know they were against the wall so I don't know what the better direction was... But that's why ruby was the captain, to make the right choices... Maybe if it meant being more honest and open of the issues they faced to get more time then to keep lying about everything like app store (geez they kept lying and pushing back and beta forever). I mean msft was honest in saying no phone until 2012... BB was saying no new os until 2012... Ruby could have maybe got away of being honest about a delay and have a good Webos out before those other guys and have others stuff in place like developers for apps.

    The funny thing is now that u see companies like Nokia and bb implode and windows phone behind in third...if they just stopped to take care of issues properly and just let people know and release later... They'd be in the game IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Okay, where do we start ? from the last Treo phone ?
    Fact is Palm failed before they even got started. They were up against fierce Apple who wants to disrupt the market and Google who wants to own the market.

    Blaming Ruby is blaming the firefighter for failing to save the house rather than the arsonist that was Ed Colligan who set the fire.

    Folks go nowhere trying to find a single point of failure.
  15. #75  
    To add... The events that happened at palm could have still gone the same way... But when HP bought palm and Webos and ruby was still tasked to run it, he could have had a better chance to push back launching the touchpad and pre3 (their true flagship phone and not the stupid little veer... Or push a SLAB PHONE!)... For the good of Webos. People here may have hated the wait but seeing Nokia and bb implode in the end it would have been a brilliant move.

    Maybe ruby knew that was the proper course but didn't have the balls to force it... Then it's still his fault and he shouldn't have been running the show... HP figured that part out too late.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    The physical phone was the worst of it from the beginning. Forget all the USB cracks on the plastic screen. Don't even look at the Oreo problems. The hardware specs were designed to nearly match a year-old phone, the iPhone 3.
    You are incorrect. The Pre had almost identical hardware to the 3GS. Both were ARM8 + PowerVR graphics clocked at 600Mhz with 256MB of RAM. There were rumbles that Apple was ticked that the Pre managed to release early enough to step on the iPhone's hardware brags.

    There are 2 reasons that WebOS was slower than iOS on that class of hardware:

    1) Scripted apps are always slower than compiling the same app, assuming your compiler is at least as smart as your script parser. That's why the newer WebOS APIs include the ability to develop "native" or "hybrid" apps.

    2) WebOS was true multitasking; the 3gs was not. A WebOS app can (and will) continue to function in the background, the iOS app was suspended. That's part of the reason why the Pre+ was a noticeable performance upgrade despite only being an increase in RAM.

    #2 is why I prefer WebOS over iOS or Windows Phone 7. #1 is why I sigh over my phone some times.
    ka1, Rnp, cobrakon and 1 others like this.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    May be the Android/iOS fans wants to kill it for good. Given it is open source now, webOS can succeed given some time.
    I'm going to wager that Android/iOS fans, along with Google and Apple, aren't worried about webOS. It is, however, a compelling story and people like to read about it apparently.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    Calculator is the only app that launches immediately on webOS. Everything else is slow. Everyone's definition of "slow" is different but the benchmark is the devices from the fruit company. What's the excuse for the 5 minute boot up time?
    my plain vanilla Veer boots in just over two minutes & my plain vanilla TP boots under two minutes
    had I done some tweaking using Homebrew I suspect this would be even faster
    I have much less problems with the core smartphone functions using my Veer in comparison to what I see from folks using Apple or Android products
    all three WebOs platforms offer innovative designs that were well thought out & realized, though as with almost all new systems in need of a bit of refinement
    this thread is full of inaccurate statements regarding this extraordinary mobile platform
    WebOs is the best mobile phone platform presently available, but sadly there has been a ruthless and unfair campaign to denigrate it
    such is the sad state of Big Business in which excellence can be buried by FUD
    Last edited by Artichoke; 01/03/2012 at 07:52 PM.
    Rnp likes this.
  19. #79  
    i think open sourcing it is going to uncover a lot of speed and performance issues that the open source community will help fix (we've already seen this in the equivalent of preware patches to speed up webOS).
    Artichoke likes this.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Artichoke View Post
    WebOs is the best mobile phone platform presently available, but sadly there has been a ruthless and unfair campaign to denigrate it
    such is the sad state of Big Business in which excellence can be buried by FUD
    I find it odd that people here seem to think there was some sort of organized campaign to ruin webOS, as if it was ever a threat to other mobile OS's. WebOS failed due to actions by those who were supposed to be helping it succeed, not because Google, iOS, or their users feared it. The only reason there are even articles being written about its failure now is because it failed, with people offering theories on why a promising OS sputtered in the marketplace.

    You can find limitless articles out there slamming iOS and Android, mostly the same type of FUD you say was spread about webOS, yet they are both successful beyond belief because people want to use them. webOS, as pretty and sometimes elegant as it was, could never capture the public's imagination, so it could never really succeed.
    SnotBoogie likes this.
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