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  1. cgk
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    #41  
    In regards to the context of this closure being against the backdrop of (the then plan) of getting rid of the PSG, interesting article about IBM:

    In 2004, I.B.M. sold its PC business to Lenovo of China. Mr. Palmisano says he deflected overtures from Dell and private equity firms, preferring the sale to a company in China for strategic reasons: the Chinese government wants its corporations to expand globally, and by aiding that national goal, I.B.M. enhanced its stature in the lucrative Chinese market, where the government still steers business.
    In total, the PC, disk drive and other hardware businesses that Mr. Palmisano sold off generated nearly $20 billion a year in sales, if not a lot of profits.

    The divestitures meant that I.B.M. was no longer the world’s largest information technology company. Hewlett-Packard took that title and took a different strategic path as well, doubling its bet on PCs by acquiring Compaq in 2001. “You see the choice that was made, and how the economics worked out,” Mr. Palmisano observes.

    Today, I.B.M.’s stock market value, at $217 billion, is more than four times that of the struggling H.P.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/bu...oxed.html?_r=2
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  2. #42  
    Excellent article. Good to hear voices from the 'inside' rather than finger pointing at big box retailers, salespeople at Sprint, CEOs, etc.
  3. #43  
    I read the entire article in the New York Times this morning.

    For me, the major flaw in the article is that they made virtually no mention of Leo Apotheker's part in webOS's demise. Instead, the article claims Apotheker supported webOS and promoted its use in HP products. But we now know that Apotheker never supported webOS but instead had his own agenda to turn HP from a hardware company into a software company. As a matter of fact, the article didn't even mention that Leo tried to dump the entire PC division.

    If Apotheker had truly supported webOS and webOS hardware, the products might well have succeeded. I place much of the blame on Leo's doorstep.
    Kyocera 6035 > Samsung SPH-i300 > i330 > i500 > Treo 600 > 700p > 755p > PRĒ Minus > Touchpad & FrankenPre2
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  4. #44  
    i think you need to read what cvr wrote on his blog too.
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  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoBears View Post
    I read the entire article in the New York Times this morning.

    For me, the major flaw in the article is that they made virtually no mention of Leo Apotheker's part in webOS's demise. Instead, the article claims Apotheker supported webOS and promoted its use in HP products. But we now know that Apotheker never supported webOS but instead had his own agenda to turn HP from a hardware company into a software company. As a matter of fact, the article didn't even mention that Leo tried to dump the entire PC division.

    If Apotheker had truly supported webOS and webOS hardware, the products might well have succeeded. I place much of the blame on Leo's doorstep.
    What would have made WebOS and hardware experience a turn around to acceptance?
  6. jp99's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdale View Post
    The article is a crock. If the Touchpad had been released with the performance of 3.0.4 plus the performance improving patches, it would have had no lagginess (snip)
    That's an odd assessment. I've recently moved from Pre's to iPhones, and I have a TP at 3.0.4 with many performance improving patches installed to help smooth it out (and overclock it for better speed).

    Neither my Pre's nor my TP can match the smoothness or lack of lag in our iPhone 4s or the iPad 2 we have. The difference is quite noticeable and the iOS world is clearly a level above webOS in this area.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    What would have made WebOS and hardware experience a turn around to acceptance?
    One would've been a world-wide launch.

    Palm pulled out of APJ. Who is going to develop for a platform that does not address teh fastest growing market in the world?
    Siobhán

    Palm III, Treo 600/650/680/750, Pre, Pre3, AT&T Pre3, tp 4G, tp 64GB.

    I am an HP Employee. I am not associated in anyway with the development of webOS or associated devices. Opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not in any way represent HP or Palm in any official manner. Any implications derived from my posts are the result of my own point of view and do not indicate any intention or evidence of past, present or future activity or plans of the aforementioned HP or Palm.
  8. #48  
    i'd say there needed to be a lot of things done to create a turnaround...

    but i can note a couple hardware notes...

    one thing they could have done was acknowledge the crappy build of the pre and make changes ASAP instead of turning a deaf ear... take care of the hardware you'd probably have more pres out in circulation to keep webos alive instead of thrown away because they've broken.

    another thing they could have done is have released a phone in slab form... you want to release a vertical slider (pre)... cool. but your follow up forms... pixi?!!!... veer?!!! ugh! why o why couldnt they have released a slab?!

    and when you are relaunching under the HP brand, instead of launching your flaghsip phone (pre)... it's the veer?!! ugh!

    people keep blaming leo... but i blame ruby... he piloted the ship at palm... he still had the helm at hp... probably telling leo to trust him and that he could get it done until it fell apart like a bad ponzi scheme.

    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    What would have made WebOS and hardware experience a turn around to acceptance?
    Last edited by donm527; 01/02/2012 at 05:25 PM.
  9. #49  
    Considering that the Pre and Pre Plus were "abandoned" in Feb 2011 and left with 1.4.5 software, there has not been an overwhelming owner loyalty base for WebOS.
  10. #50  
    Well, its mindshare, most people never heard of Palm (my peers at least - 9th grade)
    and using my pre 2, it does have unresponsiveness-problems at times. I understand why it failed somewhat.

    -Public perception
    -Management
    -Price
    -Build Quality
    -Overall speed (can be frustrating)
    -Public perception

    anyway, I applaud Apple for disguising slowness so well. I have an iPod touch, and the use of splash screens is commendable. iOS frustrates me with its UI "problems", and webOS frustrates me with its occasional freezing. webOS is sometimes slower, but its nice for me knowing it will always be open, and where I left off unlike iOS which automatically closes apps. (a plus AND a minus)

    I understand HP's move, since Pre's, Pixi's, TP's and Veer's never sold insanely well.
    m505 > Z|71 > T|C > T|T3 > LifeDrive > iPod touch 4 >
    Pre 2 > Treo Pro > Aria > Treo 650 > Lumia 920 > BB Z10 > BB Q10
    Lumia 830 > 635 > iPhone 5s > Galaxy Alpha > Lumia 640 >
    iPhone 5c > Nexus 5 > Nexus 5X > Blackberry Priv
    My Palm OS Archive
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  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by b3d0u1n View Post
    that the iPad was conceived before the iPhone. From the start there was a plan for a complete eco system, and that began with the iPod and iTunes years prior. There was a decade of thinking behind the iPad while the TouchPad was thrown out the door after an acquisition that the execs thought would magically push them the forefront.
    That is not true at all. Palm already had plans for a tablet (internally called PalmPad) long before HP stepped up. Not a decade, no, but the plans were already there before HP took over so please correct your statement.

    Btw, hackibility IS important. Else XDA wouldn't be so big and there wouldn't be so so many requests for jailbreaking iStuff.
  12. #52  
    The TouchPad can be sped up appreciably by turning off all of the various logging files. Instructions can be found in homebrew.

    The TouchPad problems began and ended in the boardroom and around the executive table.

    There is nothing wrong with the thing that price wouldn't fix.

    If Meg had arrived a bit earlier I know she likely would have given it a better try but by the time she was given the reins the funeral was already begun.

    I own an iPad and a TouchPad and they each have strong points and weak points. I have a work supplied Pre II and the Pre and the TouchPad make a strong working team.

    I just wish there was an excellent reader application like iPad's "GoodReader".
  13. laserboy's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by jp99 View Post
    That's an odd assessment. I've recently moved from Pre's to iPhones, and I have a TP at 3.0.4 with many performance improving patches installed to help smooth it out (and overclock it for better speed).

    Neither my Pre's nor my TP can match the smoothness or lack of lag in our iPhone 4s or the iPad 2 we have. The difference is quite noticeable and the iOS world is clearly a level above webOS in this area.
    really? I would choose my to over my ipad2 any day for functional and smoothness. My iphone 4 is fine but my son's Pixi is also good.
  14. cgk
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by stung View Post
    i think you need to read what cvr wrote on his blog too.
    It's interesting to me and maybe slightly telling that CVR uses a ipad and his app development is based around iOS with no plans to put out anything for WebOS.
  15. #55  
    Hmm... If this is correct....... What can we do ??

    "Insiders at the maker of expensive printer ink HP are starting to crawl out of the woodwork to explain why the TouchPad and WebOS went belly up during 2011.

    The TouchPad was tipped to be the iPad Killer but was the year's biggest flop and was killed after seven weeks in the shops.

    But according to the people who created the tablets core software, the whole thing was dead in the water long before the product was released.

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    WebOS was more flexible and open than Apple's tightly controlled iOS software, and prettier than Android. It had been bought from Palm as part of the $1.2 billion take over which Mark Hurd organised when he was not trying to recruit for his harem of women.

    But WebOS was not as well built as HP and Palm had hoped. While Palm was ahead of its time in trying to build a phone software platform using Web technology it couldn't actually pull it off.

    Paul Mercer, former senior director of software at Palm, who oversaw the interface design of WebOS told the New York Times that the technology was not available.

    Of course it being a report by the New York Times, which acts as Apple's unpaid press office, the quote is seen as proof that no one will ever beat Apple and everyone else smells of Nintendo, but actually it shows how much Palm was talking up its WebOS.

    The problem was that Palm hoped that when it created the WebOS for the Pre smartphone, developers would sign up in droves.

    After some internal debate, the company chose to have WebOS rely on WebKit, which was an open-source software engine used by browsers to display Web pages. But Mercer said this was a mistake because it made applications run like an asthmatic ant with a heavy load of shopping.

    Another member of the WebOS app development team said Palm could not get the enthusiasm and loyalty of outside programmers. There were neither the right leaders nor the right engineers to do the job, he said. Palm developed WebOS in nine months, and took some shortcuts.

    Some former employees blame Jon Rubinstein, who was Palm's chief executive, saying he failed to steer WebOS in the right direction. As a hardware expect he just did not understand how to build an OS and it was his daft idea to rely on WebKit. Rubinstein is still at HP.

    While the Pre had good reviews and initially sold well, it became clear the phone was too slow. There were also complaints about the phone spontaneously restarting itself or freezing up.

    Palm underestimated how many people it would need to make improvements, the former employee said.

    Palm was bought by HP which hoped to use WebOS to accelerate its smartphone and tablet efforts, but suddenly the Palm staff started to leave. Crucial was the exit of Matias Duarte, vice president of human interface and user experience for WebOS. He was Mr WebOS and when he left, "the vacuum was just palpable". We guess the dustpan and brush needed counselling too.

    With Hurd's exit and Léo Apotheker in to replace him, HP spent more on WebOS investments. Apotheker claimed WebOS would expand to more devices, including PCs and printers.

    The thought was that with HP money and expertise, it could make the WebOS go properly and in lots of different areas. There were layers of vice presidents, hundreds of engineers bought in to develop the TouchPad. But that miffed the developers of WebOS who did not like the way they came in and stuck HP's vision of putting WebOS on all hardware.

    Not only was the software not up to that, it could not really cope with phones and tablets either. Mercer thinks that WebKit left WebOS underpowered relative to Apple. WebKit was still not ready for prime time, because the Web cannot deliver what it needs yet. "

    Read more: http://news.techeye.net/hardware/pal...#ixzz1iO2TAIMB
    WebOS still makes sense.
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    Btw, hackibility IS important. Else XDA wouldn't be so big and there wouldn't be so so many requests for jailbreaking iStuff.
    XDA isn't big because of iStuff, it's big for the other operating systems. Heck, Windows Mobile has more threads than the IOS forum. XDA is 90% Android info, with a little bit of Windows, Blackberry, and a tiny IOS section. iStuff has their own website.
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    #57  
    Personally, I always thought the pricing was always where they killed themselves, they should have taken a hint when they saw how poorly other tablets priced the same as the iPad were selling. If they'd settle for a lower $400ish range, or maybe even selling near cost to get the new tech into people's hands, I think that would have made it a lot more successful, as the guts and specs were comparable to the iPad and ahead of most others at the time. But yeah...that and poor marketing (I can't recall a single TP ad from back then) just really hastened its demise, along with the fact they then dumped it all and wrote it off as a loss. Just another case of trying a get rich quick scheme and failing because they thought the HP name would carry them...
  18. cgk
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    #58  
    Another take on this story from an insider:

    With the early webOS releases, there were scrambles to fix issues on software and hardware, and then a classic second system syndrome kicked in. Many shortcuts were in place, so people wanted to go in and fix those problems and “build it right”.

    There were some real core architectural issues to be fixed here too (no sandboxing of apps so any bad code could mess up any other bad code, a lesson not learned from Pixo) and “fixing” these in a performant way is far from trivial! Needless to say, webOS 2.0 came waaaay too late and didn’t fix the core performance problems. In hindsight it would have been much better to have had a performance tzar who had people sitting with profilers open and fixing the darn problems.
    The rise and fall of webOS is an epic tale; webOS != Web OS on Dion Almaer's Blog
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  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    yeah just saw this come up on my zite app, good read
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    That's one of the right reads.
    Newness Developments apps:

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