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  1. #421  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    You negated my statement for webOS in your original post by down playing the statement from 10tons in regards to webOS app purchases. Since 10tons is the only multi-platform developer that I know of so far to come forward and make a statement about app purchases, I have nothing else to go on. So I posted the Android vs iOS story to cover the second part of my statement.

    As far as market share and revenue go, there seems to be a have your cake and eat it to attitude in these forums between Android and iOS fans. If we are talking about market share, iOS fans will state profits. If we are talking about profits, Android fans will state market share. The goal post seems to get moved in order to make one side look or feel better and us webOS fans get caught in the middle. It gets frustrating because we are clearly talking to folks from one side, then the other side butts in. Funny thing is that this is a webOS fan site and not an Android or iOS fan site. Some people here conveniently forget that.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
    Understood on your first point, though it's wierd you would link my question to another train of thought.

    On your second point, it's often one of the webos "faithful" who bring android/google, iOS/Apple into the convo, usually to dis one or the other or trying to make a point. I understand this is a webos forum, but there are many references to other platforms by staunch webos backers. People will tend to question or refute claims in these instances.
  2. #422  
    Quote Originally Posted by laserboy View Post
    true.

    but wall street has proven they are sheep and followers which is how we get to todays situations. So your statement about wall street is also flawed. Is there real value in apple or is there smoke and mirrors?
    Let's see...

    Apple: The Most Undervalued Large-Cap Stock In America - Seeking Alpha

    News Headlines

    Believe It or Not, Apple Stock Is Undervalued | InvestorPlace

    Real value?? Apple could buy HP with the $80+ billion in cash and short tern investments they have alone with many billions left in the bank not taking into consideration their stock.
    sinsin07 and SnotBoogie like this.
  3. #423  
    Quote Originally Posted by laserboy View Post
    true.

    but wall street has proven they are sheep and followers which is how we get to todays situations. So your statement about wall street is also flawed. Is there real value in apple or is there smoke and mirrors?
    Wall street may be full of crooks and idiots but they have not been wrong to like Apple. Wall street is not one person. It's a bunch of people making decisions based on information often speculative, unreliable and bad. But Apple has been a no brainer for several years and for the most part they haven't been wrong about apple because they've delivered the information that is most important. Consistent earnings.

    Apple trades at like only 15 times earnings. it earns something absurd like $27 per share. Its got like 6 times the market cap of a company as big as HP. It has had pretty consistent earnings for years. In a PC market during a recession where most pc makers have been having declining sales in PC and laptops, Apple has actually seen growth in their macbooks. So they've had growth where most others have been faltering. Not only that they have extremely high customer satisfaction which tends to mean repeat customers. So investors can reasonably speculate that they will continue to have a lot of good will with customers. It is a market leader in growth industries of mobile phone and tablets so investors can make an educated guess that in the near future they'll continue to make profits. Also a profitable music, movie, and ebook platform. Add to that in a month or two they are likely to announce an iPad 3 which i'm sure will do quite well since plenty of people skipped the ipad 2 or simply don't have an ipad but want to buy a first one. And in 9 months we'll likely see an iphone 5, possibly with a 4 inch screen and LTE which i see no reason why it wouldn't be popular. And there's still the possibility that they'll release a tv with appletv, airplay, icloud access, and apps, all inside. If you're projecting about the near future of apple you have to take an educated guess and thinK that for the next few quarters they'll continue to be profitable. Oh yeah and $80 billion dollars in cash just sitting around earning interest. $80 billion in cash means they have the flexibility to withstand flops, to buy companies that can add either new products or add features like they've done with itunes and Siri. Apple recently bought a flash memory maker Anobit for $300 and something mill to secure a key component and expensive component in their devices flash memory. Smart. No relying on Samsung. $400? Yeah it's not a horrible price for that stock.

    Smoke and Mirrors? No, they have real earnings, consistent earnings, dominant market share, in growth industries, satisfied, repeat customers, sound management, and they have a boat load of cash. Not smoke and mirrors. The are just a well run company.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 01/15/2012 at 04:29 AM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  4. #424  
    Once again this discussion has veered away from the original topic.

    This is a webOS forum. If you would like to discuss other platforms/devices, please visit our Mobile Nation sister sites. If you would like to discuss the stock market, please find a forum on the stock market.

    Thanks for cooperating.
  5. #425  
    Probably ruby.

    Again letting him run the show from palm to HP, he could keep some skeletons in the closet while he try to get a product out ASAP. He sold hp a car and didnt tell him the engine didnt run on all cylinders... And the brakes were missing. People close to him had to know and hoping for a miracle. By the time HP realized the mess... Too late.

    I mean if u think ruby wasn't an *****, then you would imagine that he'd want to release his top phone first... And that his top phone would be pre... Not veer. Right?

    So why in gods name do you get a second chance and the first phone you release is the veer?!!!

    Because like in an episode of food channel CHOPPED, you barely made it past the first round but you think your a smart cook, cooking a wonderful piece of meat for your main entree... Then realize you have 10 seconds to finish/plate, the meat is half cooked and inedible and likely to make people sick if consumed as-is, so you hail Mary the small potatoes on the plate and claim that was your main dish... And he gets chopped.


    Quote Originally Posted by Merjout View Post
    I often wondered if no one at Palm/HP knew that webOS was bound for failure. It was really obvious after a whole year and the OS still ran so slow, barebone slow apps and barely any support from big name companies. I think it being so slow and the lack of tools is what kept developers away. It was obvious that webkit was a bad choice. Poor decisions and rush to market killed webOS and the touchpad just didn't have a chance.
  6. #426  
    WebOS and lack of support wasn't a secret when the Touchpad was launched. Anyone who didn't realize the lack of depth in WebOS at HP at release was blind.
  7. #427  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merjout View Post
    I often wondered if no one at Palm/HP knew that webOS was bound for failure. It was really obvious after a whole year and the OS still ran so slow, barebone slow apps and barely any support from big name companies. I think it being so slow and the lack of tools is what kept developers away. It was obvious that webkit was a bad choice. Poor decisions and rush to market killed webOS and the touchpad just didn't have a chance.
    I suspected it was in trouble quite quickly, after about three months. That was when there were a lot of reports that sell through had fell off a cliff. Sort of hinted that sales had plateaued. The second big moment for me was just the general slow drip drip of new apps. It just seemed that by December the apps that interested me weren't coming. Oh and one thing that really stood out to me was that one of the software updates didn't fix a bunch of stuff that bothered me, specifically the music player. But with iphones, ipods, and android phones i thought media consumption was a big thing for consumers so it struck me that the music player was not that polished, that video recorded sort of seems a second thought. though at least it came. But in my head it signaled the direction they were going wasn't exactly where i'd have gone. I think that kinda showed later. For example touch to share is interesting but i'd rarely use it and voice commands would have been a higher priority for me. Obviously, that's my priority not everyones but i thought it was telling.

    A very big moment in my mind was the announcement of the Pre 2. Mostly because it looked the same as the Pre which in my opinion wasn't a hugely popular form factor outside of the pre/treo/blackberry people. And sadly blackberry was kinda declining. I think the last really big thing was when i think it was webos 2.0 was announced and i still heard them screaming about synergy and multitasking. I struck me as not bringing enough new stuff to the table. Kinda like if Apple's next IOS press conference kept highlighting that they had a new notification system. But over time these combined to make me think the platform was in quite a bit of trouble.

    The Pre 3 and veer and touchpad announcement only made me feel my diagnosis a year earlier were kinda spot on.

    There is a concept called the diagnosis bias where by people decide something initially and then have difficulty changing their minds when presented with a lot of contrary evidence. But i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the higher ups got it in their head that either what they were doing was enough go win customers or that the whole "we're the best OS" thing. Like if you think you're already the best it may be hard to take seriously any criticism. Like they've diagnosed that the product was fine and that may have kept them from making needed changes. I've been in few companies touting inadequate services but the big wigs insisted that their product needed no changes. They only admitted they were wrong after loosing a 40 million dollar account and having to lay off 75% of the staff. Regardless my two cents. who knows for sure.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 01/20/2012 at 04:18 PM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  8. kalel33's Avatar
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    #428  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    There is a concept called the diagnosis bias where by people decide something initially and then have difficulty changing their minds when presented with a lot of contrary evidence.
    Pet peeve of mine but the diagnosis bias should be replaced with "cognitive dissonance".
  9. #429  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    I heard about the Facebook thing, do you have links on the others? But I suspect that sort of 'Inside Baseball' stuff goes on throughout the industry. As long as the anti-trust or monopoly line isn't crossed, it is all legal even if it is somewhat sleazy.

    Like everything else, it's all about the money. If a phone maker can't show partners how they will profit by sticking with them, they can never get traction.

    C
    the others that I referred to would be my opinion based on reading the book on Jobs. He was ruthless at getting what he wanted, both inside Apple and with other companies.
  10. #430  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    snip...So why in gods name do you get a second chance and the first phone you release is the veer?!!! ....
    Not enough HP employees turned in their plastics for recycling.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 01/21/2012 at 05:28 AM.
  11. #431  
    It was going to flop because of the build quality.........WOW.
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