Page 14 of 22 FirstFirst ... 4910111213141516171819 ... LastLast
Results 261 to 280 of 431
Like Tree137Likes
  1. #261  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    You do understand that the Touchpad's sales were declining every week?

    You do understand that the largest retail chain was returning all of their stock?

    HP was going to lose a ton of money either way. There was no indicator that the Touchpad was ever going to pick up in sales or that the limited number in the hands of consumers were enough to start a word of mouth surge when just the opposite had happened with WebOS on phones.

    The $99 blowout was an odd move, but the good news is that people have Touchpads who would never have bought them otherwise. It was a gift to bargain hunters, a slap in the face to full pricers.
    I understand all of that enough to have commented about it in threads specifically on those subjects.

    The $99 blowout, while odd and unexpected, created a following for the tablet in the market. As a full pricer, I was pretty upset by it and let my frustrations be known in the threads until HP/Best Buy gave me an instant rebate down to the fire sale price. I used the money from that to buy another one (for my wife) even after I said I would never buy another HP product again. I still don't have that much love for them as a company but I'm glad with some of the decisions they have made since the fiasco.
  2. #262  
    There is an old saying...."...hindsight is 20-20." It is easy to say "I predicted the failure, therefore I was right!"

    If the Touchpad were successful you would have people saying "I predicted it would be a resounding success, therefore I was right!"

    You see this is in all sorts of reporting on the news, for some reason, everyone seems to always be 'right' after the fact.
    regards,

    Dan

    ------------------
    TabletPC user
    C-Note likes this.
  3. #263  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    k4ever, you seem to think that the preponderance of user opinion or word of mouth would be more favorable than what is reflected in tech reviews, sales figures or market shares. While I understand that this is a hope that people around here cling to, when the evidence is to the contrary.

    People who have sold webOS devices at the retail level have consistently reported high return rates. Even the Palm/HP insiders who were interviewed for the NY Times article mentioned high return rates. I don't think a normal person would return a smartphone or even doctor their phone more than once or twice and still consider it a good phone.

    Discussions on this forum are pointed to as evidence of an enthusiastic user base. The reality is that a large amount of criticism on the forums is suppressed by deleting negative posts, combining them into one unreadable thread, or simply banning the user. Just look at the unmoderated comments about Derek's front-page editorial. They are about 50/50 positive/negative and this is a webOS fan site.

    Even our debate on this thread is limited to about a half-dozen participants. We are the only ones that care about whether the TP was destined to be a flop? It sounds like many many people have simply moved on.

    Please, someone tell me, again, about how they demonstrated their webOS device and the other person was "blown away" at how awesome it was. Me? It's been months since I even saw someone using webOS.
    No, I said that user opinion matters. High returns rates are a sign of user opinion. Comments about the device from consumers who own the device, whether negative or positive, are a sign of user opinion. The problem we have had in these forums have stemmed from people who have never owned a TouchPad commenting about the user experience. You can't have user experience unless you actually use the device.
  4. #264  
    Obviously, you haven't read the thread. I have said no such thing.

    My best guess is that you are full of baloney.

    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    You try to belittle others and set yourself up as superior by saying that you are a teacher and we are students, yet you don't even do research to back up your claims. I could have taken that to another level but I decided to have some fun with it.

    BTW, I worked in the military as an instructor and still train Soldiers of and on today. The first thing I learned is to research a subject before I train others on it. Even if I worked in that field for years and performed those duties in combat, I still hit the books to make sure I am up to date before I get in front students.

    If you are truly a teacher in this field, you may need to re-educate yourself. It took me 30 minutes using Google and researching professional organizations in your field to find those definitions. I even posted the links to them for you. You have yet to support your claims and seem intent on disagreeing with anyone who likes webOS. I'm not mad at you but you need to back your stuff up with facts or move on. Facts help the conversation.
  5. #265  
    Let's keep it polite guys, opinions about strategy are OK, opinions about people in tech world are OK, opinions about fellow forum members personal integrity are not.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  6. #266  
    Quote Originally Posted by dceggert View Post
    There is an old saying...."...hindsight is 20-20." It is easy to say "I predicted the failure, therefore I was right!"

    If the Touchpad were successful you would have people saying "I predicted it would be a resounding success, therefore I was right!"

    You see this is in all sorts of reporting on the news, for some reason, everyone seems to always be 'right' after the fact.
    Thanks Dan, your comment was on point. I hate bandwagoners. Problem is you see a lot of bandwagoners in the tech industry and the sports industry.

    When the iPhone was first produced a lot of tech bloggers and journalist predicted it would flop. It was missing a lot of features and Blackberry was king. The people in lines around the store were brushed aside as Mac sheep (to an extent most of them were). The initial sales drop (you can't top a million a day everyday) were used as an indicator that the product had lost some appeal. They then turned from distracters to supporters as the product gained more market share. Now everyone is on the bandwagon. At least Apple didn't throw in the towel after two months like HP.

    The iPhone and iPad has never been for me and I have let that be known. That hasn't changed no matter how successful they have been. The TouchPad meets my needs so I am content. I'm also a Oakland Raiders fan so I am a glutton for punishment.
  7. #267  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    ..... you are full of baloney.
    And this is why threads are cleansed on PreCentral, not facts for or against a product or idea. This is also an example of taking it personal. Everything I have said about myself and the links I have posted on the subject (marketing vs advertising) are true. I have yet to get the same from you on the subject and now you stoop to a personal attack instead of producing facts about the subject (marketing vs advertising).
  8. #268  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    There was no indicator that the Touchpad was ever going to pick up in sales or that the limited number in the hands of consumers were enough to start a word of mouth surge when just the opposite had happened with WebOS on phones.
    Yeah I never quite understood the thinking that "if only it had gotten more time ..." Obviously there were indications within HP that they'd released a product that was not going to gain traction in a market where one player was dominant, and the other major player could only move a couple million units among several devices. They could've kept it out there longer, but there was nothing, not media hype or word of mouth praise, that indicated the possibility of long-term success. It would've been easier for HP to have just left it out there as sales trickled to a halt I suppose. But when they would have inevitably decided to cancel the webOS line, there would've been more outrage than there already is from buyers. So instead, liquidate at a loss, letting those new owners know that they are buying into a discontinued platform, and minimize the headache.

    Pointing to the rare success of a product that started out slow and took years to achieve dominance is reaching, since that's lightning in a bottle type stuff. The odds are overwhelmingly against that happening, and HP knew it.
  9. #269  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post

    Discussions on this forum are pointed to as evidence of an enthusiastic user base. The reality is that a large amount of criticism on the forums is suppressed by deleting negative posts, combining them into one unreadable thread, or simply banning the user. Just look at the unmoderated comments about Derek's front-page editorial. They are about 50/50 positive/negative and this is a webOS fan site.

    Even our debate on this thread is limited to about a half-dozen participants. We are the only ones that care about whether the TP was destined to be a flop? It sounds like many many people have simply moved on.

    Don't disagree with most of your comments. I don't typically dismiss as nonsense opinions based on facts though I may have a different conclusion. But this one is not completely fair. At an enthusiast site for any technology, one should expect to see fans. When I check Apple or Droid sites, I don't find it disturbing that most are proponent of the technology. As this is a webOS site, isn't it reasonable to have fans here.

    Since none of us can influence the past, this discussion started as an intellectual exercise on if or not anything would have change the trajectory of the Touchpad. It migrated into a webOS in general and a MP3 player discussion as well. Then it got a 'little' ugly but righted itself (mostly).

    Read the comments on this thread. Some are scathingly negative and they have NOT been banned. I have another post with collection of the supposedly forbidden negative comments about Palm, HP, or webOS. None of them were banned.

    Am I wrong?

    C
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
    k4ever likes this.
  10. #270  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    Yeah I never quite understood the thinking that "if only it had gotten more time ..." Obviously there were indications within HP that they'd released a product that was not going to gain traction in a market where one player was dominant, and the other major player could only move a couple million units among several devices.

    Pointing to the rare success of a product that started out slow and took years to achieve dominance is reaching, since that's lightning in a bottle type stuff. The odds are overwhelmingly against that happening, and HP knew it.
    True comments, but 60 days (it it was even that) was no time at all. Additionally, if HP (or anyone else) is not willing to adjust to the market place, then you are correct.

    But one would have to assume that an "on the ball" company would have made the adjustments in price or quality to move forward. It's' obvious that HP was not.

    Funny, when the sale to HP was announced, lots of detractors derided them as "printer ink" sales people. Suddenly after dumping webOS, they are brilliant business executives.

    However the opinions of most analysts (and their trajectory on the stock market) run completely opposite. I have yet to see more than one or two out of dozens of tech review not list them as one of most "befuddled" tech companies of the year. (And I'm being polite about it)

    C
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  11. #271  
    I don't think they are brilliant at all. I think it didn't make much sense in the first place to make a tablet based on an unknown, fledgling OS, when the fastest-rising mobile OS could barely move units. It likely was put out there because they felt they had to do something with webOS, not because they thought it had a chance in hell of succeeding.

    So I guess my point is that yes, they pulled the TP prematurely, but it was only a matter of time -- either fail now, or fail later, which is better?
  12. #272  
    Please don't stoop to the "timmy hit me for no reason" stance. It goes against all of the little personal digs you place in your posts.

    If someone wants to clean up the thread - so be it. The thread is about an article that the Touchpad was bound to be a flop.

    It is not about users.

    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    And this is why threads are cleansed on PreCentral, not facts for or against a product or idea. This is also an example of taking it personal. Everything I have said about myself and the links I have posted on the subject (marketing vs advertising) are true. I have yet to get the same from you on the subject and now you stoop to a personal attack instead of producing facts about the subject (marketing vs advertising).
  13. #273  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    When the iPhone was first produced a lot of tech bloggers and journalist predicted it would flop. It was missing a lot of features and Blackberry was king. The people in lines around the store were brushed aside as Mac sheep (to an extent most of them were). The initial sales drop (you can't top a million a day everyday) were used as an indicator that the product had lost some appeal. They then turned from distracters to supporters as the product gained more market share. Now everyone is on the bandwagon. At least Apple didn't throw in the towel after two months like HP.
    ...exactly, what they did was drop the price by 1/3. I remember it vividly because I got into a failure argument with someone over it. Here is how it went...

    Him: You think that the iPhone was a complete failure?
    Me: No I didn't say that, what I said was that it FAILED to meet sales expectations as evidenced by the fact that they lowered the price point by 1/3 after just 2 months.
    Him: How could you say that it was a total failure when it is the most fastest selling phone of all time?
    Me: Well, it s obvious that it didn't sell as much as they thought it would. They lowered the price by 1/3 because they obviously priced it wrong. They FAILED to reach their sales goals at that price point.
    Him: How can you say the iPhone is a complete failure?
    Me: You are kind of an ***** aren't you?
  14. #274  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Please don't stoop to the "timmy hit me for no reason" stance. It goes against all of the little personal digs you place in your posts.

    If someone wants to clean up the thread - so be it. The thread is about an article that the Touchpad was bound to be a flop.

    It is not about users.
    The rules are the rules. Learn to follow them. I have had posted cleaned on this forum for going after guys just like you who are long on insults and short on facts. You have yet to provide an facts to support you position (about marketing vs advertising). Provide those and we can continue the discussion.

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
  15. #275  
    The dropped pthe rice of the 8G from $599 to $399 and discontinued the 4 gig model. This was after close to 1 million iPhones had been sold.

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    ...exactly, what they did was drop the price by 1/3. I remember it vividly because I got into a failure argument with someone over it. Here is how it went...

    Him: You think that the iPhone was a complete failure?
    Me: No I didn't say that, what I said was that it FAILED to meet sales expectations as evidenced by the fact that they lowered the price point by 1/3 after just 2 months.
    Him: How could you say that it was a total failure when it is the most fastest selling phone of all time?
    Me: Well, it s obvious that it didn't sell as much as they thought it would. They lowered the price by 1/3 because they obviously priced it wrong. They FAILED to reach their sales goals at that price point.
    Him: How can you say the iPhone is a complete failure?
    Me: You are kind of an ***** aren't you?
  16. #276  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    I don't think they are brilliant at all. I think it didn't make much sense in the first place to make a tablet based on an unknown, fledgling OS, when the fastest-rising mobile OS could barely move units. It likely was put out there because they felt they had to do something with webOS, not because they thought it had a chance in hell of succeeding.

    So I guess my point is that yes, they pulled the TP prematurely, but it was only a matter of time -- either fail now, or fail later, which is better?
    Fail later. At least you can say you gave it your best. No one will fault you for it but when you give up early everyone calls you a quitter. That is as bad a label to have as a business as it is to have as an individual.

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by k4ever; 01/05/2012 at 02:01 PM.
    C-Note and Artichoke like this.
  17. #277  
    Please knock it off. I have 100% supported my position, you just don't want to admit it. That's fine and in the true spirit of disagreement.

    If you are trying to pull a power play that you can get the thread cleaned of me, just do it. This is childish and never ending.

    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    The rules are the rules. Learn to follow them. I have had posted cleaned on this forum for going after guys just like you who are long on insults and short on facts. You have yet to provide an facts to support you position (about marketing vs advertising). Provide those and we can continue the discussion.

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
  18. #278  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    The dropped pthe rice of the 8G from $599 to $399 and discontinued the 4 gig model. This was after close to 1 million iPhones had been sold.
    They still failed to meet their expected sales, which is what prompted Steve Jobs to write this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Jobs
    To all iPhone customers:
    I have received hundreds of emails from iPhone customers who are upset about Apple dropping the price of iPhone by $200 two months after it went on sale. After reading every one of these emails, I have some observations and conclusions.

    First, I am sure that we are making the correct decision to lower the price of the 8GB iPhone from $599 to $399, and that now is the right time to do it. iPhone is a breakthrough product, and we have the chance to 'go for it' this holiday season. iPhone is so far ahead of the competition, and now it will be affordable by even more customers. It benefits both Apple and every iPhone user to get as many new customers as possible in the iPhone 'tent'. We strongly believe the $399 price will help us do just that this holiday season.

    Second, being in technology for 30+ years I can attest to the fact that the technology road is bumpy. There is always change and improvement, and there is always someone who bought a product before a particular cutoff date and misses the new price or the new operating system or the new whatever. This is life in the technology lane. If you always wait for the next price cut or to buy the new improved model, you'll never buy any technology product because there is always something better and less expensive on the horizon. The good news is that if you buy products from companies that support them well, like Apple tries to do, you will receive years of useful and satisfying service from them even as newer models are introduced.

    Third, even though we are making the right decision to lower the price of iPhone, and even though the technology road is bumpy, we need to do a better job taking care of our early iPhone customers as we aggressively go after new ones with a lower price. Our early customers trusted us, and we must live up to that trust with our actions in moments like these.

    Therefore, we have decided to offer every iPhone customer who purchased an iPhone from either Apple or AT&T, and who is not receiving a rebate or any other consideration, a $100 store credit towards the purchase of any product at an Apple Retail Store or the Apple Online Store. Details are still being worked out and will be posted on Apple's website next week. Stay tuned.

    We want to do the right thing for our valued iPhone customers. We apologize for disappointing some of you, and we are doing our best to live up to your high expectations of Apple.

    Steve Jobs
    Apple CEO
    .
    gbp likes this.
  19. #279  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Please knock it off. I have 100% supported my position, you just don't want to admit it. That's fine and in the true spirit of disagreement.

    If you are trying to pull a power play that you can get the thread cleaned of me, just do it. This is childish and never ending.
    That is as easy as pushing the report button but what would that accomplish? You have not yet posted your source for the definition and that would let you get off Scott free.

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
  20. #280  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    They still failed to meet their expected sales, which is what prompted Steve Jobs to write this:
    Interestingly enough, I didn't say they met their expectations. I was adding info about discontinuing the 4 gig model and the approximate sales levels.

Posting Permissions