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  1. #21  
    Are you at work right now Don't answer that. Some bugs are easy to detect if you do more that just open things and close them. It would be easy to tell if they believe by the comments and products they themselves carry around. How many pre +/-,pixi's, veers, pre 3's do you see being personally used. How many Android/Apple products do you see. What do people say they actually use. No poll needed. Just like people get happy they see a touchpad in the wild, what do you see in the breakroom? That says a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    Well I can tell you that I'm not going to go around HP and do a poll so I can't tell you what the guys and gals from the inside believe in webOS, but if you want my opinion then it is software that is going to mold the future of the tablet market. Whether it is the software that tablets in 2015 will be running on I don't know or wish to speculate, but I can say with every ounce of belief that it will be a source of significant impact on the OS that will be running on those tablets.

    Now to address your questions.

    So what is the roadmap?
    HP like Palm has historically not announced product roadmaps, while it's understood that as customers this is wanted. It's not something that is often feasible. You can keep an eye out on the official HP newsroom for any announcements we are prepared to make
    [url= News, Technology News, Videos, Podcasts | HP Newsroom[/url]

    Where is the software on current devices going from here?
    The software as a whole is going Open Source. This will include current devices and any future devices. As to what impact HP will play in that role, it has not been stated and at this time HP is not prepared to make any further announcements that what has already been stated.

    How do the updates get tested and why do they come with more bugs like the sound bug and the removal of delete trash from email?
    Every update is tested internally by our engineering group and by members of HP, this test is often pushed out to a "friends and family" approach when possible, but not always. As for the software coming with bugs, this happens because nothing is perfect.

    Do you see the phones and tablets as completed devices or lacking?
    Every tablet on the market today is lacking something.
  2. #22  
    Thank you for answering. I know it is hard seeing a lot of complaining on here. Many do just care about WebOS, maybe we should have jumped on the tablet sooner, but seems there was more to that decision than just it not selling well since it's Pre 3 companion was not released with it, but later. We just want to not feel embarrassed by our product choices in public and be productive with them like everyone else (whatever productive is to them). I guess also not have to switch to one of the systems we feel are inferior to WebOS phone or tablet.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    HP may have 500+ employees who are in someway affiliated with webOS, but that doesn't mean there are 500+ software developers working on webOS.

    There are Services employees who maintain and manage the cloud, there is software developers, content developmental teams, support operations staff, etc.

    I would like to ensure you that the HP webOS team is doing everything we can to ensure the software is successful, we are diligently on addressing as many issues as we can. Now, although people would love to see an update every month so we can fix a bug here and there it is just not feasible. We can not in any fashion go an update per bug route, we have to roadmap it out and try to get as many bug fixes as we can into each update while also maintaining a reasonable work schedule and product sanctification as possible.

    So let's say we are due for alpha testing of an update. Alpha testing will launch our software engineering group will get the feedback and address the bugs that are found, and put out the second stage of the update, then we go through it again and oh wait..something else broke so now we have to go back and fix that again. What once looked like an easy task of just doing a quick test and pushing out an update turns into an update that goes through alpha / beta testing for a month.

    So while you may be upset that there is 500+ people who work for HP that you are not satisfied with their production. I assure you we are all very productive, it just doesn't always show to the common outside eye.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by laserboy View Post
    I see it bandied about that HP has 500+ webOS employees.

    Here's my question: if there are all these employees, what are they doing? I mean the update and app production rate of HP is less than a single person software developer.

    with this number of employees, I feel I should have seen an update to the facebook app, a netflix port, updating kindle (I know that is Amazon's, but HP could take it over).

    the is should be seeing multiple updates.

    so why are there so many employees and we see little output?

    500 employees does not mean they all are programmers. They could have legal, legal secretaries, project managers, i think it's a separate building so janitors and support staff, sales people, tech support, those people that where merely liaisons for developers, and I'm sure some people are focused on ways other then old software to make webos work some other way for HP. Like they've been screaming about printers from day one. And even if they were to fix something that's wrong they need people testing stuff too. They can't release stuff w/o tons of testing. The other thing is they very well could have people at "webos" doing non-webos work. I've worked in several companies that for a part of the year had no business, or minimal business, they didn't want to fire me so they moved me to doing other work. I remained in the same business unit too. HP may have webos people doing non webos stuff. Also since it's going open source maybe they are focus on readying the software for opensource by removing code they can't have in an open source project. Honestly they've decided not to continue making webos hardware, no more phones so it's not inconceivable that continuing to throw money at touchpad stuff is not that high on their priority list compared to the open source or other hp stuff. Generally speaking HP has tons of other profitable products, they recently announced like 10 new laptops, i'm sure they have new printers new servers, blah blah blah. All of which sell profitably every years so big picture i'm sure those are probably the things in the front of HP's minds.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 12/20/2011 at 01:54 PM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  4. laserboy's Avatar
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       #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Awats View Post
    I understand HeartBeatZ's point but I would hope he/she realises that the bugs in 3.0.4 should not have been left out in the field this long. They aren't insignificant. At the same time, if they learned their lesson after releasing 3.0.4 and are better scrutinizing the next release, that is a dang good reason to wait, but they need to say so. It's been bad enough for long enough to just leave it hanging out there.

    If there are significant updates and features coming, that's even better, but as long as there are no updates on the progress it will continue to look ... Bad. So far, all we can hear are the crickets.
    I have to agree, the problems should have been fixed asap rather than waiting and waiting and waiting .... Still waiting.

    moving on, I really don't mind the lack of apps. I mean the apple and android apps are just full of mostly crap. I think that if core apps are present, then people would be satisfied. So even if HP does not write the netflix app (I think they could work something out), they certainly could try to strongly encourage the production of such an app.

    while HP does not create the apps like Quickoffice, perhaps they need to. They need to create the user experience.

    and sometimes it is really important to show your customers that you do care about their experience and you are trying to fix problems. Silence is an enemy.
    trowany and MikeM2010 like this.
  5. #25  
    Just would like to hear some advance that top ten bugs in 3.04 for the TouchPad are receiving attention. I purchased the TouchPad expecting some basic functions to work and not seeing it. So much of HP WebOS dev time appears to be going into supporting the Pre and WebOS 2.x, with TouchPad customers not receiving support as to very basic core functionality.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodyTrain View Post
    ... very basic core functionality.
    Give some examples?
  7. #27  
    I think we can primarily hope that with the open sourcing, there will be a faster time scale for general system updates, as well as I'm sure that the webOS Internals people will be able to provide a system that will provide updates to various things in a much more timely fashion.

    It will take some time to get this all together, and I'm reasonably certain that there is a whole lot of work getting done, but will it make people happy no matter how fast it comes out? Probably not. It will only make people happy if it solves their specific problem, without generating new ones for them.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodyTrain View Post
    Just would like to hear some advance that top ten bugs in 3.04 for the TouchPad are receiving attention. I purchased the TouchPad expecting some basic functions to work and not seeing it. So much of HP WebOS dev time appears to be going into supporting the Pre and WebOS 2.x, with TouchPad customers not receiving support as to very basic core functionality.
    ?? TouchPad owners got update to 3.02, 3.04 and now 3.05 is around the corner.

    Pre2 finally got updated to 2.2.4 yesterday and the Sprint users who historically have made up most of the base have not seen a working update from Palm for over a year and a half.

    Things are moving at Palm. I expect to continue to see some nice changes.

    Happy Holidays.

    ps: the return of major presence of Hardbeatz on the boards...is a nice holiday present.
  9. #29  
    Um it's better than no updates at all... I mean think of it this way, it means they are doing something, and it also means they are probably neck deep in figuring out the open source path.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by p41m3r View Post
    Actually, we insist. For the love of humanity, PLEASE hold your breath.
    While I understand this is a pro webOS forum it seems anyone who speaks out against webOS and the TP is subject to ridicule. I've owner a TP and honestly it's not a great product. I guess the truth hurts. I would challenge anyone on this forum to try an iPad for a week and then tell me they would still want their TP. Now I know you'll say that the TP is much cheaper, but let's just keep price out of it. If anyone wants to do this go to an Apple store or Target and buy one. Apple has a 14 return policy, and I believe Target has a 30 return policy on iPads, it 90 days on everything else they sell ( that's why their my favorite store). And please would everyone stop the personal attacks, as I've owned a TP and I really wanted to like it but after a month with it I came to realize it wasn't for me. If you're happy with it then great, but if anyone takes my challenge please let me know how it works out. Oh buy the way Target and the Apple store don't charge a restocking fee but Best Buy does.

    Thanks for letting me vent.
  11. #31  
    I should have my developer's iPad 2 in a couple of weeks. Other than it giving me a perspective on ways to improve my own tablet apps, I don't think I'll be terribly impressed. I have an iPod Touch now, and I kind of hate it, ever since obtaining a TouchPad and a Pre.

    Hopefully I'll be able to port what I'm working on to TouchPad
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  12. dan-o's Avatar
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    #32  
    To HardBeatZ -

    Just want to say thanks for the hard work and for coming to a forum like this to let us know what y'all are up to.

    As I suppose that's the main issue here: communication. Webos users constantly feel like they are being hung out to dry. Perhaps you could run it up the flagpole over there that the communication with your userbase is somewhat lacking. If a timeline is not feasable, then perhaps at least letting us know what bugs and enhancements you are working on would go a long way towards easing some of the tension.

    Anyway thanks again... We appreciate that there is still a staff over there dedicated to putting a good product out for us.

    Peace
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by dan-o View Post
    To HardBeatZ -

    Just want to say thanks for the hard work and for coming to a forum like this to let us know what y'all are up to.

    As I suppose that's the main issue here: communication. Webos users constantly feel like they are being hung out to dry. Perhaps you could run it up the flagpole over there that the communication with your userbase is somewhat lacking. If a timeline is not feasable, then perhaps at least letting us know what bugs and enhancements you are working on would go a long way towards easing some of the tension.

    Anyway thanks again... We appreciate that there is still a staff over there dedicated to putting a good product out for us.

    Peace
    I already do and say more than I probably should at times. Everything that is ever published publicly for for end users and customers has to go through HP's public relations and legal group because at the end of the day as a company HP has to protect HP to protect the shareholders. I've explored the idea of giving out more information than what is available and it has never been something that people more in the know are fond of doing. At the end of the day there is far to many legal ramifications and to much competition to post anything like that. The public relations group works hard to provide as much information as possible, even if as a customer we may not feel that way.

    I hate to use analogies, but you can't ask Microsoft to tell you what bugs in Windows 7 they plan on patching with the next Service Pack. You can't ask Bioware what fixes are going to be in the first SW:TOR patch. Fact of the matter is road maps, future features, bug fixes just simply can not be shared until they are ready to go live.

    HP always shares as much information as we can when it comes to the current business state and the future business state as possible and all the information can be found on the website (I linked the link earlier).
    Ex HP webOS Tech Support

    5Ts: Five ways to get your webOS tablet working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/5Ts

    6Ts: Six ways to get your webOS phone working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/6Ts
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    ?? TouchPad owners got update to 3.02, 3.04 and now 3.05 is around the corner.

    Pre2 finally got updated to 2.2.4 yesterday and the Sprint users who historically have made up most of the base have not seen a working update from Palm for over a year and a half.

    Things are moving at Palm. I expect to continue to see some nice changes.

    Happy Holidays.

    ps: the return of major presence of Hardbeatz on the boards...is a nice holiday present.
    First off, I am glad to see Hardbeatz back. Regarding the updates. Personally as far as the updates to the phones are concerned, each subsequent update, has only made the phone less usable. The most important app in a phone, even if it is smartphone, is the phone dialer app and the fact is, that the Phone dialer app has not worked properly since webOS 2.1.x In fact in 2.2.x it has become an embarrassment to let someone else use the phone. I fail to understand why HP cannot fix at least the phone dialer app? More importantly if they cannot fix things, the least they can do is leave well enough alone. The 'phone dialer' was fine in webOS 1.4.5 and there was absolutely no reason to tinker with it, i.e. if they no longer had the qualified Palm devs who worked on the original webOS. I have yet to hear anyone point out anything positive gained from this update on either the Pre2 or the Pre3. There are lots of people lamenting the update though and some even looking for a way to revert back. Strangely enough, the only phone, i.e. the Veer, which could have gained additional functionality from the 2.2.4 update, has been left out in the cold. As for the 3.0.4 update on the TouchPad, that too at least for me, brought more problems than it fixed. The disappearing audio, the distorted audio, the TouchPad becoming unresponsive and thus forcing a hard reboot, are all issues that 3.0.4 brought. I can't even recall what, if any, fixes or benefits 3.0.4 brought. Considering the seriousness of the issues introduced by 3.0.4, not providing a fix in over two months is rather inexcusable.
    Pre3 (AT&T meta-doctored to ROW) webOS 2.2.4 build 3175
    TouchPad WiFi (32GB) - webOS 3.0.5 build 86
    App Catalog (US) - Vodafone (India)

    Treo 180 > 270 > 600 > 650 > 680 > Pre+ > Pre2 > Pre+ > Pre3 & tPad
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    First off, I am glad to see Hardbeatz back. Regarding the updates. Personally as far as the updates to the phones are concerned, each subsequent update, has only made the phone less usable. The most important app in a phone, even if it is smartphone, is the phone dialer app and the fact is, that the Phone dialer app has not worked properly since webOS 2.1.x In fact in 2.2.x it has become an embarrassment to let someone else use the phone. I fail to understand why HP cannot fix at least the phone dialer app? More importantly if they cannot fix things, the least they can do is leave well enough alone. The 'phone dialer' was fine in webOS 1.4.5 and there was absolutely no reason to tinker with it, i.e. if they no longer had the qualified Palm devs who worked on the original webOS. I have yet to hear anyone point out anything positive gained from this update on either the Pre2 or the Pre3. There are lots of people lamenting the update though and some even looking for a way to revert back. Strangely enough, the only phone, i.e. the Veer, which could have gained additional functionality from the 2.2.4 update, has been left out in the cold. As for the 3.0.4 update on the TouchPad, that too at least for me, brought more problems than it fixed. The disappearing audio, the distorted audio, the TouchPad becoming unresponsive and thus forcing a hard reboot, are all issues that 3.0.4 brought. I can't even recall what, if any, fixes or benefits 3.0.4 brought. Considering the seriousness of the issues introduced by 3.0.4, not providing a fix in over two months is rather inexcusable.
    Right on the money Sanjay. I now have 2 devices that I have to keep refusing to download updates on. They both are working fine and I am not about to risk screwing them up with these recent updates and then silence from HP about fixing the mess they make.
    How about this... why not ask ME, the owner of the thing if I want to update or not instead of forcing the issue?? Thank goodness for Internalz.
  16. zemoffm's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    First off, I am glad to see Hardbeatz back. Regarding the updates. Personally as far as the updates to the phones are concerned, each subsequent update, has only made the phone less usable. The most important app in a phone, even if it is smartphone, is the phone dialer app and the fact is, that the Phone dialer app has not worked properly since webOS 2.1.x In fact in 2.2.x it has become an embarrassment to let someone else use the phone. I fail to understand why HP cannot fix at least the phone dialer app? More importantly if they cannot fix things, the least they can do is leave well enough alone. The 'phone dialer' was fine in webOS 1.4.5 and there was absolutely no reason to tinker with it, i.e. if they no longer had the qualified Palm devs who worked on the original webOS. I have yet to hear anyone point out anything positive gained from this update on either the Pre2 or the Pre3. There are lots of people lamenting the update though and some even looking for a way to revert back. Strangely enough, the only phone, i.e. the Veer, which could have gained additional functionality from the 2.2.4 update, has been left out in the cold. As for the 3.0.4 update on the TouchPad, that too at least for me, brought more problems than it fixed. The disappearing audio, the distorted audio, the TouchPad becoming unresponsive and thus forcing a hard reboot, are all issues that 3.0.4 brought. I can't even recall what, if any, fixes or benefits 3.0.4 brought. Considering the seriousness of the issues introduced by 3.0.4, not providing a fix in over two months is rather inexcusable.
    Yea, I totally agree with this. I posted a list of bugs that have basically been around since the beginning of webos 2.x and have still not been fixed: Things that have changed on WebOS2.2.4

    Details are important. This is a big reason why Apple is doing so well. What you have needs to work well. I don't see any attention to detail in any of the webos 2.x updates, or any of the forced app updates like Bing Maps. They look nice on the surface (or sometimes even not: the fuzzy notification icons in 2.2.4 being a perfect example), but you dig down just a little bit and there are bugs all over the place. In fact many of these bugs exist in areas that are core to the software. It makes for a miserable user experience. I just feel that management should make these much more of a priority than it has been.

    I of course do not blame the individual software developers, or the vast majority of those 500+ employees. I realize they are just doing their jobs. But either management is not putting the right priorities down, or there is something wrong with the whole process.
  17. #37  
    It's possible they are in the same boat as Microsoft which led to the Windows kernel being OS/2 for so long. Enough people have may left that really understand it and now new people have to come up to speed so they don't jack it up (more). HP will make good on it.
    Last edited by Awats; 12/25/2011 at 12:16 AM.
  18. giggles's Avatar
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    #38  
    Stop with this bull**** of a process. HP with the capital and workforce they have are dragging their *** on essential os and app updates or pushing out buggy ones.
    trowany likes this.
  19. #39  
    The problem with that HP's logic is they haven't been protecting the shareholders either. I guess we have been kind of spoiled with the level of communication we have been used to with Palm to were even though we had unaddressed complaints we felt like they were listening to us. Shareholder over customer is the philosophy eh? I wish this and other Palm/WebOS forums could moblize to find someway to direct where efforts are going. The bug lists are cluttered with comments. The suggestions are scattered and the people with access don't seem to wanna rock the boat fearing loss of access. The movement to put WebOS on other devices got a lot of press. I don't want another device, I just want the ones I have to work like they have actually been thru beta testing. I have never felt that with a Microsoft OS release. They may have many security holes, but those aren't user experience affecting, and the user experience isn't interupted with the new and rather frequent updates. No mobile OS is perfect, I agree. But we are actively trying to make ours better, but don't feel engaged or heard.
  20. laserboy's Avatar
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       #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBellThunder View Post
    While I understand this is a pro webOS forum it seems anyone who speaks out against webOS and the TP is subject to ridicule. I've owner a TP and honestly it's not a great product. I guess the truth hurts. I would challenge anyone on this forum to try an iPad for a week and then tell me they would still want their TP. Now I know you'll say that the TP is much cheaper, but let's just keep price out of it. If anyone wants to do this go to an Apple store or Target and buy one. Apple has a 14 return policy, and I believe Target has a 30 return policy on iPads, it 90 days on everything else they sell ( that's why their my favorite store). And please would everyone stop the personal attacks, as I've owned a TP and I really wanted to like it but after a month with it I came to realize it wasn't for me. If you're happy with it then great, but if anyone takes my challenge please let me know how it works out. Oh buy the way Target and the Apple store don't charge a restocking fee but Best Buy does.

    Thanks for letting me vent.
    too bad you did mot make a bet! I started with an iPad (2mos) before I picked up a touchpad (my first webOS device). And guess which one I prefer. Just to give a hint, it does not stArt with eye, but is one letter better!

    however, there are key apps on the evil iPad that I would love to have equivalent: proofreader (PDF editing), pages, numbers, and keynote (word processing, spreadsheet, and presentation). While I have pickle and quick office, they don't match the apple side. Also, I need video out. So while for day to dAy use - calendar, emAil, web (I despise safari - dolphin is ok) I use the beloved TP, for many work tasks I have to use the iPad. Would love to stop using that thing. However, the iPad is a quality device. The TP is not nearly as well built but webOS is fantastic. I just picked up a Pixi plus for my son - and it is awesome! I don't know why more people did not like the palm/HP phones.
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