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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hedont View Post
    How about a dual booting W8 and webOS tablet. Maybe that CM could make its way as well as Ubuntu.
    But pretty much wishful thinking

    edit: makes me think... couldn't you run the emulator on the Slate??
    Yes, but it would probably run REEEEAAAAALLLLLLLLYYYYYY slow...
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcedhk View Post
    Yes, but it would probably run REEEEAAAAALLLLLLLLYYYYYY slow...
    Meg Whitman is good at her job and just isn't anybody for the job. She is very smart and will turn things around for HP and webOs
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by markawashington View Post
    Meg Whitman is good at her job and just isn't anybody for the job. She is very smart and will turn things around for HP and webOs
    I do have a lot of confidence in Meg, I think she's a smart lady and will make sound decisions for HP. Unfortunately though, that can cut both ways. Thanks to Meg webOS has received a bit of a reprieve, but if after a year or two if things haven't turned around I think she will cut off support for it. So once open webOS hits the market, we're going to have a limited window of opportunity for it to make an impact, or it's all over.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcedhk View Post
    I do have a lot of confidence in Meg, I think she's a smart lady and will make sound decisions for HP. Unfortunately though, that can cut both ways. Thanks to Meg webOS has received a bit of a reprieve, but if after a year or two if things haven't turned around I think she will cut off support for it. So once open webOS hits the market, we're going to have a limited window of opportunity for it to make an impact, or it's all over.
    She said 3 to 4 year plan, which is consistent with a startup. Sounds like they've developed something but there will be low investment, the community will have to contribute to make it worthwhile and get developers before HP would significantly invest. That's a high hurdle but Open webOS has a few things going for it that the closed platforms don/t.

    Meg Whitman and Marc Andreessen on webOS: 'We will use webOS in new hardware... in tablets' | The Verge
    "We have to build a business plan, we've got to build a 3 or 4 year product roadmap...

    Meg: Well first I want to set expectations about time frame. This is going to take some time. If you look back at the history of Mozilla or Red Hat these things did not become giant platforms over night. This in my view is a 4 or 5 year timeframe, and I want to make sure we really communicate that. And then I think the measures of success and I'm not going to give you numbers here but the measures of success are going to be: how many developers are writing for this platform? Have there been other hardware manufacturers who have signed on and built devices, whether they be tablets or devices of the future or smartphones? And ultimately, the ability of developers to make money.

    But you think this is 4 or 5 years before you can evaluate if it's doing what you want it to do?

    Meg: There will be milestones along the way, but one thing I know about technology is that if you believe in something, you have to have a longer term horizon than next week, next quarter, or next year. When we looked at alternatives, we said 'what will be affordable to HP to invest, and get this thing going,' and we'll monitor along the way. There's a bit of a test and iterate here it's not just something you say 'if it's not perfect in a year, we're out of here.'
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 03/30/2012 at 09:48 PM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    She said 3 to 4 year plan, which is consistent with a startup. Sounds like they've developed something but there will be low investment, the community will have to contribute to make it worthwhile and get developers before HP would significantly invest. That's a high hurdle but Open webOS has a few things going for it that the closed platforms don/t.

    ww.theverge.com/2011/12/9/2624209/meg-whitman-marc-andreessen-web-os-open-source-interview
    "We have to build a business plan, we've got to build a 3 or 4 year product roadmap...

    Meg: Well first I want to set expectations about time frame. This is going to take some time. If you look back at the history of Mozilla or Red Hat these things did not become giant platforms over night. This in my view is a 4 or 5 year timeframe, and I want to make sure we really communicate that. And then I think the measures of success and I'm not going to give you numbers here but the measures of success are going to be: how many developers are writing for this platform? Have there been other hardware manufacturers who have signed on and built devices, whether they be tablets or devices of the future or smartphones? And ultimately, the ability of developers to make money.

    But you think this is 4 or 5 years before you can evaluate if it's doing what you want it to do?

    Meg: There will be milestones along the way, but one thing I know about technology is that if you believe in something, you have to have a longer term horizon than next week, next quarter, or next year. When we looked at alternatives, we said 'what will be affordable to HP to invest, and get this thing going,' and we'll monitor along the way. There's a bit of a test and iterate here it's not just something you say 'if it's not perfect in a year, we're out of here.'
    Thanks for posting this - I hadn't seen this interview. Good to know that she is committing to 3 to 4 years - that's a good little while. If we can't make something of webOS by then, then we probably would never be able to.
  6. #26  
    This is very encouraging. Thanks for posting the link to that interview. I would definitely buy a TP2.
  7. #27  
    She won't be there in 3 to 4 years.
  8. #28  
    <thread cleansed>

    Please remember to stay on-topic. Political comments are unneeded. Thanks!
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcedhk View Post
    Thanks for posting this - I hadn't seen this interview. Good to know that she is committing to 3 to 4 years - that's a good little while. If we can't make something of webOS by then, then we probably would never be able to.

    Well, I wouldn't place to much faith in HP specially with the mess they created with this platform. Mrs Whitman promised a 3 to 4 years of commitment to this WebOS platform, but by looking into this fiasco (with)HP mostly doing all the managing around WebOS cut those years in half.

    With reading that extended interview, Mrs Whitman isn't looking like the smartest tool in the shed(in my opinion). Before anyone on this forum take my head off, allow me to explain -- HP new commitment with using Windows 8 tablets, instead of dedicating their resources to create new devices that runs on WebOS is a terrible decision. I'm still perplexed at the idea of HP supporting more Windows than their own software which they spend a big pile of cash from Palm. All HP is doing is creating more bad press as the same time for WebOS, because it will led to believe than WebOS isn't well capable of capturing the mobile market than big, almighty Microsoft with their windows 8 operating system. And cutting more jobs out of WebOS unit(to 250 teams), for me that more stupidity out HP because it just shows of how little of investments HP is making into WebOS.

    So here's the upshot: Future manufacturers of cellphone companies will find very conflicting when HP decides to market WebOS to into open. If I will be a CEO of HTC or Samsung, it will be troublesome for me to consider WebOS putting them on my mobile devices. I wouldnt even put any sort of investing into WebOS at all, when you look closer into HP decisions of not making any more hardware for WebOS devices. It will make me think, Why is HP putting their backs into Microsoft future platform, instead of their own WebOS system ? And How much money will Samsung have to invest to make a profitable business out of WebOS platform, money that HP is not investing themselves ? Think about these things, cause it certainly doesn't look very hopeful for WebOS if HP continues with their mismanagement and lack of faith.
    Owner of an HP TouchPad (32GB) and a brand new Palm Pre 3 (16GB) for VZ wireless.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by PalmPixi_User23 View Post
    With reading that extended interview, Mrs Whitman isn't looking like the smartest tool in the shed(in my opinion). Before anyone on this forum take my head off, allow me to explain -- HP new commitment with using Windows 8 tablets, instead of dedicating their resources to create new devices that runs on WebOS is a terrible decision. I'm still perplexed at the idea of HP supporting more Windows than their own software which they spend a big pile of cash from Palm. .
    I'm going to try to answer this once.

    HP did not have the cash to fund webOS as creating and nurturing a new OS until it catches on is expensive.
    Windows 8 will put food on the table for them and Microsoft is not only picking up the tab for the OS (rumors are for eg MSFT paid ATT $25 million just to hawk one phone, so you can supporting an OS takes gobs and gobs of cash with uncertain future about whether that will pay off) but MSFT still has the largest base of installed pcs so a lot of people will be looking at these win 8 tablets.

    That said, HP knows its longterm future can't just be win8 and it also knows win8 could fail. So it has created an alternate plan to keep webOS alive and kicking in case needed. The alternate plan requires a much more modest investment of cash from HP thereby keeping HP's risk down. At the same time, it relies much more heavily on the community to innovate for webOS. Therefore it puts the future of webOS software into the hands of folks like Rod and company. And into the hands of hardware manufacturers who just might grow increasingly uneasy with google if say google's motorola tablets get flagship status in the new google store while the other manufacturers get back seat status.

    There are many many reasons to like webOS over the other OS's including the fact that it will be more open and its elegance handles multitasking better than the others.
    Whether Whitman is smart or not will depend on the next few years. Time will tell.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    I'm going to try to answer this once.

    HP did not have the cash to fund webOS as creating and nurturing a new OS until it catches on is expensive.
    Let me fix that for you: Palm didn't have the cash - that's why it sold itself to HP. HP does have the cash - they simply lost the will to risk it. I think there was internal infighting about the right strategy. Bradley lost the fight and got fired. Leo was picked to do a job (repositioning HP to follow IBMs path instead of Apples). The market didn't like that one bit - so the internal politics shifted again and Leo got fired.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Windows 8 will put food on the table for them and Microsoft is not only picking up the tab for the OS (rumors are for eg MSFT paid ATT $25 million just to hawk one phone, so you can supporting an OS takes gobs and gobs of cash with uncertain future about whether that will pay off) but MSFT still has the largest base of installed pcs so a lot of people will be looking at these win 8 tablets.
    Looking at - sure. Buying in large numbers - we'll see. It's not a given.
    HP is trying to go with W8 because it looks like the safer choice.
    MS Windows was so successful for so long - it surely will stay successful (is the thinking/hope). Right?

    But why is Windows still so widespread? Because it's fast, efficient, safe, stable and beloved by its fans?
    Nope. It's bloated, used to crash a lot (got better in recent years though), is extremely unsafe (got better in recent years though) and is far from having a cult following like MacOS/IOS.

    People are actually either indifferent to Windows or actively despise it. The reason it's so successful is because it was successful in the past (partly by illegal activities, partly by clever marketing, partly by reaching critical mass first) and people are used to it.
    The 2 main selling points are familiarity and compatibility.

    And this is a big problem for MS - because W8 is going to break both.
    Metro looks and works very unfamiliar. And on tablets (with ARM hardware) it will be incompatible.
    For the typical user the OS is close to irrelevant. It's an application launcher. The main point is to find your files and get into Word, Excel, Photoshop or whatever you need for work with not too much hassle.
    Some of the multitude of Windows Applications will be ported at start - certainly MS Offfice and a few others by MS and close partners.

    But the vast majority of tools, utilities and many, many established big Applications will not work on W8 at launch. And the software vendors willl wait and see if the effort of porting those applications is worthwhile.

    Enterprise mostly skipped Vista. Vista was a big flop. Retraining people and upgrading hardware is costly and annoying. They finally started moving to W7 - MS doesn't leave much choice with discontinuing XP.
    They might (and probably will) be very reluctant to switch again to yet another even more unfamiliar version so soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    That said, HP knows its longterm future can't just be win8 and it also knows win8 could fail. So it has created an alternate plan to keep webOS alive and kicking in case needed. The alternate plan requires a much more modest investment of cash from HP thereby keeping HP's risk down. At the same time, it relies much more heavily on the community to innovate for webOS. Therefore it puts the future of webOS software into the hands of folks like Rod and company. And into the hands of hardware manufacturers who just might grow increasingly uneasy with google if say google's motorola tablets get flagship status in the new google store while the other manufacturers get back seat status..
    Yup - here we agree completely. HP is trying to go with - what they hope - is the safer choice: W8.
    But they realize that it might not be that safe. Windows Mobile languished and finally died. WP7 is far from being a succcess and needs massive cash infusions for marketing to keep afloat. And W8 might turn out to be a major flop - another Vista - by end of next year.

    HP will still need a mobile strategy then and they keep webos around on minimal life support to keep their options open.

    Whether that's smart only time will tell and obviously we on the outside lack a lot of information and have to speculate a lot.

    But to me the strategy looks timid and is certainly not the strategy of a market leader.
    On the plus side for W8:
    * Will look more safe from an investors POV
    * Marketing cost will be shared by MS and others.
    * Dev costs are done by MS
    * Getting devs on board will likely be easier - at least at first

    OTOH:
    * Investors are a fickle bunch - their opinions are short term. If you look at Apple, then ignoring conventional wisdom and following your own vision can lead to great succcess
    * Not only the costs will shared with others - also the profits.
    * If W8 turns out to be a success then eventually MS will not only have covered none of the costs but make torns of money. HP will pay licence fees for all those W8 copies they sell. That's MS core business after all. They only invest money now and spread money-love around because they believe that will pay out nicely later.
    * Devs will eventually work on any platform that makes them money - and drop those that don't. Doesn't matter who produces the platform. Apple is restrictive and annoying to devs - but IOS brings in the big bucks in the mobile market - so that's where the devs (mostly) are now.
    * HP will have to invest (and risk) a lot of money either way. With webos they would have to invest more in the short term - but also reap more benefits in the long term - if successful.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Let me fix that for you: Palm didn't have the cash - that's why it sold itself to HP. HP does have the cash - they simply lost the will to risk it. I think there was internal infighting about the right strategy. Bradley lost the fight and got fired. Leo was picked to do a job (repositioning HP to follow IBMs path instead of Apples). The market didn't like that one bit - so the internal politics shifted again and Leo got fired.



    Looking at - sure. Buying in large numbers - we'll see. It's not a given.
    HP is trying to go with W8 because it looks like the safer choice.
    MS Windows was so successful for so long - it surely will stay successful (is the thinking/hope). Right?

    But why is Windows still so widespread? Because it's fast, efficient, safe, stable and beloved by its fans?
    Nope. It's bloated, used to crash a lot (got better in recent years though), is extremely unsafe (got better in recent years though) and is far from having a cult following like MacOS/IOS.

    People are actually either indifferent to Windows or actively despise it. The reason it's so successful is because it was successful in the past (partly by illegal activities, partly by clever marketing, partly by reaching critical mass first) and people are used to it.
    The 2 main selling points are familiarity and compatibility.

    And this is a big problem for MS - because W8 is going to break both.
    Metro looks and works very unfamiliar. And on tablets (with ARM hardware) it will be incompatible.
    For the typical user the OS is close to irrelevant. It's an application launcher. The main point is to find your files and get into Word, Excel, Photoshop or whatever you need for work with not too much hassle.
    Some of the multitude of Windows Applications will be ported at start - certainly MS Offfice and a few others by MS and close partners.

    But the vast majority of tools, utilities and many, many established big Applications will not work on W8 at launch. And the software vendors willl wait and see if the effort of porting those applications is worthwhile.

    Enterprise mostly skipped Vista. Vista was a big flop. Retraining people and upgrading hardware is costly and annoying. They finally started moving to W7 - MS doesn't leave much choice with discontinuing XP.
    They might (and probably will) be very reluctant to switch again to yet another even more unfamiliar version so soon.



    Yup - here we agree completely. HP is trying to go with - what they hope - is the safer choice: W8.
    But they realize that it might not be that safe. Windows Mobile languished and finally died. WP7 is far from being a succcess and needs massive cash infusions for marketing to keep afloat. And W8 might turn out to be a major flop - another Vista - by end of next year.

    HP will still need a mobile strategy then and they keep webos around on minimal life support to keep their options open.

    Whether that's smart only time will tell and obviously we on the outside lack a lot of information and have to speculate a lot.

    But to me the strategy looks timid and is certainly not the strategy of a market leader.
    On the plus side for W8:
    * Will look more safe from an investors POV
    * Marketing cost will be shared by MS and others.
    * Dev costs are done by MS
    * Getting devs on board will likely be easier - at least at first

    OTOH:
    * Investors are a fickle bunch - their opinions are short term. If you look at Apple, then ignoring conventional wisdom and following your own vision can lead to great succcess
    * Not only the costs will shared with others - also the profits.
    * If W8 turns out to be a success then eventually MS will not only have covered none of the costs but make torns of money. HP will pay licence fees for all those W8 copies they sell. That's MS core business after all. They only invest money now and spread money-love around because they believe that will pay out nicely later.
    * Devs will eventually work on any platform that makes them money - and drop those that don't. Doesn't matter who produces the platform. Apple is restrictive and annoying to devs - but IOS brings in the big bucks in the mobile market - so that's where the devs (mostly) are now.
    * HP will have to invest (and risk) a lot of money either way. With webos they would have to invest more in the short term - but also reap more benefits in the long term - if successful.
    I agree with your edits.

    Also noticed the new nokia win phone is being reviewed and the reviews I saw seem mixed at best. That said, I assume MSFT still has a lot of pull in enterprise so those companies still picking up tab for cell phones for employees (are any still out there?) may bite. The critics I read liked the design but thought screen technology was old and also were unhappy about breadth of app selection even though big ones like netflix and 4square were there. To some extent I have sympathy with MSFT as the poor app selection was a critique of webOS also and geez, it takes time for devs to make the apps, Apple did not have a boatload on day 1 either. That said, I agree that metro UI is boring.
    Read somewhere (businessinsider?) that manufacturers no longer trust google and so are forking android, ala Amazon. If true I hope the new webOS comes out soon and some of these guys decide to try it.

    Edit:

    "For the typical user the OS is close to irrelevant. It's an application launcher. The main point is to find your files and get into Word, Excel, Photoshop or whatever you need for work with not too much hassle."

    This sentence of yours caught my eye. Finally looked at iPad and was shocked at how hard it was to find files. It was a throwback to having to open an app to find a file rather than just calling out the file by name. Had to dig around to find reviewers that were discussing this rather than glossing over it.
  13. #33  
    "For the typical user the OS is close to irrelevant. It's an application launcher. The main point is to find your files and get into Word, Excel, Photoshop or whatever you need for work with not too much hassle."

    For most users of tablets that I have seen, however, its not just (or even primarily) work-related apps like Word that is making the difference, its the web browsing experience and how easy it is to get the "cool/fun" apps people think they want. I-Pad does that better than most of the Androids out there.
    dignitary and Vistaus like this.
  14. #34  
    Lol, I like old threads, even though, the dust on them tends to make me cough a bit *coff, coff*

    My 2 cents:
    The world revolves around HP, while they stand still as a rabbit before the snake. If they can't get out of their paralysis, they will die.

    The signs are there since a few years now, that hardware market is going more and more mobile. But except for Notebooks, HP has nothing to offer. No Smartphones. No Pads.
    Result:
    Exclusive: HP's $600 million GM services deal at risk: sources | Reuters

    In YO face.
    Had you managed the WebOS introduction more clever (pricing and marketing wise), you would at least have a foot in the door. Now you go from plan to plan (wait, Win8 ? ... now maybe not Win8 ... ) and fishtail around without concept and all.
    "Hold on to your hat" said the snail, riding on the turtoise ...
    Last edited by Buddy1969; 07/17/2012 at 03:35 AM.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
    pitsop likes this.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    This sentence of yours caught my eye. Finally looked at iPad and was shocked at how hard it was to find files. It was a throwback to having to open an app to find a file rather than just calling out the file by name. Had to dig around to find reviewers that were discussing this rather than glossing over it.
    I think that's largely because it's simply not very important to the majority of ipad users. You are clearly not that sort of user. But, in my observation of people i know that have ipads they aren't looking for a file. They have the device to accomplish a given tasks. For example, they want to play words with friends, or surf the web, or check the weather or watch netflix. They simply go to the app. Even if they want to just play music they don't go digging for the file they go to the music app and play it there. The thing is if you know where the file is it's not hard to find. Like i have quickoffice and it's connected to a sugarsync account. That's where my files are. Like any system you just have to learn to use it. But i just don't think people care that much about how files open.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by markawashington View Post
    Meg Whitman is good at her job and just isn't anybody for the job. She is very smart and will turn things around for HP and webOs
    I'd definitely take a slower but nicer OS like WebOS over a fast but crappy Android OS. Going to my Galaxy S2 is like taking a step backwards in the OS department. You do learn to tolerate it after a year or so though... even though you are always wishing it had WebOS on it.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by trexlee001 View Post
    Yes, because every tablet HP makes in the future will have WebOs only... I'm sure HP has absolutely no plans to produce tablets with Windows 8 as their OS after microsoft launches it..(rollseyes)
    sorry dude but hp already announced a hp slate with windows 8. i hope they make more webos tablets in 2013
  18. cgk
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    #38  
    Any sign of those tablets yet? Maybe an advert with Meg riding a Unicorn and carrying a WebOS tablet?
    fxspec06 likes this.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Any sign of those tablets yet? Maybe an advert with Meg riding a Unicorn and carrying a WebOS tablet?
    technically HP could still make a webos tablet

    gram would just handle the software side

    just sayin... lol
    Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
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  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    technically HP could still make a webos tablet

    gram would just handle the software side

    just sayin... lol
    I was just thinking the same thing!
    White Z10, Touchpad 16GB [Retired: Pre 3, Pre 2, Pixi Plus, Pre Plus]
    Back on a BlackBerry after 2 1/2 years with WebOS.

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