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  1. #101  
    Sorry, we can't go by your believes.
    We are going by everyone's beliefs, including yours, since we don't have any hard numbers from HP to back anything anyone has said here, whether positive or negative, up. Heck, half of the threads on PreCentral are speculative.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  2. #102  
    A lot of people using other OS's are still here, cause they love webOS deep down, and just cant understand why a lot of basic things that were even present in palm OS couldnt be in webOS leave aside all new innovation in android and iOS. We are all tired of hearing, well when iOS was released it never was this good. We would be all happy if webOS actually did well and performed well. Like a browser that was better than safari.
    I hear you, but I think this is the wrong place to complain about those issues. Hitting up HP's official blog might help with that. This is a place where webOS users come to help each other. Nothing being said in the negative is helpful, it's just pointing out flaws or decisions we already know about.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  3. #103  
    KK,

    Let's gonna see for other side: IF I go until Androforums or AppleForums and post the same words that his members are posting here, I believe that I gonna be blocked in few time...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  4. #104  
    Well what sort of figures are we talking? Forgetting costs and app giveouts - if they did $300 million, HP's cut would have been @ $100 million. However, I saw a story today that said the android market has taken $350 million in revenue* [I]over it's life. Does it seem likely that in such a short period of time that HP took in anything near that level of revenue?

    What's your guestimate of what sort of figures we are talking about?



    How is it deceitful? I'm not comparing every Kindle Fire sold ever - I'm talking about the period of 15th October - 31 December 2011 - a six week period which I *think* based on estimates of sales so far means that it will push the Touch-pad down to 3rd for the whole 2011 period.


    * excluding in-app purchases.

    My guestimates were listed several post ago. We are just rehashing old stuff, but here you go:

    ---------------
    Since I have my handy dandy calculator out, I will put to rest some of the misconceptions and numbers that the naysayers in the forum seem spout. The only true number we know of so far is the $200 million in sales on the TouchPad. Let's do the math:

    Option A. HP only sells 204,000 TouchPads. Using only unit sales as a driver for this, $200 million divided by 204,000 equals $980 average cost per unit. So you are telling me that HP sold all of their TouchPads at over close to $1000 per unit? No way!

    Option B. HP sales 1 million TouchPads. $200 million divided by 1 million equals $200 average cost per unit. Sounds about right. Oh wait: "The TouchPad is so crappy that no one would pay more than the fire sale price for it!"

    Option C. HP sales 1 million TouchPads at the fire sale price. Average cost per unit was about $125. So $125 times 1 million equals $125 million. Close to $200 million and plausible, but you have to account for the other $75 million. Maybe it was in app sales? Let's see $75 million divided by 1 million devices equals a profit (since apps don't usually sale at a "loss") of about $75 per TouchPad for HP. Since HP's share is probably less than a third of actual app sales the only way for that to work is if the total sales for apps was about $225 million or $225 per TouchPad. I definitely don't believe that and I know the naysayers don't because: "HP can't make a size able profit on app and service sales"

    Option D. HP sold more than 1 million TouchPads. Makes sense but....

    See where I'm going here? The basic math does not add up for your negativity about the TouchPad. Maybe one of you naysayers can tell us how HP only sold 204,000 TouchPads yet made $200 million in sales? That would be interesting.
    --------------

    Still interested in your guestimations and breakdown of where the all of $200 million came from given the different numbers, high and low, of TouchPads sold.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    KK,

    Let's gonna see for other side: IF I go until Androforums or AppleForums and post the same words that his members are posting here, I believe that I gonna be blocked in few time...


    Best Regards...
    I don't know about Android forums, but you won't be blocked on the most popular Apple forum.
  6. cgk
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       #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    I don't know about Android forums, but you won't be blocked on the most popular Apple forum.
    I don't think you would be over at android central either.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    My guestimates were listed several post ago. We are just rehashing old stuff, but here you go:

    ---------------
    Since I have my handy dandy calculator out, I will put to rest some of the misconceptions and numbers that the naysayers in the forum seem spout. The only true number we know of so far is the $200 million in sales on the TouchPad. Let's do the math:

    Option A. HP only sells 204,000 TouchPads. Using only unit sales as a driver for this, $200 million divided by 204,000 equals $980 average cost per unit. So you are telling me that HP sold all of their TouchPads at over close to $1000 per unit? No way!

    Option B. HP sales 1 million TouchPads. $200 million divided by 1 million equals $200 average cost per unit. Sounds about right. Oh wait: "The TouchPad is so crappy that no one would pay more than the fire sale price for it!"

    Option C. HP sales 1 million TouchPads at the fire sale price. Average cost per unit was about $125. So $125 times 1 million equals $125 million. Close to $200 million and plausible, but you have to account for the other $75 million. Maybe it was in app sales? Let's see $75 million divided by 1 million devices equals a profit (since apps don't usually sale at a "loss") of about $75 per TouchPad for HP. Since HP's share is probably less than a third of actual app sales the only way for that to work is if the total sales for apps was about $225 million or $225 per TouchPad. I definitely don't believe that and I know the naysayers don't because: "HP can't make a size able profit on app and service sales"

    Option D. HP sold more than 1 million TouchPads. Makes sense but....

    See where I'm going here? The basic math does not add up for your negativity about the TouchPad. Maybe one of you naysayers can tell us how HP only sold 204,000 TouchPads yet made $200 million in sales? That would be interesting.
    --------------

    Still interested in your guestimations and breakdown of where the all of $200 million came from given the different numbers, high and low, of TouchPads sold.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    These are the numbers that matter:
    From:WebOSRoundup
    Hewlett-Packard released their Quarter 4/Fiscal Year 2011 report earlier today and there’s an interesting, if not unfortunate segment relating to webOS. Apparently, HP is reporting an after-tax loss of $3.3 billion over the past fiscal year. What’s more disturbing is that they lost $2.1 billion in the past quarter alone relating to the winding down of webOS device operations. This means that over the first three quarters of the fiscal year, HP spent $1.2 billion on webOS — the employees, the contracts to make devices, etc., while nearly doubling that expense in just one final quarter. This, of course, is mainly due to their massive loss by putting the TouchPad on a fire sale for $99 or $149 for the 16gb or 32gb units respectively.

    Overall we’re not sure HP’s going to make the decision to invest billions more into webOS. It’s hard to justify when they’ve essentially spent over $4.5 billion on it since they acquired it for $1.2 billion in July 2010.


    From HP's report:HP Investor Relations - Financial news
    Fiscal 2011 non-GAAP net revenue includes an additional $0.2 billion of revenue resulting from the exclusion of contra revenue associated with sales incentive programs implemented in the fourth quarter in connection with the wind down of HP's webOS device business, net of fourth quarter webOS device revenue. Non-GAAP earnings and operating profit information excludes after-tax costs of $3.3 billion, or $1.56 per diluted share, related to the wind down of HP's webOS device business, impairment of goodwill and purchased intangible assets, amortization of purchased intangible assets, restructuring charges and acquisition-related charges.

    Additional reading:
    HP reports Q4 and 2011 full year results – lost $3.3 billion on webOS
    Last edited by sinsin07; 11/24/2011 at 01:03 PM.
  8. #108  
    These are the numbers that matter:

    [I]Hewlett-Packard released their Quarter 4/Fiscal Year 2011 report earlier today and there’s an interesting, if not unfortunate segment relating to webOS. Apparently, HP is reporting an after-tax loss of $3.3 billion over the past fiscal year. What’s more disturbing is that they lost $2.1 billion in the past quarter alone relating to the winding down of webOS device operations. This means that over the first three quarters of the fiscal year, HP spent $1.2 billion on webOS — the employees, the contracts to make devices, etc., while nearly doubling that expense in just one final quarter. This, of course, is mainly due to their massive loss by putting the TouchPad on a fire sale for $99 or $149 for the 16gb or 32gb units respectively.

    Overall we’re not sure HP’s going to make the decision to invest billions more into webOS. It’s hard to justify when they’ve essentially spent over $4.5 billion on it since they acquired it for $1.2 billion in July 2010.

    From:WebOSRoundup

    HP reports Q4 and 2011 full year results – lost $3.3 billion on webOS

    No they don't matter to this thread. There are other threads covering this in detail. What matters to this thread is that the TouchPad is the number 2 selling tablet. What matters to this thread is the number of TouchPads sold vs other tablets sold during the same time period. That is the topic...


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    No they don't matter to this thread. There are other threads covering this in detail. What matters to this thread is that the TouchPad is the number 2 selling tablet. What matters to this thread is the number of TouchPads sold vs other tablets sold during the same time period. That is the topic...
    - Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    You added the math.

    The number two position is an anomaly which market conditions will correct.
  10. #110  
    You added the math.

    The number two position is an anomaly which market conditions will correct.

    The math stayed on topic. Anomalies don't last for 3 whole quarters. However, whether it is an anomaly or not, it's still good news given the uncertain future of the OS. It also puts to rest some negatives spouted here before and after the fire sale. The TouchPad has beat out all of the Android favorites, to include the Galaxy Tab. Some of you are hoping that the Fire becomes the Android tablet to knock it down from it's number 2 spot, giving up on the Android tablets they said would be number 2 months ago. Too bad Amazon won't even acknowledge the fact that the Fire runs Android and that it is an older version of Android that is highly modified not to look like Android to boot.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  11. cgk
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       #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    The math stayed on topic. Anomalies don't last for 3 whole quarters. However, whether it is an anomaly or not, it's still good news given the uncertain future of the OS. It also puts to rest some negatives spouted here before and after the fire sale. The TouchPad has beat out all of the Android favorites, to include the Galaxy Tab. Some of you are hoping that the Fire becomes the Android tablet to knock it down from it's number 2 spot, giving up on the Android tablets they said would be number 2 months ago. Too bad Amazon won't even acknowledge the fact that the Fire runs Android and that it is an older version of Android that is highly modified not to look like Android to boot.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    Unless everyone (as in analysts) is completely wrong, it's impossible for to not to - the presales across the first five days were 250,000.
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    The math stayed on topic. Anomalies don't last for 3 whole quarters. However, whether it is an anomaly or not, it's still good news given the uncertain future of the OS. It also puts to rest some negatives spouted here before and after the fire sale. The TouchPad has beat out all of the Android favorites, to include the Galaxy Tab. Some of you are hoping that the Fire becomes the Android tablet to knock it down from it's number 2 spot, giving up on the Android tablets they said would be number 2 months ago. Too bad Amazon won't even acknowledge the fact that the Fire runs Android and that it is an older version of Android that is highly modified not to look like Android to boot.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    The touchpad was number two for three quarters? That's great. Too bad it's defunct. That's one piece of amazing irony. It's number 2, has been for three quarters, yet HP killed it 49 days in, and it contributed to 3.83 billion in loses.

    Well gotta go kill a turkey, and no I don't mean the Touchpad.
  13. #113  
    I don't know about Android forums, but you won't be blocked on the most popular Apple forum.
    Are refering about...???


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    contributed to 3.83 billion in loses.
    Hein? Touchpad? 3.83 Bi? Have you this information in documents?

    Because until where I know, each employee contributed to loses in some company...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  15. #115  
    Unless everyone (as in analysts) is completely wrong, it's impossible for to not to - the presales across the first five days were 250,000.

    Yes, the Fire is doing well and I don't doubt it will post some impressive sales numbers. However, analyst say a lot of things will do well or bad and what they say doesn't really pan out.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    Last edited by k4ever; 11/24/2011 at 02:26 PM.
  16. #116  
    I'll be Pollyanna (again): I hope HP sold a boatload of Touchpads, enough to keep interest and some level of development going to help support a reasonably large installed base. I can also hope they are still building out stranded inventory and producing more of them for sale, bundling, whatever.

    Hmmm, I wonder if I was on-topic enough.

    Happy Thanksgiving all!

    ~~~
  17. #117  
    The touchpad was number two for three quarters? That's great. Too bad it's defunct. That's one piece of amazing irony. It's number 2, has been for three quarters, yet HP killed it 49 days in, and it contributed to 3.83 billion in loses.

    Well gotta go kill a turkey, and no I don't mean the Touchpad.
    Looks more like the decision to kill it (along with PCs) contributed more to the losses then its popularity. Happy Thanksgiving!


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    I have a dream... and in this dream, I'll gonna understand what the fans of the other SO's still doing here...

    Because one thing I know: of course that is not to help anybody...


    Best Regards...
    Because everything in webOS land is epic. All this hopes and faliures makes it really unique phenomenon. So dysfunctional and flawed that it's almost like person, not just piece of tech.
  19. palmless's Avatar
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    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    What do you think it means? Its really complicated.
    It's not complicated, but it is amusing to see dozens of folks jumping on the flawed misunderstanding that this means HP had $200M of Touchpad revenue. We cannot determine the Touchpad revenue from this sentence.

    Much better to take the fire sale price times the known 200k units to determine the revenue, rather than try to estimate all of the contras.

    If I burned down my house, I might have the brightest house in the neighborhood. For a few hours. That's the true analogy to the TP at #2 in tablet sales. Sell hundreds of dollars below cost and even a loser* product can sell big unit numbers. If your definition of "big" is "neglible compared to the successful product, but momentarily more than the other products at the bottom of the market".

    *If you are bothered by my characterization of the TP as a loser product, tell me a bit about why it was a winner. Other than "It sold at 1/50th the numbers of the IPad, once it was priced well below its own cost and below half the iPad's selling price".
    sinsin07 likes this.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Palmless View Post
    It's not complicated, but it is amusing to see dozens of folks jumping on the flawed misunderstanding that this means HP had $200M of Touchpad revenue. We cannot determine the Touchpad revenue from this sentence.
    So, this $200 m related to webOS is what? If not loss and not an income of any sort, what is this $200m related to webOS sales in 2011? HP launched Veer and Touchpad in 2011, so if this amount of money is related to webOS than it has to be related to Veer or Touchpad. And, if this $200m is not categorized as loss, than it has to be income of some sort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmless View Post
    Much better to take the fire sale price times the known 200k units to determine the revenue, rather than try to estimate all of the contras.
    Why is this better? How do you know that correct amount of sold Touchpads is 200k?

    Maybe you don't read thoroughly, but actually I never stated that Touchpad sales numbers are sign of dominance or supremacy of any kind. My thoughts are quite opposite.
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