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  1. #81  
    Such a passionate thread regarding updates. From my understanding EVERY WebOS device exhibit the same behaviour on OS updates. Updates are downloaded and will be installed automatically after it's ready. You have 3 (THREE) DAYS of grace period where you can hit that install later button, after which the device will be updated whether you like it or not. It's more than 3 days after 3.0.4 came out, right?

    Most users prefers this, which is why automatic OTA updates were extolled as a virtue against other OS when the Pre first came out. The ones that do not like this or have a problem will come to the forum and complain loudly. Same behaviour at every updates.

    For Palm or later HP, even for a developer, that means less headache because they only need to support the latest OS version for each device. At least that's the theory.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    The worst part of the auto update are at least 3 confirmed bugs, that in and of themselves are unacceptable, let alone all 3 together. (speaker issue, autocorrect malfunction and accelerometer).
    You missed the biggest one, the Touchstone issue (TP's in 3rd party cases won't charge on the Touchstone anymore).
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdaneophyte View Post
    Such a passionate thread regarding updates. From my understanding EVERY WebOS device exhibit the same behaviour on OS updates. Updates are downloaded and will be installed automatically after it's ready. You have 3 (THREE) DAYS of grace period where you can hit that install later button, after which the device will be updated whether you like it or not. It's more than 3 days after 3.0.4 came out, right?

    Most users prefers this, which is why automatic OTA updates were extolled as a virtue against other OS when the Pre first came out. The ones that do not like this or have a problem will come to the forum and complain loudly. Same behaviour at every updates.

    For Palm or later HP, even for a developer, that means less headache because they only need to support the latest OS version for each device. At least that's the theory.
    If you don't want the update (like me) just follow the advice of several folks who posted days ago - turn off the UpdateDaemon. You can do this in Novaterm on your pc (connect to the pc and choose "close", not usb) or you can do this in xterm (xecutah-xterm).
    Make sure you are in developer mode or that your disk is writeable.

    Type:

    cd /usr/bin <enter>
    chmod -x UpdateDaemon <enter?> and make sure you use upper case where it shows

    then do a device restart

    and you are safe from updating until you are ready. When you are ready to update,
    repeat the process with one exception:

    cd /usr/bin <enter>
    chmod +x UpdateDaemon <enter> note the +x instead of the -x

    and restart the touchpad. Now you can update.

    Again, I did not invent this, but I looked through the forums, and at least a couple of people posted this solution. Sorry I cannot remember who they were, but yu can do a search on UpdateDaemon to find out. I followed their advice.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
    drluv and everythingsablur like this.
  4. 1969bob's Avatar
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by fsx100 View Post
    My TP also updated itself overnight, even though I specifically told it not to install when the download first completed.

    D*mn you, HP.

    Its my TP, and you have to give me the CHOICE of how/when I want to update the OS on it.

    Now all my Preware patches etc, dont work.
    Yes me too update auto overnight had to reinstall all patches (only three(3))

    not back to runing 1.5 OK! BUT I WANT TO GET IT TO 1.7 HOW?
  5. DeadVim's Avatar
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    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdaneophyte View Post
    Such a passionate thread regarding updates. From my understanding EVERY WebOS device exhibit the same behaviour on OS updates. Updates are downloaded and will be installed automatically after it's ready. You have 3 (THREE) DAYS of grace period where you can hit that install later button, after which the device will be updated whether you like it or not. It's more than 3 days after 3.0.4 came out, right?

    Most users prefers this, which is why automatic OTA updates were extolled as a virtue against other OS when the Pre first came out. The ones that do not like this or have a problem will come to the forum and complain loudly. Same behaviour at every updates.

    For Palm or later HP, even for a developer, that means less headache because they only need to support the latest OS version for each device. At least that's the theory.
    3 days grace period then it installs anyway?

    This gets worse.

    Yeh, the 'one version' support idea is great in theory. I have developed and supported software for many years and it is a real pain to regression test.

    The theory breaks down when:
    - The OS has had to be unofficially patched so often that there are many conflicts that take more than 3 days to resolve.

    - The officially update clearly has not be tested thoroughly by what is left of the dev team

    - The chance of further official patches to fix the oversights decrease by the day

    It seems to be more of a virtue for the HP update team and not for the poor sods that have to deal with it.

    If most users prefer this then I am happy to be in the minority.
    Do you like Touchpads? Do you like Android? Do you hate Android but just need an app or two? Do you just like belonging to forums? Try this: http://forums.webosnation.com/android-touchpad/
    lar3ry likes this.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by lar3ry View Post
    Hear hear! While I don't really wish him or her uneployment and a massive debt, I do sincerely hope whoever did it (and whoever defends it <you know who you are>) has been either fired or severely chastised.
    Sadly (for you), I have not been fired or severely chastised.

    The point of this thread has pretty much gone off course.

    1. The system is behaving correctly and is working as intended.
    2. Nothing has changed that is special for TouchPads so this is nothing "new."
    3. I have provided a place where if someone wants to provide constructive feedback they can do so.
    4. There has also been information provided on how to disable automatic updates
    5. and with that information is also available on how to roll back to the previous version. (both unsupported by HP).

    I understand greatly that people have their patches and all their unofficial software on the device that may break, but to put it bluntly (because the point doesn't seem to get across any other way) that's not HP's problem. We test our software thoroughly when we release an update, however we will not test our software to ensure it works with preware and the latest patches that people use.

    Bugs happen, so I can sympathize with someone if they download an update and a bug appears that causes them such great grief that it causes this much distress. Every version of every O.S. that has ever been released for any product has had bugs and things that stopped working after an update, that's technology and that's life.
    Ex HP webOS Tech Support

    5Ts: Five ways to get your webOS tablet working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/5Ts

    6Ts: Six ways to get your webOS phone working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/6Ts
  7. lar3ry's Avatar
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    Sadly (for you), I have not been fired or severely chastised.

    The point of this thread has pretty much gone off course.

    1. The system is behaving correctly and is working as intended.
    But it isn't, and those who wanted to await reports of early adopters were sideswiped by the update policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    2. Nothing has changed that is special for TouchPads so this is nothing "new."
    3. I have provided a place where if someone wants to provide constructive feedback they can do so.
    4. There has also been information provided on how to disable automatic updates
    5. and with that information is also available on how to roll back to the previous version. (both unsupported by HP).
    I have followed the information on disabling the automatic updates, but of course I have to trust that it will work the next time you want to zap my machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    I understand greatly that people have their patches and all their unofficial software on the device that may break, but to put it bluntly (because the point doesn't seem to get across any other way) that's not HP's problem. We test our software thoroughly when we release an update, however we will not test our software to ensure it works with preware and the latest patches that people use.
    You keep on about patches, but that is not my concern. My concern is that I have no choice in the matter. I bought my Touchpad for a specific purpose, and I do not wish to have it suddenly lose several days worth of data just because you can't figure out that I might prefer to use MY Touchpad in some manner that you haveen't forseen in your rush to force an update on me. I want the ability to say NO, or NO, NOT NOW, and then, perhaps, say YES, NOW I'M READY, or to stick with the older OS.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    Bugs happen, so I can sympathize with someone if they download an update and a bug appears that causes them such great grief that it causes this much distress. Every version of every O.S. that has ever been released for any product has had bugs and things that stopped working after an update, that's technology and that's life.
    Yes, that's life, but the companies that do it right, allow their users the choice of wating until they are ready to update. Additionally, they stop supporting older OS versions, so that excuse just doesn't cut it. I like webOS a lot, but this whole forced update thing just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    Sadly (for you), I have not been fired or severely chastised.

    The point of this thread has pretty much gone off course.

    1. The system is behaving correctly and is working as intended.
    Perhaps this would be a good opportunity to define what the intended behavior is so that you can prove to us that it's working correctly. What, EXACTLY, is the intended behavior of the "Install Later" option? Then we can all state objectively whether it worked correctly or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    4. There has also been information provided on how to disable automatic updates
    OK lets talk through that statement. Say I'm just an average, non-technical user that wakes up one morning and grabs my Touchpad to read the USA Today app while drinking my morning coffee. I turn on my Touchpad and see the "update available" message. I don't want to update now because I just want to use the device while I'm drinking my coffee. Also I'm not entirely clear if I should back up all my files before running the update, and whether all of my apps (which I've installed through the HP App Catalog) will continue to work after the update. So, I'd prefer to not install the update at all, until I've had a chance to make sure that my data is backed up and ensure that all of my apps will work after the update. I want the update prompt to "go away" and I'll deal with it when I have more free time, which could be days or weeks into the future.

    I think the above scenario accurately and fairly describes the average user scenario that HP would be targetting for the majority of their audience.

    So...are you implying that there's an easily-discoverable and predictable way for me, in the scenario above, to skip the update and ensure that I DON'T get the update until I've had a chance to backup my data and ensure that all of my apps work, which could potentially be several weeks into the future?

    I think a large part of the reason that people are reacting harshly to you is that you seem to be taking the approach that HP was right and everyone else was wrong, that the user experience of the update was just fine, and that there's nothing that HP could have done differently to improve the clarity around what would happen when the "Install Later" option is selected.
  9. #89  
    HardBeatZ

    I fully understand that bugs/flaws happen with updates

    What about all these owners that DO NOT have any patches or Preware on their touchpads.
    Should our UN-moddified fully HP supported webOS 3.0.4 TPs not work correctly?

    Is it acknowledged by HP that this update did break several things, or are they all working as you say.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by cyber16 View Post
    HardBeatZ

    I fully understand that bugs/flaws happen with updates

    What about all these owners that DO NOT have any patches or Preware on their touchpads.
    Should our UN-moddified fully HP supported webOS 3.0.4 TPs not work correctly?

    Is it acknowledged by HP that this update did break several things, or are they all working as you say.
    I am not acknowledging the existence of anything being broken. Personally I have been using the latest build and have not experienced any issues. I was merely stating that I do recognize that things can (and do) break as with any software that is updated.

    Users who do recognize bugs or problems are welcome to provide that information to HP through our official support channels.

    For instance below is the support page for the HP TouchPad
    Palm Support : TouchPad (Wi-Fi) -
    Ex HP webOS Tech Support

    5Ts: Five ways to get your webOS tablet working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/5Ts

    6Ts: Six ways to get your webOS phone working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/6Ts
  11. #91  
    Thank you, we have TWO stock HP TPs that indeed after the update broke the accelerometer and made the games non playable.

    Therefore you are saying the accelerometer or what-ever its called is working in all games for you purchased from the supported HP app catalog?
    These would be the games that WORKED fine under WebOS 3.0.2

    To be clear, you have NO issues running the SAME webOS UPDATE that was pushed out to the public that we all have, not a modified version

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    I am not acknowledging the existence of anything being broken. Personally I have been using the latest build and have not experienced any issues. I was merely stating that I do recognize that things can (and do) break as with any software that is updated.

    Users who do recognize bugs or problems are welcome to provide that information to HP through our official support channels.

    For instance below is the support page for the HP TouchPad
    Palm Support : TouchPad (Wi-Fi) -
    Last edited by cyber16; 10/25/2011 at 10:46 AM. Reason: To be clear
  12. lar3ry's Avatar
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    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    I am not acknowledging the existence of anything being broken. Personally I have been using the latest build and have not experienced any issues. I was merely stating that I do recognize that things can (and do) break as with any software that is updated.
    And yet, you advocate forcing updates without fully informing the users that their wishes, expressed as a selection of "update later", are going to be ignored, and when the update breaks something a user is depending on, your reaction is to tell her to put up with it because that's the way you do things. Unbelievable!
  13. #93  
    @DeadVim You're kidding right???

    Msft has been doing this with windows for years and continue to do so.. This is how it works. No choice. It will reboot after the update.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...0l0l0l0l0ll0l0

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    @DeadVim You're kidding right???

    Msft has been doing this with windows for years and continue to do so.. This is how it works. No choice. It will reboot after the update.

    windows 7 restart update - Google Search

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    No choice? Windows Update gives you the choice of when to install updates, and whether to have Windows Update install updates at all (you can turn it off). This is how it works. Msft has been doing this for years and continue to do so.

    Yes, it is true that if you choose to install updates via Windows Update, some updates may require a restart. Same with Apple updates. And Adobe updates. Etc. But the key is - you can choose when to install the updates and if you even want to install updates in the first place. That's where the breakdown is occuring in webOS.
  15. #95  
    I just find it very disappointing that many owners have reported the issues to HP via official support channels, and HP has yet to even confirm/acknowledge one issue with this forced update.
    I now kind of feel like a fool purchasing applications & games thinking they would continue to work as they did under 3.0.2. while supporting the WebOS platform, should have bootlegged them after all.
    Maybe its the case that HP decided to sell all the corporate owned TPs to fill back-orders and the devs no longer have one in the lab to verify the broken accelerometer along with the other reported issues?

    The scary part, who will fix the problems when they are not even acknowledged?

    How many reports via official support channels of these issues is needed for someone at HP to acknowledge problems MAY actually be there?

    Here i was thinking that someone or devs at HP/WebOS were working on a updated fix once the problems started to be reported, just me being a fool again...

    And YES, you can shut MS update off OR even block certain updates from being offered again.
  16. #96  
    The updates that require reboot is what we are focusing on.. If you tap on reboot later.. It will reboot anyway after about 30 minutes if you don't click reboot later again..

    This is no diff. From webOS system updates.

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  17. #97  
    ?
    the point is MS will ONLY update & re-boot IF YOU say you want the update in the FIRST place. It is not forced upon you to take....
    The REBOOT or time limit is not the issue here
  18. #98  
    Unfortunately, there have been multiple instances where Palm QA has failed to catch some fairly basic things e.g. the /etc/fstab bug in 1.4.5 OTA. To put it bluntly, Palm QA could use a lot of improvement.

    Another is the somewhat famous GPS in the Southern Hemisphere does not work bug that was FINALLY fixed in 3.0.4, years after it was first reported.

    OTOH, Palm did not have sufficient resources to provide adequate coverage so I'm not surprised.

    -----------------------

    Now on to something more positive,

    Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) should do the ##LOGS# thing as well as reinstall EOM as these tend to get overridden during OTA updates.
    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/warthogkernel

    Experimental warthog kernels for webOS devices. Patches such as Muffle System Logging, Max Blocker etc.

    Donations go towards further experimentation.
  19. #99  
    BTW the one version thing is not even remotely true as of today

    Pre/Pre+/Pixi - 1.4.5
    Pre2 - 2.1.0 (some 2.0.0)
    Veer - 2.1.2
    Pre3 - 2.2.0 or 2.2.3
    TouchPad 3.0.4

    Now the Pre+Pixi is one kernel version, Veer is another, Pre3 is another and TouchPad is yet another.

    So when I release warthog kernels, I have at least 4 kernel versions to deal with.

    Not *****ing, this is just the reality.
    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/warthogkernel

    Experimental warthog kernels for webOS devices. Patches such as Muffle System Logging, Max Blocker etc.

    Donations go towards further experimentation.
  20. #100  
    personally I have been using 3.0.4 for about a week and it is lighting fast even at stock speed. I didnt realize how slow my touchpad was before. Not sure why you wouldnt want to update
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