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  1. lar3ry's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    So let's take a step back as just being someone who doesn't want to install the update and look at it like this. Why wouldn't we want you to update it? If we put the default as later, we are basically telling you as a consumer we don't really want you to install this update so just you know if you want do it.
    There is no need for a default to 'Later'. I do think there is a need for a choice, but I also think that once you have made that choice, you should not be blindsided by having the choice negated while you sleep, just because you weren't present when the choice was presented. How hard is it, really, to present the choice and to WAIT until the choice is made by the user, and then do the same thing a few days later, perhaps even urging the user to update?

    To default is to remove the choice altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    As a developer for pretty much any application or software if I put out an update for something I want my users to be on it. The latest and greatest might not be the greatest for YOU individually, but for the masses it is great.
    But if it's not great for me, even if temporarily, should it not be my choice to delay until it is great for me, or, for that matter, to take my chances with the old version? Provide a disclaimer if you feel it necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    In other words the default will never change to "later", we want you on the latest version (thus you can't find (legally) older versions of webOS).

    As a side note we have met all legal requirements in regards to updates and providing options just fyi.
    I don't see legality as being relevant to this discussion.

    While I, personally, appreciate the update, and have installed it with only a small number of problems, I would have been rather upset if an app I depended on stopped working, and I was not given the opportunity to browse the forums for a few days to check for possible problems.
    robbiezr1 likes this.
  2. lar3ry's Avatar
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    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stamponephoto View Post
    And you all are complaining about what? The fact that this new update does not play all the nice with the hacks and modifications that you decided to install on your own tablet?!?!?
    I obviously can't speak for 'all', but I am complaining about the lack of a real choice. If I had written predatory and sneaky updates during my career, I would have expected to catch a lot of flak, if not outright job termination.

    --
    "It's hard to make things easy."
    - Ted Nelson, Dream machines
  3. #63  
    OK

    Let's break down this whole "choice" thing:

    1) Take it like a man; press Install now.

    Consequences - if the update fails and your data is lost - your SOL and HP has no liability.

    2) Take the time to press "Install Later"

    No warning will appear to tell you that if you do not press this again the installer will assume you want the update to be applied. See above.

    3) Take no action.

    See above.

    4) Take the time to press "Install Later" and wait by your device to press it again and again and again and again - never stopping. Don't worry about work and food and bathing... those are not as important as pressing this button.

    Consequences - You'll be a social outcast and your marriage/family life/etc may degrade. Ultimately the install will be applied when you finally fall asleep and forgot to press the button.

    5) Install Android in dual boot mode. Boot over to it until the 3.0.4 update is at least a few days / weeks old and you're sure your data won't be whacked.

    Consequences - You'll be craving webOS so much by the end of this time you'll be paying people to play with their Stock Pre Minuses... .

    As a long time IT guy I can tell you that any vendor that sent us a package that required that we continue to answer negative to an upgrade and assumed that no response was the same as a yes would be facing the very real possibility of being kicked out. There are upgrades like this that we force on our users - these are security patches and things of that nature - but even then we do not do so without warning the user at the time that they FIRST answer the prompt - what the outcome will be. For example, "install later" might say, if you choose this option the upgrade will be postponed for 30 mins and then you will be prompted again. At that time if you do not respond within 30 mins the install will proceed. There is no option to completely stop this upgrade - have a nice day..."

    Honestly... is that so hard? Better yet - another prompt after the first one that asked how soon you want to be reminded to install this update would be better - 30 mins, 1 hour, 2 hours... 1 day... never.



    6)There is no number 6!
    DeadVim and lar3ry like this.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stamponephoto View Post
    This has got to be the most ridiculous thread on this site! I mean come on, most of you picked up an amazing piece of technology at a rock bottom price. And then, after the company has already killed the line, they decide to listen to the customer feedback and release an updated version of the software for everyone. (something that they did not have to do) And you all are complaining about what? The fact that this new update does not play all the nice with the hacks and modifications that you decided to install on your own tablet?!?!? Those are the risks you take. You decided to deviate from the norm you have to expect some hiccups every so often. So you have to go a week or so without performance enhancing tweaks that YOU DIDN'T EVEN PAY FOR, So what? Internalz has already stated that this is not a big update and that most of the homebrew tweaks and patches should be updated in a relatively short period of time; that is the ones that are still necessary after the update. You should just be happy that you have a company that is (for now at least) keeping there word about supporting WebOS and a homebrew community that is willing to keep developing for this platform as well.

    So just keep your pants on, and stop whining (it's embarrassing)
    Would you say this if your data were wiped out? What if the update contained a bug and HP released it only to find the bug two days later and in the meantime many many TP's had data damaged or trojans installed or any number of ugly things?

    Early adoption is a choice not a requirement - particularly for patches.

    iOS 5 is a prime example. This was not alpha code - it was not beta - and yet due to problems in the installer some people got hosed. Waiting a week before going forward with a new update isn't stupid - it's prudent. Some people have lower risk tolerance and wish to do so. That should not be a difficult thing.
    lar3ry likes this.
  5. #65  
    So now we are playing the what if game? Bottom line there are no trojans hidden in the Official HP realease . This is a major software company, where is this paranoia coming from. I'm sure that they tested this software thoroughly before releasing it. Where are you coming up whith this claim of having your data wiped out? I have not heard this happen to anyone at all. Also, how do you figure that HP has no liability? If you have a stock TP and HP bricks it with an OTA you better believe they are gonna be liable. Now on the other hand if there is a conflict with preware functions than, as I mentioned earlier, that is your own fault, and you should be willing to doctor your device and try again.
    I understand that you have your own reasons for not wanting to install the update, but if you have a stock TP, which is all that HP is (and should be) concerned about, there is no danger in updating.

    PS: You forgot option #6

    6) Since you have a tricked out device, check the forums for advice upon hearing about the OTA. Then uninstall all of your fancy unsupported software, run the update and wait for more info. That is what I did, and My TP is running great, and will be running even better in a few more days hopefully. Plus I don't sound like a kid whining because he doesn't like the free candy that he just got.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stamponephoto View Post
    So now we are playing the what if game? Bottom line there are no trojans hidden in the Official HP realease . This is a major software company, where is this paranoia coming from.

    ...


    PS: You forgot option #6
    No I didn't. It's in white text...

    I can personally attest to installing Compaq (now HP) software on a server and having every single byte of data wiped out by a badly written UI. The control software said, "This could be data destructive do you wish to abort" and I did, it didn't and I had witnesses. No the company did not get compensated. 70 GB (which sounds trivial until you know that this was in the mid 90's) was wiped out in one second and deemed unrecoverable.

    Patches can and do go wrong - no company can know ever single circumstance. Official patches have been released with Trojans - SONY anyone?

    The point is NO CHOICE is only reserved for absolute need. The way this is written is like a virus - you as the end user have no chance to avoid it.
    DeadVim and lar3ry like this.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pjstevko View Post
    +1

    I was gonna wait a week or two to update to ensure homebrew has time to push out the patch updates but like a lot of others I was force fed the update.

    What are the steps I should follow now to ensure my TP continues to work properly?

    I had my TP overclocked to 1.5 is there anyway to get that working again or am I stuck with setting that came with the update?

    Thanks
    how do we overclock after the updated?
  8. #68  
    i have to weigh in here... i'm unhappy.

    i just got the touchpad on a whim in the firesale and honestly i was very impressed with webOS. i was so impressed i actually priced various other webOS hardware. anyway, i was looking forward to seeing this update mature a bit, see the various patches i'd installed updated and running the update and updating my patches when things settled.

    all i did was place my touchpad on the charger and walk away. the next thing i know, i have an updated touchpad... no warthog kernel, no overclock, no UI tweaks i went through the trouble to make in the editor... back to square one.

    this is on par with a microsoft move. seriously. it just decided on its own that i wanted the update??

    in all honesty, i'm just not interested in webOS enough to go back and fix this. i'm just going to give up on it until cyanogenmod is mature and then i'm moving over to android.

    this is such a serious oversight on their part that i just can't forgive it.

    ----------------------
    i posted this in the sticky 3.0.4 update thread but thought it was worth putting out here as well. seriously - this was so stupid i decided to give up completely on webOS and wait for android. i put enough effort into tweaking this thing only to see it clean-slate itself. suicidal firmware isn't very attractive.
    DeadVim and lar3ry like this.
  9. DeadVim's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by phillipwhitt View Post
    i have to weigh in here... i'm unhappy.

    i just got the touchpad on a whim in the firesale and honestly i was very impressed with webOS. i was so impressed i actually priced various other webOS hardware. anyway, i was looking forward to seeing this update mature a bit, see the various patches i'd installed updated and running the update and updating my patches when things settled.

    all i did was place my touchpad on the charger and walk away. the next thing i know, i have an updated touchpad... no warthog kernel, no overclock, no UI tweaks i went through the trouble to make in the editor... back to square one.

    this is on par with a microsoft move. seriously. it just decided on its own that i wanted the update??

    in all honesty, i'm just not interested in webOS enough to go back and fix this. i'm just going to give up on it until cyanogenmod is mature and then i'm moving over to android.

    this is such a serious oversight on their part that i just can't forgive it.

    ----------------------
    i posted this in the sticky 3.0.4 update thread but thought it was worth putting out here as well. seriously - this was so stupid i decided to give up completely on webOS and wait for android. i put enough effort into tweaking this thing only to see it clean-slate itself. suicidal firmware isn't very attractive.
    I feel yer pain mate ... Couple this with the disparity between the Aussie App Catalog and the US and I am glad there are alternatives.

    It smacks of arrogance and shows a contempt for the user.
    lar3ry likes this.
  10. #70  
    lol @ fancy hacks. Thank you homebrew for all you do. Touchpad runs good because of their hard work. So uh, yah, when you lose your customizations it sucks. I wanted to wait. But eh...I took my force feeding of ****, now I await the best patch of all .....REMOVE tap ripple!!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
    Dark Helmet: So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.''`-Space Balls

    What doesn't kill you now, is probably a cyborg sent from the future to protect you.

  11. #71  
    i freaked out too after it updated on its own (when I told it not to); plugged it in to charge, few hours later, turn on the tp, and bam, update was installed. Oh well. only had 2 patches and some jsjsjs $edits$ $to$ $get$ $it$ $sort$ $alphabetically$ $for$ $the$ $photo$/$video$ $app$. $it$ $seems$ $pretty$ $fast$ $stock$.
  12. #72  
    Like many, I have a case for the TouchPad and when I'm carrying it around, it is wrapped up in its case. It's very common to carry it back to the charger in that state. Displaying a "I'm going to upgrade unless you stop me" style function was never seen with the case closed and I too got stung. I'm quite displeased about it as I was holding off to research the implications of the upgrade before going forward. The designed logics of the upgrade function carrying forth like this is very bad behavior.

    In direct contrast to an earlier posting, me plugging in the TP with the case on it is not me giving an affirmation for an unrelated task. When I fill up my car with gas, it is not an affirmation for the automobile manufacturer to paint my car. I purchased this TouchPad and I'm the owner of it. I would like to be have it perform something as instrusive as an OS upgrade only after I have affirmatively told it to do so.

    Software that performs uncommanded (and as far as I can tell, something that was not broadly communicated beforehand) tasks similar to this are typically in the realm of viruses and malware. I ask that HP discontinue this practice for future products.

    If I had built a decision process like this in a system at work, I'd be fired.

    For those that desire to look at this as a customer preference instead of a right or wrong, I'm on board with that. Please accept my resounding "no" vote on my preference for this type of behavior in my TouchPad.
    vella_, lar3ry, sanjuro and 1 others like this.
  13. 1969bob's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by fsx100 View Post
    My TP also updated itself overnight, even though I specifically told it not to install when the download first completed.

    D*mn you, HP.

    Its my TP, and you have to give me the CHOICE of how/when I want to update the OS on it.

    Now all my Preware patches etc, dont work.
    I have update to 3.04 run great but what happen to my overclock 1.5 it runs at

    1.188 what is this! ?
  14. #74  
    it surely seems as though its down to the charger!
    I put mine on charge last night and it installed the update too!!! I do have the bypass screen lock patch on, and a case but somehow think its because of the charging. I had played with some files, so now my TP is a mess!! Hahah.
    doctor, here I come!!!
  15. #75  
    My POS auto-updated too.

    Is it possible to roll back to 3.0.2?
  16. #76  
    it surely seems as though its down to the charger!
    I put mine on charge last night and it installed the update too!!! I do have the bypass screen lock patch on, and a case but somehow think its because of the charging. I had played with some files, so now my TP is a mess!! Hahah.
    doctor, here I come!!!
  17. a_gt's Avatar
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    #77  
    And so, after meticulously pressing "Install Later" only to wake up to an update message for 3.0.4, I now realize I am not alone or crazy in thinking it happened automatically. UberKernel is up, patches are on their way, but one pressing issue remains: this stupid tap ripple. Please, oh WebOS gods, remove this annoying blip soon! I can't stand it much longer.
  18. DeadVim's Avatar
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    #78  
    Somehow I have missed an 'Install Later' (one of several dozen) and my TP is rebooting with the update right now.

    So, I can kiss goodbye to stability for a while.

    I hope whoever designed this update procedure was the first out the door when HP sacked it's webOS staff. And I hope they are still looking for work and have a massive mortgage to service.

    Even Microsoft don't pull this **** on you any more ... <rant off>
  19. lar3ry's Avatar
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    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadVim View Post
    Somehow I have missed an 'Install Later' (one of several dozen) and my TP is rebooting with the update right now.

    So, I can kiss goodbye to stability for a while.

    I hope whoever designed this update procedure was the first out the door when HP sacked it's webOS staff. And I hope they are still looking for work and have a massive mortgage to service.

    Even Microsoft don't pull this **** on you any more ... <rant off>
    Hear hear! While I don't really wish him or her uneployment and a massive debt, I do sincerely hope whoever did it (and whoever defends it <you know who you are>) has been either fired or severely chastised.
  20. #80  
    The worst part of the auto update are at least 3 confirmed bugs, that in and of themselves are unacceptable, let alone all 3 together. (speaker issue, autocorrect malfunction and accelerometer).

    What concerns me the most is I have been using webOS since 2009 and this is the most problematic update I have experience by far and we all know HP is laying off personnel that would hopefully code correctly or debug before pushing it out to everyone. Hopefully, the next update fixes these issues and doesn't introduce any new ones!
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
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