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  1. cujoq37's Avatar
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    #41  
    Months from now, after the dust settles from this MS/HP agreement, I wouldn't be at all shocked to hear that it included a bonu$ agreement for HP to essentially bury further webOS development and NOT sell-off the OS, let alone license it. We'll certainly see peculiar and familiar bits & pieces of Palm DNA in HP's new MS W8 tablet hardware.

    *sigh* Sad, sad, depressed and orphaned panda.....

    Of course I hope I'm wrong and webOS is sold outright to a stable and strong hardware developer with the know-how, strength and vision to finish a marathon.
    Last edited by cujoq37; 10/17/2011 at 09:38 PM.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    It never was a marathon and I suspect they knew that all along. In this market, you have to make an immediate impact or else there's no reason for your product to exist and you quickly get squeezed out.

    I actually think HP tried pretty damn hard to sell webOS. The Veer was an unthinkably stupid product but at least it was different and stood out. They bought an insane amount of air time to promote the TouchPad and signed up the second best boxer in the world, Katy Perry's husband, and the effervescent Rachel Barry to promote it. They put demo units in every retailer that stocked the TouchPad. The "it's just a soft launch and we're actually targeting the enterprise, honest!" rhetoric only came after the TouchPad bombed at retail.
    Yes, they tried really hard for a short time to sell webOS. They however did a terrible job in managing launches, announcement, and hardware. On top of that they didn't seem to put the effort into fixing inefficiencies that it took a few weeks of time for webOS internals to fix.

    They made a half-hearted attempt to train for the marathon, then tried to sprint to the end but petered out right way, and then threw in the towel and then tried to cut off it's own legs to never have to think about running again (that whole PSG spin off announcement BS).


    The Android manufactures need to make a huge splash, HP didn't. They had the same advantage as Apple in having control of the entire base structure of their "ecosystem" and they just didn't put the work into that it needed and didn't have the patents it needed to go. If they were still going now would they be gaining ground? Probably not if that's the only thing that had happened differently. But if they had actually managed the whole thing decently then they could be gaining ground right now heading into the holiday season.

    They messed up the whole thing. There wasn't anything wrong with webOS that could have been fixed over the past year and it had plenty of potental. HP just did a terrible job managing the whole thing and then just decided to toss in the towel instead of making an attempt to fix the actual problem, themselves.
    mysterfix and crazybirdman like this.
  3. #43  
    Aren't there rumors that the TouchPad hardware was originally intended for a non WebOS tablet that HP was working on and then they shifted over to WebOS?

    Didn't they somewhat revise the plan for a "gesture area" at some point which lends credence to this theory.

    My point being that they probably should have and could have designed and buillt a sexy device on solid hardware. I am totally happy with my TP but from a pure hardware standpoint the ipad 2 blows it away, and for that matter so does the ipad 1. IMO software is another issue and ther is no comparison as ios pales in comparison. However, it is so tightly integrated and works so well that the masses likely prefer this than having to check out precentral and use homebrew to make relatively easy tweaks to make it right but fix it nonethless. ( I loved the sound patch that I was able to install over wifi in an airport so I could hear my movie on an airplane, but realistically the fact I had to resort to a 3rd party patch to fix this is IMO unacceptable).

    Somewhat off topic, but the Pre3 that we all know was never released in the USA is a solid device. I laugh that the isheep are now touting there icloud system and subtle notifications as revolutionary yet we all know this existed 2 and a half years ago when the original pre launched (on lousy hardware no less, but another story).

    A different economy, different CEO, and different launch order or just earlier launch and there is a very good chance VZW and ATT are selling Pre 3's and all the reatailers are still selling TP's. And yes all the die hard Sprint customers could have been next in line.

    Hopefully, my TP and Pre3 last 18-24 months until somebody comes along to fill the void--not much I can do either way. The good news is HP has to keep the servers up for at least a year if not longer because they are still selling warrantied devices, as are carriers.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Aren't there rumors that the TouchPad hardware was originally intended for a non WebOS tablet that HP was working on and then they shifted over to WebOS?...
    I highly doubt that. One look at the TouchPad and you can tell that it has Palm written all over it. Plastic back, cracks by the speakers; it's like the plastic Pre minus all over again.

    Also, just take a look at the HP Slate 500 and you'll see the difference between HP's hardware design and Palms.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    I highly doubt that. One look at the TouchPad and you can tell that it has Palm written all over it. Plastic back, cracks by the speakers; it's like the plastic Pre minus all over again.

    Also, just take a look at the HP Slate 500 and you'll see the difference between HP's hardware design and Palms.
    So are you suggesting that the design is some 18 months old, or rather that they let Palm hardware designers work in a vacuum and actaully design poor hardware. You might be right, but how does a company like HP allow for such vastly different quality on two of their branded products?

    I think for many years Palm was underfunded which translated to poor hardware but I can't believe with HP's backing they knowingly built inferior quality products--certainly possible but I can't believe it.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    So are you suggesting that the design is some 18 months old, or rather that they let Palm hardware designers work in a vacuum and actaully design poor hardware. You might be right, but how does a company like HP allow for such vastly different quality on two of their branded products?

    I think for many years Palm was underfunded which translated to poor hardware but I can't believe with HP's backing they knowingly built inferior quality products--certainly possible but I can't believe it.
    Technically, I guess you can say the design is 18 months (since they pretty much copied the 1st gen iPad, lol.) But I was suggesting that they just let Palm's hardware engineers work on the TouchPad.

    HP pretty much let Palm do their own thing in. If you look at the lineup of devices it's kind of obvious. The Veer & Pre 3 are just variations of the Pre. Hardware wise, the TouchPad looks more like a Palm product than HP. None of HP's previous windows tablets were made of plastic. So that's mostly why I think it was all Palm, HP just pretty much gave them the cash to make what they probably already planned on making prior to the acquisition.
    StuckwVerizon likes this.
  7. #47  
    I am loving my Windows 8 VM. Just wish I had a touchscreen to really benefit.
    I can see this being a real game changer on the right hardware.
    StuckwVerizon likes this.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    I highly doubt that. One look at the TouchPad and you can tell that it has Palm written all over it. Plastic back, cracks by the speakers; it's like the plastic Pre minus all over again.

    Also, just take a look at the HP Slate 500 and you'll see the difference between HP's hardware design and Palms.
    I don't know abbout that comparison. It's been previously reported that HP had the Touchpad HW already designed when they bought Palm. They forced the webOS team to run it on the previously designed HP hardware which was just about on the verge of becoming legacy at that time.

    Enter the Touchpad Go. Now theres a design that's clearly Palm, not HP. Look at the back and the insides.

    I'm just sayin .... and speculating here ....
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and donít necessarily represent AT&Tís positions, strategies or opinions.
    bluenote likes this.
  9. #49  
    For me is hard to believe MS had anything to do with webOS. And yes, I also believe HP indeed tried hard to sell webOS devices, and return was to low for invested amount of money. Of course, there is no one to blame for that except HP. They learned hard way about market demand, trends and current state of webOS just when they unsuccessfully launched 3 devices. Obviously they didn't know what they are buying and it looks like Jon Rubinstein was far much better salesman than engineer.
    bluenote likes this.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh View Post
    Will we still be bugged by Windows' slow boot times again on our tablets?
    Granted. Ever boot a webOS device?

    I think you missed my point: M$ > Apple
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    My sense from those HP employees at the trade show end of last June was just that they knew and liked Microsoft. HP has many employees who probably have been fed for some years off sales of PCs running MSFT software. webOS was an upstart, a little fledgling that needed to be supported in order to gain share and HP gave up too soon.
    You forgot to add they also sell the HP Mini with Ubuntu.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Willard View Post
    Granted. Ever boot a webOS device?

    I think you missed my point: M$ > Apple
    Ever booted an Android Honeycomb-device? You would be surprised, but my HP TP boots faster than my Motorola Xoom with Android.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    I hear the best thing to do when running a marathon is quit and go home after a mile because it's really really hard.
    Tell that to the 100 year old that completed a marathon in Toronto last weekend. They were taking down the banners and finish line as he approached the finish line and was 6 hours behind the winner, but he finished and broke ~11 world records.
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2Ę about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  14.    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    So are you suggesting that the design is some 18 months old, or rather that they let Palm hardware designers work in a vacuum and actaully design poor hardware. You might be right, but how does a company like HP allow for such vastly different quality on two of their branded products?

    I think for many years Palm was underfunded which translated to poor hardware but I can't believe with HP's backing they knowingly built inferior quality products--certainly possible but I can't believe it.
    because Hurd wanted a cheap product and the specs were already built and he did not think it would be delayed a year after acquisition to reboot Enyo and 3.0 and also fracture the phone user universe, he probably thought it would come out Oct- Dec 2010 of maybe next feb, that decision to delay happened fall 2010 after acquisition and caught Rahul Sahud and others by surprise if memory serves me correctly, am I right?

    Because Leo then came in and wanted to sell off PSG do he did not even pay attention to palm until spring 2011 when he could not sell psg--he even thought in Feb that devices were coming in march, maybe that was closer to the old schedule. And ruby had to deliver by the one year date to show he would comply with the ROI expectations and he could not stop the train of mgt financial forecasts by saying the full software fixes were a month past that, they deluded themselves the soft launch would fix that and the product was so great. Meanwhile DeWitt or who ever was in charge of pricing and market could not speak up and tell the truth that price launch was too high and specs outclassed in march by new ipad2,( the experienced and nimble Samsung could tell immediately). Dewitt had to wait until the first week of launch and until he assumed reins mid July and then he cut prices already last week of July to try and make up for mistake in original pricing and software and kindle not out to end of July and Quickoffice mid august (HP demo guys at cconference end of June told me Quickoffice was ready).

    This is all speculation but fits the timeline, palm's lack of business management and software issues followed them into the acquisition and HP not smart and experienced enough in mobile, too bureaucratic too, and probably messed up by ceo change, did not supervise and intervene soon enough.
    Last edited by bluenote; 10/18/2011 at 07:38 AM.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    For me is hard to believe MS had anything to do with webOS. And yes, I also believe HP indeed tried hard to sell webOS devices, and return was to low for invested amount of money. Of course, there is no one to blame for that except HP. They learned hard way about market demand, trends and current state of webOS just when they unsuccessfully launched 3 devices. Obviously they didn't know what they are buying and it looks like Jon Rubinstein was far much better salesman than engineer.
    I agree with you about M$oft - doubt they had anything to do with killing of webOS.

    And I agree that JR was and is probably a better salesman than engineer.

    But I really don't think HP tried that hard.

    What were they thinking when they ordered up 1 million units? Did they think just by making that many, that they would sell that many?

    They should have launched with a smaller order, at a lower price, and an idea that they were investing in a user base that they would monetize on a subscription type model.

    For instance, just like Windows and Apple sell new versions of their OS, why couldn't HP have sold webOS 3.1 for $10? or $20?
  16. cgk
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    #56  
    For instance, just like Windows and Apple sell new versions of their OS, why couldn't HP have sold webOS 3.1 for $10? or $20?
    Because they'd be the only people charging for their OS in the mobile space?
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by frank-barnett View Post
    For instance, just like Windows and Apple sell new versions of their OS, why couldn't HP have sold webOS 3.1 for $10? or $20?
    if you are aiming on licensing, there is one problem - limited feature pack - no video out support, no external storage support, no advanced audio features or sound control and enhancements, really basic document management etc...
    At least, if HP managed to pull advanced user management control (multiple user accounts on single device, or multiple users of mail app with separated logins) this would be one distinctive feature for home and business use absent from all other platforms.
    Basically, you have to give up lots of features present on other platforms to be able to multitask webOS way and to be notified webOS way at questionable level of UX regarding speed.
    I do not see anyone willing to pick OS with all of this problems and invest into hardware and sales. But, I can imagine someone willing to add missing features and improve performance because he can recognize potential in webOS.
  18. #58  
    Ever booted an Android Honeycomb-device?.
    Nope. Can't say I have.

    I think I had Ubuntu 10.04 down to 15ish seconds on my netbook.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I like how you leap in the first paragraph from saying you suspect to demanding action in the second paragraph as if it's a proven fact!
    He said he HOPES it comes to light, then he would DEMAND the FCC take action!
  20. #60  
    if Windows 8 has the winsxs directory on tablet, it sucks. Course I don't know why it would cause the HW never changes. But it does have the ever growing winsxs folder on a PC and therefore it still sucks.
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