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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd_N View Post
    I've been told by a guy who designs lithium ion battery chargers they the batteries don't like to be continuously topped off (dropping to 98% and then recharging to 100%).
    It's not that it kills the battery, but it reduces the total capacity - how low the battery voltage can get and still provide enough current to run the device. So you wouldn't notice in day to day usage, but you might on a long flight.

    In general, it's better to let your battery get really low every once in awhile and get a full refresh cycle.

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    The data would tend to disagree with your assessment. I have more than anecdotal evidence of this. I deal with these types of batteries in bulk and all of the data and manuals state to top of the battery at every opportunity. To store them topped off, and if possible, to leave them on the charger when not in use.

    But anecdotally, I have followed the charge early, charge often schema for years without noticeable damage to any of the dozens of cells I have used.

    BTW, I've been working with rechargeables as an engineer for 30+ years. I experienced NiCads and all of the crap that happened to them. SLAs and NiMhs are better than NiCads but Li-ions are the best they've come up with. no rechargeable will last forever, but I choose to believe my experience and the engineers that design the batteries themselves over any hype I read on the internet.

    Thanks...
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by e-gadget-guy View Post
    I would like to add my vote. Li-ion batteries are not compromised but sitting on the charger because the battery will stop charging once at the full level. sitting on the charger, it will only charge once it goes below a certain level... Since cycles are counted as full cycles there is no significant difference between 2 50% cycles and 1 100% cycle, and 20 5% cycles.

    Anyway, the data favors that it's not harmful to use the charger overnight. Most of the misconceptions are about older type ni-cad or NiMh batteries. ni-cads do have to be deep cycled...

    And, I am a little tired of these rumors being proliferated.

    Here's just one ref...
    How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
    The above is the correct answer! The whole purpose of the chip in "intelligent" batteries that the Pre/TP family uses is that it monitors the health of the battery and manages the charging process to extend the life of the batteries. 99.9% of the information CS people provide is Wrong! The Touchstones are designed for the devices to be on them all night and during the day as needed. Worry about the future of webOS not your batteries ...
    netwrkr9 and e-gadget-guy like this.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd_N View Post
    I've been told by a guy who designs lithium ion battery chargers they the batteries don't like to be continuously topped off (dropping to 98% and then recharging to 100%).
    It's not that it kills the battery, but it reduces the total capacity - how low the battery voltage can get and still provide enough current to run the device. So you wouldn't notice in day to day usage, but you might on a long flight.

    In general, it's better to let your battery get really low every once in awhile and get a full refresh cycle.

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    actually that guy is telling you wrong . these new style batteries will not last as long if you dont keep it topped off for about the first 3 to 4 weeks of real world use . these batteries love to stay fully charged afterwards as well,and i have not had any troubles with them as of yet. this was explained shortly after the pre- was released over 2 years ago. have a great day !
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  4. bs03's Avatar
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    #24  
    Not adding to the engineering data but adding a real life POV.

    Touchstones are on my nightstand. Pre and TP sit there charging and running while I sleep. Then they are ready to be off the stones, in use, all day. If it is too busy of a day, I'll through them back to recharge, but only if necessary.
    Basically, we all recharge overnight so that we can go all day.

    I know someone who's TP sits on the TS all day while they are out, so that they can use it all evening/night.

    My point is that these devices are to improve life. Find what fits your life best.
  5. Semma2's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    Ohhh new exhibition app, 100% charge alarm to awaken you from your slumber so you can take it off the TS... just to have it discharge a lil before you get up.
    It does that anyway. Charge completion is a system event that wakes up the TP, bongs, and turns on the screen. That's why you often find the screen turning itself on after you left it off in the Touchstone.
  6. DizWhiz's Avatar
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    #26  
    I've been turning my TP on Airplane Mode and placing it on the charger all night every night for over a month now. My battery is 100% charged and Dr. Battery says it's still 100% healthy. Go figure.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Semma2 View Post
    Charge completion is a system event that wakes up the TP, bongs, and turns on the screen.
    First time I hear that. Never did on my devices.
    OldSkoolVWLover likes this.
  8. #28  
    Just checked. Dr. Battery says 95% health :/

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums
  9. #29  
    maybe not... maybe the CS is going off tech notes you're not aware of and not their personal opinion.

    one angle to think of it... maybe the CS tech is not talking about lithium ion batteries in general but talking about the touchpad. maybe the issue is with the touchstone and the way it charges it. maybe thru inductive charging that it has a negative effect on the battery over a period of time.

    one way to check is by looking at the pre2 section and see if battery issues are common...

    http://forums.precentral.net/search....rchid=18037912

    just a thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    it's actually good for the battery to top off the charge. The CS person is wrong.
  10. #30  
    There's plenty of physical testing results on the net that show deep discharging L-ion batteries is harmful to them, but none that I'm aware of that show the opposite. Running your TP battery low is bad for it!

    As said above more than once, NiCad batteries are the only batteries that have a memory effect that needs to be cleared by deep discharging.

    As for changing the battery, having seen a tear down of the TP I feel confident I can replace the battery if needs be though I can see why others might not want to.
  11. #31  
    It's not that it kills the battery, but it reduces the total capacity - how low the battery voltage can get and still provide enough current to run the device. So you wouldn't notice in day to day usage, but you might on a long flight.


  12. tayswg20's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by vasekvi View Post
    Just checked. Dr. Battery says 95% health :/

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums
    http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touc...pad-users.html

    Hopefully this thread clears that up. :-)
    Last edited by tayswg20; 10/16/2011 at 03:19 PM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gfong8888 View Post
    I was using the butler service talking to a level 2 tech when she informed me that it was not advisable to leave the TP on the touchstone charger overnight. She said that leaving the system on charge after a full 100% charge, will significantly affect battery life. To make matters worse, you can't change the battery yourself. It has to be sent in for repairs.

    What do you think?
    the tech is wrong. she is basing her advice on old ni-cad battery practices. on those batteries you need to do a full discharge to avoid memory build up. on li-ion batteries the more frequently you charge the battery the better. frequent full discharges on li-ion batteries can be detrimental to battery life because of the stress you put on its cells. just like mechanical components would break down after heavy uses. the more frequent you charge it the better. here is a study that explains this much better.

    How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Semma2 View Post
    It does that anyway. Charge completion is a system event that wakes up the TP, bongs, and turns on the screen. That's why you often find the screen turning itself on after you left it off in the Touchstone.
    never done it for me
  15. #35  
    actually that guy is telling you wrong . these new style batteries will not last as long if you dont keep it topped off for about the first 3 to 4 weeks of real world use . these batteries love to stay fully charged afterwards as well,and i have not had any troubles with them as of yet. this was explained shortly after the pre- was released over 2 years ago. have a great day ! $2
    I double-checked with the guy I work with and I had things slightly out of context. Lithium-Ion batteries don't like to be low, so it's better to keep them charged up. (Yes, the charger will automatically stop when they're full.) The part I missed was that they don't like to be hot. My friend said "As far as Li-ion batteries go, it is never better to leave them at 100%.* The worst case scenario for these things is fully charged and hot.* Hot is always bad for them, but they are particularly sensitive to permanent capacity degradation when fully charged and hot."

    This was also stated in the batteryuniversity link posted earlier. Exposing the battery to high temperature and being at full state-of-charge for an extended time can be more damaging than cycling.

    A phone or a TouchPad is not going to get hot sitting on the touchstone over night. And my friend said that "long periods of time" means days and weeks, not hours. So his advice was for my laptop which gets reasonably warm and sits in the docking station for days sometimes. That was the context in which I got the idea that I shouldn't continuously top off the TP. So let them stay in the cradle all night.

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
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