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  1. kalel33's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by MobileBill23 View Post
    I decided to remove my overclock kernel and go stock. Don't miss the OC at all. I have the system logging patches/tweaks and did the browser cache trick. I don't know why people would say this thing has problems out of the box.
    Because I've used the Ipad and a couple of Android tablets and the Touchpad out of the box was poor in performance. The system logging and removing ripple effect helps out a lot. The Touchpad does have other problems, mostly the poor excuse for a browser. I much prefer Dolphin HD on my Android phone.

    You ask why people would say thing thing has problems out of the box but then you made sure to do the suggested tweaks and patches. If it was fine out of the box then it shouldn't need to be tweeked. HP screwed up and the thing should run like I have it now when I opened up the box. That's probably a big reason why it went on firesale.
  2. 1969bob's Avatar
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    #22  
    I have overclock TP Runing1.5 it's very fast and no problems

    I plan to up it to 1.7

    so A + for TP
  3.    #23  
    So how do my videos play from playon and splashtop? Do they use some sort of independent viewer?
  4. #24  
    overclocked and moderately patched.
  5. #25  
    Out of the box I liked the touchpad but realized it was too slow to use in place of my phone or laptop frequently... But after installing all the patches I was disgusted with HP for sabotaging their own product. Not one person over their thought to not cripple the user experience? I patched and overclocked (for good measure) both mine and my wifes touchpad. Now they run circles around our ipad and phones. Its amazing the difference. Were talking at least TWICE as responsive.
  6. #26  
    much happier with preware installed & 1.5 GHz kernel on my Touchpad!
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by kalel33 View Post
    Because I've used the Ipad and a couple of Android tablets and the Touchpad out of the box was poor in performance. The system logging and removing ripple effect helps out a lot. The Touchpad does have other problems, mostly the poor excuse for a browser. I much prefer Dolphin HD on my Android phone.

    You ask why people would say thing thing has problems out of the box but then you made sure to do the suggested tweaks and patches. If it was fine out of the box then it shouldn't need to be tweeked. HP screwed up and the thing should run like I have it now when I opened up the box. That's probably a big reason why it went on firesale.
    You make the fallacious assumption that it needed to be tweaked. I fool around with the tweaks and patches because our homebrew community has done such a wonderful job making these things easy. Typically, naysayers think that because tweaks are available that they are then needed - but that is not the case at all. If I were to use your logic, I could state as a fact that the crowd trying to port Android is wasting their time since the TouchPad already has an operating system. Yet, I don't feel that way - I hope they succeed. I'll never use Android (shall we go over all the ways in which it is inferior to both iOS and webOS?), but I like seeing the effort to accomplish that feat. That's why I patched.

    Since my last post in this thread, I've removed the logging patches and touch sensitivity thing. I felt like going back to stock, and honestly, I don't miss them. I didn't notice any appreciable decrease in speed or any performance hits. I still stream video beautifully, web browsing is great, stream music while editing docs......in short, life is great with my TouchPad.

    I've got two other TouchPads running stock with no problems or complaints from their users either. So don't tell me that the TouchPad was flawed - I'll take real-world experience over a biased sample anyday.
  8. kalel33's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by MobileBill23 View Post
    You make the fallacious assumption that it needed to be tweaked. I fool around with the tweaks and patches because our homebrew community has done such a wonderful job making these things easy. Typically, naysayers think that because tweaks are available that they are then needed - but that is not the case at all. If I were to use your logic, I could state as a fact that the crowd trying to port Android is wasting their time since the TouchPad already has an operating system. Yet, I don't feel that way - I hope they succeed. I'll never use Android (shall we go over all the ways in which it is inferior to both iOS and webOS?), but I like seeing the effort to accomplish that feat. That's why I patched.

    Since my last post in this thread, I've removed the logging patches and touch sensitivity thing. I felt like going back to stock, and honestly, I don't miss them. I didn't notice any appreciable decrease in speed or any performance hits. I still stream video beautifully, web browsing is great, stream music while editing docs......in short, life is great with my TouchPad.

    I've got two other TouchPads running stock with no problems or complaints from their users either. So don't tell me that the TouchPad was flawed - I'll take real-world experience over a biased sample anyday.
    I don't think anyone "needs" to tweek or patch but if you want a slower device then go right ahead. I just upgraded my phone's OS to CM7 2.3.7 and my phone was a slight bit faster than my Touchpad but now it even makes the tweeked/patched version slow. It's a single core Android phone from last year and it shouldn't be faster, but I do love my Touchpad as a tablet OS. No matter how much I like it it's still slower than other devices and it doesn't have crap for apps but it's a multitasking freak and very easy to use. The OS is still half baked.

    If WebOS had the quality and number teams of developers that are in the Android dev community then I would bet the OS would be patched/tweeked to be up to speed of the other OSs. I've said it before, I like WebOS better for a tablet, even though it's a slower OS, and I would never have it on a phone, Android is much better.

    On your real world experience: If you let someone drive a Mustang for awhile they'd love it and have no issues, but if you then showed them what a porche was like and they tried it they'd say they'd go for the porche because of performance. Luckily, like the Touchpad, the Mustang was much cheaper and you didn't have to justify that a Mustang's performance cost the same price as if you had bought a Porche.

    Also real world: if you're happy with the performance of the Touchpad out of the box then that's fine, I just know how poorly it performs out of the box compared to the competition. Heck my phone is much faster and does a lot more with a single core processor.
    Last edited by kalel33; 10/11/2011 at 09:34 AM.
  9. #29  
    Just drove a (rented) mustang and enjoyed it, my friend liked the look of it so much that he snapped a pic of me beside it.

    That said, thank goodness for preware and webos internals (jason too), I would never do anything without them (and all the good advice of the homebrewers)
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by MobileBill23 View Post
    Since my last post in this thread, I've removed the logging patches and touch sensitivity thing. I felt like going back to stock, and honestly, I don't miss them. I didn't notice any appreciable decrease in speed or any performance hits. I still stream video beautifully, web browsing is great, stream music while editing docs......in short, life is great with my TouchPad.

    I've got two other TouchPads running stock with no problems or complaints from their users either. So don't tell me that the TouchPad was flawed - I'll take real-world experience over a biased sample anyday.
    got a question....when you went back to stock did you dr. the device?, and how did you do the go about dealing w/ the log files?

    reason im asking is, since this has yet to be confirmed(unlessed i missed it) about the actual log patch whether it returns logging to its actual original state due to warning message you get when you set your device to minimal logging and you cant go back(if you were to go into diagnostics under device info).

    cause if you went through preware and removed the patch for logging and ripple effect and not notice a change then maybe it just removes the identifier for the logging patch and not actually restore logging to what it was originally(logging everything) and thus you wouldnt notice a difference and still get the benefit of minimal logging :/
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by retroblu View Post
    got a question....when you went back to stock did you dr. the device?, and how did you do the go about dealing w/ the log files?

    reason im asking is, since this has yet to be confirmed(unlessed i missed it) about the actual log patch whether it returns logging to its actual original state due to warning message you get when you set your device to minimal logging and you cant go back(if you were to go into diagnostics under device info).

    cause if you went through preware and removed the patch for logging and ripple effect and not notice a change then maybe it just removes the identifier for the logging patch and not actually restore logging to what it was originally(logging everything) and thus you wouldnt notice a difference and still get the benefit of minimal logging :/
    No, I haven't doctored. I assumed that removing the patches would restore things to their pre-patched state, so you make a good point. Maybe I'll doctor it to see what happens, I've got this urge to go completely back to stock now, so doctoring is the only way to get there. I'll let you know if I do.
  12. #32  
    yes removing a patch does restore things to a pre-patched state, but w/ the logging patch im not so sure due to the way the system tells you cant go back to if you make changes by doing it manually by going into device info>menu>diagnostics and then changing to minimum logging...a warning pops up...

    but yes please post once you doctor to see if there is a difference...thanx
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by kalel33 View Post
    I don't think anyone "needs" to tweek or patch but if you want a slower device then go right ahead. I just upgraded my phone's OS to CM7 2.3.7 and my phone was a slight bit faster than my Touchpad but now it even makes the tweeked/patched version slow. It's a single core Android phone from last year and it shouldn't be faster, but I do love my Touchpad as a tablet OS. No matter how much I like it it's still slower than other devices and it doesn't have crap for apps but it's a multitasking freak and very easy to use. The OS is still half baked.

    If WebOS had the quality and number teams of developers that are in the Android dev community then I would bet the OS would be patched/tweeked to be up to speed of the other OSs. I've said it before, I like WebOS better for a tablet, even though it's a slower OS, and I would never have it on a phone, Android is much better.

    On your real world experience: If you let someone drive a Mustang for awhile they'd love it and have no issues, but if you then showed them what a porche was like and they tried it they'd say they'd go for the porche because of performance. Luckily, like the Touchpad, the Mustang was much cheaper and you didn't have to justify that a Mustang's performance cost the same price as if you had bought a Porche.

    Also real world: if you're happy with the performance of the Touchpad out of the box then that's fine, I just know how poorly it performs out of the box compared to the competition. Heck my phone is much faster and does a lot more with a single core processor.

    Uh, you said this: "If it was fine out of the box then it shouldn't need to be tweeked."

    Now you say no one needs to tweak, and top it off with completely subjective observation - "how poorly it performs".

    Are you saying that the TouchPad is fine out of the box, hence does not need tweaking as per your earlier statement, or does it perform poorly out of the box thereby requiring tweaking and contradicting your earlier statement? That's quite a corner you've backed yourself into. Would you care to try and square those statements?

    You forget that the people posting here represent approximately 3-5% of the TouchPad users based on available data, and that according to that same data the TouchPad's failure rate is on par with the iPad/2 and is better than most Android devices (if I recall correctly, the Xoom and Galaxy tab are failing at a rate between 5-10%. It would seem that the TouchPad is more akin to the Porsche in regards to construction, and performance is a subjective matter - my experience is that the TouchPad performs well out of the box, so much so that I'm foregoing any tweaks to test it out for myself. By definition it is slower than when it was overclocked, but speed doesn't matter beyond a certain point (to use your analogy, the speed limit is 70mph and either car will get me there nicely). As long as the user experience is good no one is going go notice a couple extra MHz. The user experience is fine out of the box, otherwise we'd be hearing about much more in the way of returns. Furthermore, webOS is a much nicer and easier to use OS (yes, a subjective measurement, but one which has been reported frequently).

    I'll leave you with more real-world experiences - my daughter's TouchPad was running stock and hadn't even been updated to 3.0.0, yet I was streaming flash video smoothly (as per a challenge posted here about a month ago) and the thing ran fine.
  14. kalel33's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by MobileBill23 View Post
    Uh, you said this: "If it was fine out of the box then it shouldn't need to be tweeked."

    Now you say no one needs to tweak, and top it off with completely subjective observation - "how poorly it performs".

    Are you saying that the TouchPad is fine out of the box, hence does not need tweaking as per your earlier statement, or does it perform poorly out of the box thereby requiring tweaking and contradicting your earlier statement? That's quite a corner you've backed yourself into. Would you care to try and square those statements?

    You forget that the people posting here represent approximately 3-5% of the TouchPad users based on available data, and that according to that same data the TouchPad's failure rate is on par with the iPad/2 and is better than most Android devices (if I recall correctly, the Xoom and Galaxy tab are failing at a rate between 5-10%. It would seem that the TouchPad is more akin to the Porsche in regards to construction, and performance is a subjective matter - my experience is that the TouchPad performs well out of the box, so much so that I'm foregoing any tweaks to test it out for myself. By definition it is slower than when it was overclocked, but speed doesn't matter beyond a certain point (to use your analogy, the speed limit is 70mph and either car will get me there nicely). As long as the user experience is good no one is going go notice a couple extra MHz. The user experience is fine out of the box, otherwise we'd be hearing about much more in the way of returns. Furthermore, webOS is a much nicer and easier to use OS (yes, a subjective measurement, but one which has been reported frequently).

    I'll leave you with more real-world experiences - my daughter's TouchPad was running stock and hadn't even been updated to 3.0.0, yet I was streaming flash video smoothly (as per a challenge posted here about a month ago) and the thing ran fine.
    Yes, please pull part of the sentence out the quote and go with it. I'll explain again since reading comprehension isn't everyone's strong suit. You do not need to patch or tweek the Touchpad out of the box. It'll run fine, just much slower than an Android or Ipad tablet. I'm sure you can find an Android tablet that runs slow out of the box but not a name brand one with a dual core processor. The reviews of the Touchpad stated the same thing, it's a great OS but hampered by it being slower than the competition. They even took aim at times when Flash was even slower than the competitors.

    You state that me saying "how poorly it performs" is subjective when it's not. It's a quantitative measure on how fast it boots up, opens apps, scrolls, browser speed, etc. It's not subjective at all. Out of the box it performs poorly when compared to Ipad or comparable Android tablets. If it did perform up to the speed of the others then it wouldn't have had the very mediocre reviews it did.

    Even on Buzz Out Loud podcast from Cnet, they always talked up WebOS and they really thought that the Touchpad was going to be a contender. They stated that until it actually used them, which they changed their tune and they believed that HP messed up their chance to make WebOS a viable contender. They probably wouldn't have been on firesale if they worked great out of the box and the reviews were very positive, compared to the mediocre reviews they received.
  15. #35  
    I have been patching webOS for so long, I forget what it's like without patches.

    Both Touchpads, Veers, and Pre2s have been patched within moments of pulling them out of the box. First thing I do is install Preware on the devices, then internalz and save restore.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by retroblu View Post
    yes removing a patch does restore things to a pre-patched state, but w/ the logging patch im not so sure due to the way the system tells you cant go back to if you make changes by doing it manually by going into device info>menu>diagnostics and then changing to minimum logging...a warning pops up...

    but yes please post once you doctor to see if there is a difference...thanx
    Technically removing patches doesn't always restore things 100% to factory condition. In theory it should, but doesn't always work 100%.

    The only way to insure 100% factory performance and operation is to doctor.

    A good example of this is those of us back in the day that used the patch to enable blink notifications. My Pre was never consistent on the slow vs fast blink as it was written in Palm code, and I had removed the patch prior to upgrading to that version of webOS that enabled the blink notification.... wow that was a long time ago.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  17. #37  
    I think you have to be careful what you load but personally I love preware. Folks who load every patch that comes along are looking for trouble and will find it at some point. But turning off the ripple effect, thumbnav browser controls, probably overclocking to 1.5GHz would be on that list, is good stuff.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by texasflood View Post
    I think you have to be careful what you load but personally I love preware. Folks who load every patch that comes along are looking for trouble and will find it at some point. But turning off the ripple effect, thumbnav browser controls, probably overclocking to 1.5GHz would be on that list, is good stuff.
    Keep in mind overclocking can void your warranty, patching does not.

    As far as loading too much, I have loaded a ton of patches on an Original Sprint Pre, had the phone used daily for almost 2 years, never once doctored that device.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by kalel33 View Post
    Yes, please pull part of the sentence out the quote and go with it. I'll explain again since reading comprehension isn't everyone's strong suit. You do not need to patch or tweek the Touchpad out of the box. It'll run fine, just much slower than an Android or Ipad tablet. I'm sure you can find an Android tablet that runs slow out of the box but not a name brand one with a dual core processor. The reviews of the Touchpad stated the same thing, it's a great OS but hampered by it being slower than the competition. They even took aim at times when Flash was even slower than the competitors.
    Try not to be condescending. My reading comprehension is fine, you simply can't defend your contradictory statements.

    I've used Android (Xoom, Galaxy, Thrive) and the iPad2 (in addition to spending extensive time in stores trying them out, my sister and her husband have an iPad2 and a Xoom). The TouchPad performs on par with either of those - in many cases better, since it doesn't suffer the mechanical/software problems of the Android tabs and is, in an odd way, more versatile than the i-device. Feel free to insist that my experience is wrong, that would be in keeping with your claim that this is not subjective. What you're failing to grasp is that performance is subjective to the average user. It won't matter if the TouchPad is a half a second faster/slower if the speed is fast enough for the average user. No one but a tech geek is going to care about that.

    You state that me saying "how poorly it performs" is subjective when it's not. It's a quantitative measure on how fast it boots up, opens apps, scrolls, browser speed, etc. It's not subjective at all. Out of the box it performs poorly when compared to Ipad or comparable Android tablets. If it did perform up to the speed of the others then it wouldn't have had the very mediocre reviews it did.
    You saying it performs poorly is very much subjective. You are now simply defining what "performs poorly" means to you (hence it is subjective). That you can quantify certain things does not make your overall assessment any less subjective. For example, boot time doesn't matter to me, because I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to reboot it in 3 months.

    Let's go back to your Mustang/Porsche analogy (I really like it, I think it works much better than you intended) - do you really think that the average driver is going to care that the Porsche can go 0-100 faster than the Mustang?

    To finish up on this point, just remember that what you consider important is not necessarily what others consider important.

    Even on Buzz Out Loud podcast from Cnet, they always talked up WebOS and they really thought that the Touchpad was going to be a contender. They stated that until it actually used them, which they changed their tune and they believed that HP messed up their chance to make WebOS a viable contender. They probably wouldn't have been on firesale if they worked great out of the box and the reviews were very positive, compared to the mediocre reviews they received.
    All I can say is that I don't understand the reviews. None of my TouchPads performed anywhere as bad as the reviews. I'm not going to buy any crap about the reviewers having it out for the TouchPad either. I've seen speculation that it was the TouchPad synching to the profile that caused the issues, but I don't believe that either. I think the reviewers got devices that were pre-release and something was gakked up. All I can say is that my experience with my unpatched, stock TouchPad even on 3.0.0 has been wonderful. And that's the point of this thread - so let me say it again, I love my unpatched 1.2GHz TouchPad, my daughter loves hers to the point that she doesn't want an iPad anymore, and my mother loves hers.
  20. #40  
    In my humble opinion kalel wins this debate. Bill is being more contradictory by defending the out of the box TP experience on his TWEAKED touchpad. Not to mention the glaring truth that the TP is much slower (OOTB) than the flagship products with other operating systems like the galaxy tab 10.1 and ipad.
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