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  1. DRFP's Avatar
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       #1  
    If HP Touchpad can't be made and sold for under 300 then how can Amazon make a tablet touchscreen dual core processor and sell it for 199

    They claim that they will sell millions

    sorry I can't accept the Apple concept driven concept that tablets cost X amount to make for everyone..............Amazon can't afford to market a product that would loose them 100's of millions its just Apple not wanting to lose the market.
    Last edited by pogeypre; 09/29/2011 at 09:34 AM.
    I'm not here to criticize the Touchpad but to learn how to make it better.
  2. ggendel's Avatar
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    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by drfp View Post
    If HP Touchpad can't be made and sold for under 300 then how can Amazon make a tablet touchscreen dual core processor and sell it for 199

    They claim that they will sell millions

    sorry I can't accept the Apple concept driven concept that tablets cost X amount to make for everyone..............Amazon can't afford to market a product that would loose them 100's of millions its just Apple not wanting to lose the market.
    Amazon used the Playbook engineers to design the Fire, then they stripped off the camera, put in a slower processor, etc. to decrease the cost.

    The big win for the Fire is the Server-side web-page optimization using Amazon's EC3 cloud service. This is the reason they can get away with normally poor browser performance.

    Compete on price or performance, you can't do both against the buying power of Apple.

    I expect that Amazon will do well in the long run. The first Kindle was lacking, but they refined it over the years to a meet expectations.
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  3. #3  
    The Amazon Fire is only a 7 inch screen, not 10 like the Touchpad. It only has 8 gig of memory, not 16 or 32. It has no microphone. It has no camera. It is very very limited compared to the Touchpad.

    As Bezos said, the Amazon Fire is not a tablet, it's a service. It is a crippled gizmo whose main purpose is to allow you to purchase eBooks, movies, songs, and videos from Amazon.
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  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyrath View Post
    The Amazon Fire is only a 7 inch screen, not 10 like the Touchpad. It only has 8 gig of memory, not 16 or 32. It has no microphone. It has no camera. It is very very limited compared to the Touchpad.

    As Bezos said, the Amazon Fire is not a tablet, it's a service. It is a crippled gizmo whose main purpose is to allow you to purchase eBooks, movies, songs, and videos from Amazon.
    I agree with the above with the exception being that the Fire is not crippled. That's like saying that just because I am not in the NBA dunking on Lebron, that I am crippled.
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyrath View Post
    The Amazon Fire is only a 7 inch screen, not 10 like the Touchpad. It only has 8 gig of memory, not 16 or 32. It has no microphone. It has no camera. It is very very limited compared to the Touchpad.

    As Bezos said, the Amazon Fire is not a tablet, it's a service. It is a crippled gizmo whose main purpose is to allow you to purchase eBooks, movies, songs, and videos from Amazon.
    lol brb p[aying 200 for amazon to sell me overpriced ebooks, movies, songs, and videos.
    HP Touchpad 32gb
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  6. DRFP's Avatar
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       #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyrath View Post
    The Amazon Fire is only a 7 inch screen, not 10 like the Touchpad. It only has 8 gig of memory, not 16 or 32. It has no microphone. It has no camera. It is very very limited compared to the Touchpad.

    As Bezos said, the Amazon Fire is not a tablet, it's a service. It is a crippled gizmo whose main purpose is to allow you to purchase eBooks, movies, songs, and videos from Amazon.
    Quote Originally Posted by ggendel View Post
    Amazon used the Playbook engineers to design the Fire, then they stripped off the camera, put in a slower processor, etc. to decrease the cost.

    The big win for the Fire is the Server-side web-page optimization using Amazon's EC3 cloud service. This is the reason they can get away with normally poor browser performance.

    Compete on price or performance, you can't do both against the buying power of Apple.

    I expect that Amazon will do well in the long run. The first Kindle was lacking, but they refined it over the years to a meet expectations.
    OK
    Dual core seems to me slow is not a major issue speed does not equal performance

    cameras and mics are cheap what do they cost $1.99 a per TP?

    A 16gb microsd retail is around $15 so memory is not expensive

    A redesigned TP could still be awesome and under 300

    I suspect it could be sold at a profit for 225 to 250

    people refuse to think out of the box on this

    So add less than $30 in upgrades (wholesale prices) and you have a tp
    more mem
    camera mic
    larger screen
    I'm not here to criticize the Touchpad but to learn how to make it better.
  7. cgk
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    #7  
    Right - it's not crippled, it's tailored - it's a device that limited or no appeal to people here but will be welcomed with open arms by people who don't know a dual core from a apple core and think that rooting has something to do with the Dentist.

    The vast majority don't want choice, they simply want something that works to do what they want to do - and on the Kindle fire, that's watch movies, listen to music, read books and put a lot of money into Amazon's pockets.

    Amazon can't afford to market a product that would loose them 100's of millions
    Except this isn't - at worst it's being sold at cost and every purchaser is then someone locked into their marketplace. This is the fundamental difference between the two - the touchpad was a device looking for a business model, the Fire is a conduct to a fully-functional business model because amazon already has everything in place. Moreover, it can be used to drive the sale of physical items - something that nobody else can do.
    Last edited by CGK; 09/29/2011 at 09:26 AM.
  8. cgk
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by drfp View Post
    OK
    Dual core seems to me slow is not a major issue speed does not equal performance

    cameras and mics are cheap what do they cost $1.99 a per TP?

    A 16gb microsd retail is around $15 so memory is not expensive

    A redesigned TP could still be awesome and under 300

    I suspect it could be sold at a profit for 225 to 250

    people refuse to think out of the box on this
    OK, so HP makes $25 per Touchpad - then what? What would convince the average consumer who knows nothing about technical specs to pick the touchpad over the amazon fire?

    Don't say to me "elegant operating system" because nobody cares outside of this forum.
    Last edited by CGK; 09/29/2011 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Typo
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    You're just seriously lacking.
    No ambition whatsoever. And too short.
    I can dunk on my five year old though... my wife hates it when I do that.
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  10. DRFP's Avatar
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       #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    OK, so HP makes $25 per Touchpad - then what? What would convince the average consumer who knows nothing about technical specs to pick the touchpad or the amazon fire?

    Don't say to me "elegant operating system" because nobody cares outside of this forum.
    As Apple people would say "Apps" more memory

    better experience

    Don't knock Kindle its pretty awesome I side loaded hundreds of books we had on my wifes

    My mother in law has a nook and I could not side load no matter what

    Amazon kindle delivers what it should

    I'm using my 32gb TP to post this
    I also have preader and use it
    My wife reads her Kindle books on hers at night.

    surfing is a big use for us
    I'm not here to criticize the Touchpad but to learn how to make it better.
  11. DRFP's Avatar
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       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by stitcher1 View Post
    OMG Apple propaganda yes yes lets believe what Apple wants us to?

    1mil= 50mil loss ? I have a bridge to sell................
    I'm not here to criticize the Touchpad but to learn how to make it better.
  12. cgk
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by drfp View Post
    As Apple people would say "Apps"
    The amazon android store has 16,000 apps in it.


    more memory
    Mainstream doesn't care.

    better experience
    Debatable - if you want to simply watch films, read books and listen to music (which is the fire's target audience) and this has an interface designed around those core functions, why is the Touchpad going to be 'better'? How are you going to have a better experience buying from that awful roxio store on the touchpad than directly on a fire from Amazon themselves ?



    Don't knock Kindle its pretty awesome I side loaded hundreds of books we had on my wifes. My mother in law has a nook and I could not side load no matter what

    Amazon kindle delivers what it should

    I'm using my 32gb TP to post this
    I also have preader and use it
    My wife reads her Kindle books on hers at night.

    surfing is a big use for us
    No idea what this is in reference to?
  13. #13  
    Many companies are willing to sell devices at below cost when they believe they'll more than make up the difference in the sales of media. Amazon will sell enough content for the Fire to ultimately make a profit.
  14. #14  
    @OP
    The processor is a relatively low cost item and the difference is mainly in the cost of the display and it's components. Along with storage and memory, you can see there is not only a hardware gain in the Touchpad but the cost of it's parts is higher than the Kindle Fire.

    reference:
    http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/HP-TouchPad-Carries-$318-Bill-of-Materials.aspx
    HP Touchpad 16GB, webOS 3.0.4, UberKernel 3.0.4-68 @ 1.5Ghz
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronlongo View Post
    Many companies are willing to sell devices at below cost when they believe they'll more than make up the difference in the sales of media. Amazon will sell enough content for the Fire to ultimately make a profit.
    Yup its called the "Razor and Blades business model" You sell an item below cost or even give it away. Planning on making a huge profit off of the consumables.

    You think HP doesn't do it all the time with $30 printers.
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  16. DRFP's Avatar
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       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    The amazon android store has 16,000 apps in it.




    Mainstream doesn't care.



    Debatable - if you want to simply watch films, read books and listen to music (which is the fire's target audience) and this has an interface designed around those core functions, why is the Touchpad going to be 'better'? How are you going to have a better experience buying from that awful roxio store on the touchpad than directly on a fire from Amazon themselves ?





    No idea what this is in reference to?

    OK the fire does apps better?

    For those of us who want a tablet for surfing and listening to music and watching videos
    and a few apps
    what does an Ipad do better?
    If People like me had an Ipad how would I magically use it differently than I use my Touchpad now?

    the only thing I want is a better Office app

    Tablets do not = Laptops in power or use
    for some reason reviewers are starting to say you can photoshop on an IPAD, OMG how painful to do, I think they need better graphic cards and processors and more ram for that.

    What I'm trying to say is that the Touchpad is as good but better than the Fire

    I'm also saying the Kindle's are pretty decent ereaders too

    I really really doubt an analyst (They are guessing) knows for sure AMazon is loosing money per unit, its an opinion and Amazon has kept a lot secrete you know deals are done and they could of built a tablet for less than 199, for all we know they were able to make it for 125 or 150 and then market it.



    So if Amazon can do it then HP can too.
    I'm not here to criticize the Touchpad but to learn how to make it better.
  17. cgk
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by blake711 View Post
    Yup its called the "Razor and Blades business model" You sell an item below cost or even give it away. Planning on making a huge profit off of the consumables.

    You think HP doesn't it all the time with printers.
    Right but the advantage that Amazon has over other tablet makers is not simply digital content but the availability of physical goods. Who doesn't think that when you search for "HD TV" or "watch" or "T-shirt" on the Amazon browser that it will not helpfully lead you to the amazon store?

    This has massive potential to raise revenue at Amazon.
  18. #18  
    As we know, the more of something that you make, the cheaper each unit then becomes. So do the maths! How many iPads?

    Didn't some 'PC' type Mag just decide that the TP had $318 worth of bits in it, including around $10 to assemble it?

    The box that my 32Gb came in still has the official 'Harvey Norman' shelf price label of $697.99 (Aus) stuck on it!
    You can trust HP to have slapped at least 40% for themselves on to 'cost'.. plus shipping & the retailers profit...

    I walked out with firesale TP + case + Keyboard for around $220.. which I reckon IS about 'cost'.. yes!

    Does 16Gb of extra storage really cost $50 (even @ firesale)? No Way!

    Like has been stated.. Amazon are selling a cheap (but not firesale cheap!) 'passport/ticket' to suck you into their main profit engine!
    HP just couldn't!
    Last edited by Mutoidi; 09/29/2011 at 10:16 AM.
  19. cgk
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by drfp View Post

    So if Amazon can do it then HP can too.
    But what's the business model? they sell the tablet at cost or very marginal profit and then....??????

    Amazon actually has a business model - HP just has a failed tablet.
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  20. llamabox's Avatar
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    #20  
    Please... who actually BUYS ebooks these days...
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