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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    If it was that big of a flop then why the hell would you have a fire sale and release 1,000,000 units into the wild in such a tumultuous manner? All you have done is ensured now that you absolutely have to keep supporting the OS, and at least for the time being, the hardware. They would have probably been better off just letting it fade away. Now they actually have a significant user base who have a legitimate expectation of some sort of longevity beause they did give money to HP...
    That's if they in fact have a million units "in the wild". They had whatever stock that was in the pipeline including 250,000 that were being returned by Best Buy. They had parts to make other orders.

    They had a fire sale instead of taking them all to recycling. Whichever way worked best for taxes is what they did.

    A user base of $99 buyers is not a strong statistic to go on.
  2. #22  
    OK. You just keep telling yourself that there is some global conspiracy regarding the number of TP's in the wild, or perhaps the conspiracy is only being perpetrated by some extremely crafty members of this board...

    Now back to the real world, there is not much difference taking a $200 vs a $300 los per unit, I mean big deal in the grand scheme of things. Instead, you devalue your stock value by 25% overnight and ruin your reputation in the process. Not to mention now having to support a million customers.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    OK. You just keep telling yourself that there is some global conspiracy regarding the number of TP's in the wild, or perhaps the conspiracy is only being perpetrated by some extremely crafty members of this board...

    Now back to the real world, there is not much difference taking a $200 vs a $300 los per unit, I mean big deal in the grand scheme of things. Instead, you devalue your stock value by 25% overnight and ruin your reputation in the process. Not to mention now having to support a million customers.
    I personally don't see how 750K units outside of Best Buy existed. They sold less that 12K in Europe in the first month.

    HP was in the Palm business for about a year and about 6 weeks of that time with the Touchpad in the marketplace.

    This is not going to make or break the company.

    The PC business on the other hand...
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    #24  
    if they do bring it back i highly doubt it will be for 99/149. only companies i can think of that sell things at a loss are cell phone companies and gaming console companies. but both make up for the loss in other ways. from any indication on ebay, people are happy to pay double that for them
  5. #25  
    HP is the king of the loss leader marketing strategy, it is just so hard to believe that this fire sale (and ensuing frezy) was not intentional on some level. Let's face it, if you look back in retrospect, if HP had just dumped all their inventory at the fire sale prices (and charged full price on accessories and warranties) and not even mentioned killing off WebOS hardware at all, they would have been universally applauded as being brilliant marketing strategists!
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    HP is the king of the loss leader marketing strategy, it is just so hard to believe that this fire sale (and ensuing frezy) was not intentional on some level. Let's face it, if you look back in retrospect, if HP had just dumped all their inventory at the fire sale prices (and charged full price on accessories and warranties) and not even mentioned killing off WebOS hardware at all, they would have been universally applauded as being brilliant marketing strategists!
    What else do yo do with a product where 250,000 units were being returned by the biggest retailer and every other retailer has unsold stock that they want to unload?
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by ccx View Post
    if they do bring it back i highly doubt it will be for 99/149. only companies i can think of that sell things at a loss are cell phone companies and gaming console companies. but both make up for the loss in other ways. from any indication on ebay, people are happy to pay double that for them
    Some people are paying double the fire sale price, but there appears to be plenty of Touchpads available. No shortage.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Some people are paying double the fire sale price, but there appears to be plenty of Touchpads available. No shortage.
    of course there's a shortage since HP stopped making them. If there were plenty available, then HP touchpads should be selling for $100 on ebay.... yet they're selling for double.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by sparced View Post
    of course there's a shortage since HP stopped making them. If there were plenty available, then HP touchpads should be selling for $100 on ebay.... yet they're selling for double.
    If another batch of $99 Touchpads are released, they will sell out in hours. There are plenty for people to buy on Ebay and Craigslist.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    If another batch of $99 Touchpads are released, they will sell out in hours. There are plenty for people to buy on Ebay and Craigslist.
    you mean if HP restarts regular production of the touchpad at $100?

    no, then people will stop selling them on ebay because there will be a flood of sellers.

    a shortage occurs when demand far exceeds supply. As long as HP has stopped regular production, there's going to be a shortage of touchpads. There's too many people that want the limited quantity that have been released.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by sparced View Post
    you mean if HP restarts regular production of the touchpad at $100?

    no, then people will stop selling them on ebay because there will be a flood of sellers.

    a shortage occurs when demand far exceeds supply. As long as HP has stopped regular production, there's going to be a shortage of touchpads. There's too many people that want the limited quantity that have been released.
    They claim they have more stock coming based on part and factory commitments. We'll see if that happens.

    The Ebay market has nothing to do with HP or demand for a product for what it really costs to manufacture and sell.

    We'll see what happens as time goes on. If all the ebay new units were sold, we may be able to agree. But we don't know how many are waiting to be put up for sale and there and pages and pages of brand new, unsold units.

    There are plenty of places that you can but a Touchpad for under $300 and the stock seems to remain constant.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    They claim they have more stock coming based on part and factory commitments. We'll see if that happens.

    The Ebay market has nothing to do with HP or demand for a product for what it really costs to manufacture and sell.

    We'll see what happens as time goes on. If all the ebay new units were sold, we may be able to agree. But we don't know how many are waiting to be put up for sale and there and pages and pages of brand new, unsold units.

    There are plenty of places that you can but a Touchpad for under $300 and the stock seems to remain constant.
    it really makes no difference whether they release another batch or not though. we know they aren't going to magically release millions more units on the market.

    that's automatically a shortage of units when the price goes up to $200 or $300 on the secondary market and there are none left through any mainstream channels.

    pages and pages of units on ebay still is in the thousands of units or at best tens of thousands. Best Buy had over 200k alone. You're way overestimating the number of overall units being sold on ebay.
    Last edited by sparced; 09/27/2011 at 12:09 AM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by sparced View Post
    it really makes no difference whether they release another batch or not though. we know they aren't going to magically release millions more units on the market.

    that's automatically a shortage of units when the price goes up to $200 or $300 on the secondary market and there are none left through any mainstream channels.

    pages and pages of units on ebay still is in the thousands of units or at best tens of thousands. Best Buy had over 200k alone. You're way overestimating the number of overall units being sold on ebay.
    Time will tell. The fact that at this point there is no shortage of new Touchpads at less than $300 each, shows that it sells like crazy at $99 not so much at $280.
    it also shows that a lot of buyers bought multiple units.

    Anybody, if they want one, can go out and get a brand new Touchpad at half the cost they were before the fire sale, yet there are plenty out there to buy 5 weeks into the media frenzy.

    You can't spin reality.
  14. cgk
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    If it was that big of a flop then why the hell would you have a fire sale and release 1,000,000 units into the wild in such a tumultuous manner?
    It was discontinued and firesaled after 42 days, however people here want to argue that black is white, that is a textbook flop.

    Now they actually have a significant user base who have a legitimate expectation of some sort of longevity beause they did give money to HP...
    I gave them 89, I have an expectation that it will last for six months or more. It was a firesale product, continued development is a bonus not an expectation.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Time will tell. The fact that at this point there is no shortage of new Touchpads at less than $300 each, shows that it sells like crazy at $99 not so much at $280.
    it also shows that a lot of buyers bought multiple units.

    Anybody, if they want one, can go out and get a brand new Touchpad at half the cost they were before the fire sale, yet there are plenty out there to buy 5 weeks into the media frenzy.

    You can't spin reality.
    actually so far you haven't proven anything about how many people bought multiple units. I'd stipulate that a few thousand people bought multiple units, but that's about it based on guessing. Anything beyond that you haven't provided any evidence that there's a real volume of selling on ebay compared to the actually total sold by HP.

    All you can deduce on ebay is that the small quantity of touchpads are available... a small fraction of the overall total sold touchpads are being bid up to $200.... but only because it's now a limited quantity item.

    If there really were plenty available to buy, then we'd be seeing far closer to $100 pricing and we aren't.
    Last edited by sparced; 09/27/2011 at 04:26 AM.
  16. cgk
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    #36  
    But really what does it matter either way? HP simply don't care, they don't want to be in the consumer space, they are moving out of the consumer space and the appointment of Whitman suggests that this strategy will continue as planned. It's all academic at this point.
  17. #37  
    there is no way that HP can bring back the current touchpad model. they can't just keep making them to sell at a huge loss, and they can't raise the price significantly either. However, HP can proceed with the TouchPad Go at a reasonable price-point, probably $299, MAYBE $349. It's a different product with a different (though obviously overlapping) target market, and it has many advantages over the original TouchPad (smaller/lighter, gps, rear camera, better revision of webOS than launch TouchPad). I don't think it will happen, but it's far more possible than the notion that they'll bring back the current touchpad. once the final production run of touchpads is done, then that's it.
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    #38  
    I think the introduction of the Kindle Fire makes it likely that HP will have to firesale the last batch.
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