Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 103
Like Tree52Likes
  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    They will provide that access with... Windows 8 tablets.
    You'd have to think that Android would be an option too.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Why do they need WebOS for mobility?
    they don't. I'm just think WebOS is dead and HP will get back with Microsoft and focus on tablets for the enterprise - like the slate.

    Just sucks as WebOS is pretty slick.
  3. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Posts
    3,868 Posts
    Global Posts
    9,556 Global Posts
    #63  
    I wonder if they were banking on windows not going touch friendly in this version and when it became clear that 8 was going heavily that way it completely threw out their plan to grow user share via PC usage. Moreover, this gives WP7 the sort of advantage that people were talking about from webOS on the pc, that people become use to the GUI - 8 borrows heavily from the metro interface of WP7
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    You'd have to think that Android would be an option too.
    I think there would be suicides from certain members of this board if the company that OWNS WebOS started putting out Android devices. It would be worse than just killing WebOS, it would be cuckolding WebOS.
    dignitary likes this.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    OK. Touchpads are a known entity now. Whatever, since they are the only hardware at the moment. The concept is very simple, you give the product as a loss leader to get them into the wild. This spurs developer interest... snip
    This is a myth perpetuated by hope.
    dignitary and wilsonlam97 like this.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Except next week, it's pretty clear that Amazon are going to launch their $250 tablet so that window is now closing fast. And if it comes down to a dog fight between HP and Amazon, the smart money would be on Amazon.
    + $79 Amazon Prime included from the rumors. So that would include instant access to stream movies to the new "Kindle". Not too bad of a deal.

    That being said - I want the Lenovo Tablet running Windows 7 with the option of a Windows 8 upgrade.

    I like my TouchPad - don't get me wrong. But there's a lot lacking in the Browser compared to what I am used to with Windows. Saving files, opening files, downloading files, reading files, finding the darn files!

    I like Windows.
    Last edited by allowingtoo; 09/24/2011 at 11:30 AM.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    This is a myth perpetuated by hope.
    The X Box 360 started as a loss leader. They initially sold their units for over $150 off their manufacturing costs to get into the market dominated by Sony at the time. They were quickly infused into the wild, became a viable platform for development, and ultimately ended up lowering manufacturing costs. Stuff like this happens every day in business, it is not some novel concept.

    It is a pretty good strategy to get into (assuming that you want to) a competitive market extremely dominated by very few (or one) competitor, especially if you have the ability to withstand the losses short term.

    Sounds like Amazon is going to do it with their new thing. Razor manufacturers all but GIVE AWAY their razors for free so you buy their blades. Smaller telcos offering IPTV services to their customers typically have out of market sports packages, that they offer even though they take a loss on monthly satellite channel costs, in order to retain and grow their customer base. There are numerous examples in every day life that follow the loss leader strategy, not everything in life is profitable per unit, there are lots of other ways to recoup costs...
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    The X Box 360 started as a loss leader. They initially sold their units for over $150 off their manufacturing costs to get into the market dominated by Sony at the time. They were quickly infused into the wild, became a viable platform for development, and ultimately ended up lowering manufacturing costs. Stuff like this happens every day in business, it is not some novel concept.

    It is a pretty good strategy to get into (assuming that you want to) a competitive market extremely dominated by very few (or one) competitor, especially if you have the ability to withstand the losses short term.

    Sounds like Amazon is going to do it with their new thing. Razor manufacturers all but GIVE AWAY their razors for free so you buy their blades. Smaller telcos offering IPTV services to their customers typically have out of market sports packages, that they offer even though they take a loss on monthly satellite channel costs, in order to retain and grow their customer base. There are numerous examples in every day life that follow the loss leader strategy, not everything in life is profitable per unit, there are lots of other ways to recoup costs...
    Yes but the Xbox and razors have something in common. No other games other than Xbox games can play on the Xbox. No other blades other than the razor manufacturers blades will fit on the razor. If HP sold tablets at a loss that were easily converted to Android tablets, it would bankrupt the hell out of them. And literally it would only take maybe 5% of sales converting to Android to make the entire thing a disaster for HP.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    The X Box 360 started as a loss leader. They initially sold their units for over $150 off their manufacturing costs to get into the market dominated by Sony at the time. They were quickly infused into the wild, became a viable platform for development, and ultimately ended up lowering manufacturing costs. Stuff like this happens every day in business, it is not some novel concept.

    It is a pretty good strategy to get into (assuming that you want to) a competitive market extremely dominated by very few (or one) competitor, especially if you have the ability to withstand the losses short term.

    Sounds like Amazon is going to do it with their new thing. Razor manufacturers all but GIVE AWAY their razors for free so you buy their blades. Smaller telcos offering IPTV services to their customers typically have out of market sports packages, that they offer even though they take a loss on monthly satellite channel costs, in order to retain and grow their customer base. There are numerous examples in every day life that follow the loss leader strategy, not everything in life is profitable per unit, there are lots of other ways to recoup costs...
    What good is an xBox without a game? The games were not cheap. What's the cost of three or four games? How much of a cut did MS get from each game sold? Want two players, need another controller.
    This scenario is always used to justify selling a tablet as a loss leader without looking at everything else that surrounded the Xbox or PS3. The only place it fits is in the posters mind.
    SnotBoogie likes this.
  10. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Posts
    3,868 Posts
    Global Posts
    9,556 Global Posts
    #70  
    Yeah, the gaming model is completely different and does not fit the tablet market.
    SnotBoogie likes this.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by muyoso View Post
    Yes but the Xbox and razors have something in common. No other games other than Xbox games can play on the Xbox. No other blades other than the razor manufacturers blades will fit on the razor. If HP sold tablets at a loss that were easily converted to Android tablets, it would bankrupt the hell out of them. And literally it would only take maybe 5% of sales converting to Android to make the entire thing a disaster for HP.
    xbox/razors have a couple more important things in common along with the kindle.... they actually have something to sell today that makes up for the loss. They also have a long established customer base that built their brand.

    HP has far too few apps to make up for billions of dollars in hardware losses. The problem with building an OS for one hardware manufacturer is that you have a far more uphill battle to climb with consumers. Your razor blades/games/ebooks/apps have to be ready to go from day one.

    Here's just a couple small glaring examples that i noticed right off the bat.... We don't even have basic things like a pandora or yelp app optimized for the Touchpad. No netflix app or the primary twitter apps. The list could go on and on....
  12. hankbuddy's Avatar
    Posts
    48 Posts
    Global Posts
    52 Global Posts
    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Yeah, the gaming model is completely different and does not fit the tablet market.
    You can't really say that, because we don't really know what the tablet market is like yet. However, if you put 25 million tablets out there, and each one of those can generate an average of $1 a week in commission on app sales from your app catalog, that's $1.3 billion a year. And what are your direct costs to generate that income? I've got to think they would be pretty low. You can see how this model can start to generate a pretty nice cash flow.
  13. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Posts
    3,868 Posts
    Global Posts
    9,556 Global Posts
    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by hankbuddy View Post
    You can't really say that, because we don't really know what the tablet market is like yet. However, if you put 25 million tablets out there, and each one of those can generate an average of $1 a week in commission on app sales from your app catalog, that's $1.3 billion a year. And what are your direct costs to generate that income? I've got to think they would be pretty low. You can see how this model can start to generate a pretty nice cash flow.
    Yeah we do, unless you are proposing that HP puts out the same basic spec touchpad for a 5 year plus period (which is part of the gaming costing model). Plus your app revenue is way out of whack with reality - $52 dollars per users per year (so $170 per user spent on app) from every user?


    no chance (that is without getting into the fantasy of HP being able to shift 25 units - on current performance that would take until 2030ad!)
    Last edited by CGK; 09/24/2011 at 04:10 PM.
    SnotBoogie likes this.
  14. #74  
    Look, we can all agree that HP has no interest in being in hardware anymore, that is a given. But, they are also looking for a way to bring value to their investment in WebOS which, because of what they have done, has a value of pretty much $0 as it stands. All I am saying is that if they did choose to still manufacture the TouchPads as a loss leader temporarily, there is suddenly value in the OS. Nobody is dumb enough to think that HP has any plans in furthering their investment, only to mitigate their losses...

    And there are obviously ways for the tablet market to capitalize on the loss leader strategy, that is just stupidity to think otherwise.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by hankbuddy View Post
    You can't really say that, because we don't really know what the tablet market is like yet. However, if you put 25 million tablets out there, and each one of those can generate an average of $1 a week in commission on app sales from your app catalog, that's $1.3 billion a year. And what are your direct costs to generate that income? I've got to think they would be pretty low. You can see how this model can start to generate a pretty nice cash flow.
    No we can say that. Only HP and those waiting for a miraculous Touchpad comeback really don't know what the tablet market is like.

    If you look beyond these boards you will find the tablet market consists of the following:
    1: Well made, well spec'd hardware
    2: Responsive UI out of the box (Patches are not a solution, it's an excuse.)
    3: Healthy and viable ecosystem (Movie/Music Store)
    4: Robust and varied App store
    5: Shore up your supply lines months or years in advance to keep your cost down.
    6: A thriving third party accessories environment, of which many here took advantage of to buy iPad cases for their Touchpad. Good thing there were enough iPad vendors to give Touchpad owners a choice.
    As sub category to item 3 above is Apps for Business at launch.

    The current path to tablet success has been established. The paths that ain't working so well have also been established with HP as the poster child.

    The problem is that of HP employees that own a tablet, most already owned an iPad. LOL
    Last edited by sinsin07; 09/24/2011 at 05:46 PM.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by hankbuddy View Post
    You can't really say that, because we don't really know what the tablet market is like yet. However, if you put 25 million tablets out there, and each one of those can generate an average of $1 a week in commission on app sales from your app catalog, that's $1.3 billion a year. And what are your direct costs to generate that income? I've got to think they would be pretty low. You can see how this model can start to generate a pretty nice cash flow.
    25 million tablets at ~$300 to manufacture each is 7.5 billion dollars in losses for HP. So after the CEO that OK'd this plan is fired and the stockholders set his house on fire and chase his children out of the country, lets take a look at how long it would take HP to recoup its money using your model.

    52 dollars of commission per year at a 30% commission rate means each tablet has around 173.33 dollars in app sales per year.

    At 52 dollars of commission per year, HP would make 1.3 billion dollars from app sale commission. That is revenue, not profit. So from this 1.3 billion they have to deduct costs of bandwidth, advertisement, employees, credit card fees, etc. Apple makes around 44% gross profit off of their app store revenue. So that would place HP at around 572 million in profit per year.

    7.5 billion divided by 572 million places HP's break even point around 13.1 years, disregarding variations and the opportunity cost of the 7.5 billion.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubuntite View Post
    Umm, Ok. Then why was Leo fired?
    This. Totally this.
    Soorma likes this.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by muyoso View Post
    25 million tablets at ~$300 to manufacture each is 7.5 billion dollars in losses for HP. So after the CEO that OK'd this plan is fired and the stockholders set his house on fire and chase his children out of the country, lets take a look at how long it would take HP to recoup its money using your model.

    52 dollars of commission per year at a 30% commission rate means each tablet has around 173.33 dollars in app sales per year.

    At 52 dollars of commission per year, HP would make 1.3 billion dollars from app sale commission. That is revenue, not profit. So from this 1.3 billion they have to deduct costs of bandwidth, advertisement, employees, credit card fees, etc. Apple makes around 44% gross profit off of their app store revenue. So that would place HP at around 572 million in profit per year.

    7.5 billion divided by 572 million places HP's break even point around 13.1 years, disregarding variations and the opportunity cost of the 7.5 billion.
    Great reasoning but did HP really expect to become a sensation overnight?
    The Original Owner of the AT&T Pre3
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    Oh well, bummer. Good thing Amazon was late to the party I guess, they got the exact price point from the TP fiasco. I am sure they are selling it at a loss as well...
    Once again the similarity and conclusion is incorrect.

    1: Amazon is not late, they already have a tablet like device. People are used to Amazon and the Kindle, whether they own one or not they know about it.
    2: Amazon has one of if not the largest online stores in the world.
    3: Amazon already has an Android App store.
    4: Amazon has music/movie store
    5: Amazon has cloud services
    6: The Touchpad firesale has nothing to do with Amazon's prince point. Amazon is competing with B&N's 7" Nook, priced at guess what, $249. To some degree it will also compete with other tablets. Their price point was set long before the Touchpad fiasco. What, do you think Amazon said "Oh look at what happened to the Touchpad, we should drop our price?"

    Amazon got all their ducks in a row first.

    HP only had one duckling that hadn't learned to swim yet. When the duckling hit the waters that is the tablet market, it drowned. Ducklings are not suppose to drown.

    Read Engaget's review on how tightly the Amazon store will be integrated into their new tablet.

    RIM is a company that may need to adjust prices. The Touchpad firesale is an anomaly, not a rule. And certainly not something other tablet manufacturers want to follow.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 09/24/2011 at 07:18 PM.
  20. #80  
    It almost seems that are eager to kill their own business.
    Vote for QuickOffice for Palm Pre!
    http://quickoffice.ideascale.com/a/dtd/21866-5219
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions