Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 44
Like Tree20Likes
  1. #21  
    [QUOTE=SnotBoogie;3157340] they can't afford the money to make it profitable. /QUOTE]

    Hi all

    Yes HP can afford it...they made a huge pile of money even in this down economy...they just don't want to take a loss to gain market share...no better to be Leo kill off well over 20% of the value of the firm in one day and it's keeps on sliding from there...lose all that money and have nothing to show for it...or lose money for a year or two to build up a user base for webOS and then make a bigger profit they they are making now...
    .

    Only that would have required Leo to listen to the webOS group who all told him not to use the hardware design they ended up using...the one that was based on and modified from an almost 2 year old design for a WIN Tablet.......that HP never put on the market b/c is was so slow with WIN and ate batteries by the second...

    At that point the webOS employees told Leo webOS had out grown the hardware...but he wanted to do the TouchPad on the cheap and look what he has to show for it...

    I also find fault with Mark Hurd...before buying Palm/webOS they should have cut a deal with Amazon for content...they already had the infrastructure...no instead HP bought a small music firm and then did next to nothing with it...

    You can't become number 2 as he stated he wanted to overnight without losing money in the short run....but Leo is too foolish and too headstrong to make a loss into a win!

    So instead Amazon is doing so but sadly without webOS...

    I've said it before and I'll say it again...this next stockholder's meeting is going to be a humdinger

    I posted this elsewhere on Precentral...but since we are talking about HP and losing money, give this a read!

    HP Execs Misled Investors Before August Stock Crash: Lawsuit | Fox Business

    Take care,

    jay

    PS I'm willing to bet real $ that the lawsuit mentioned in the link in the previous paragraph is far from the only one HP will get served with, since Leo ET AL screwed over the stockholders so....I imagine that the employees are heavily invested in HP thru their pension/401k plans and they can't be happy about it either! I wouldn't be surprised to see them sue the board as well.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  2. #22  
    Hi all,

    Well it looks as if they will have another lawsuit to deal with, that's two and counting, see link.

    Take care,

    Jay

    Holzer Holzer & Fistel, LLC Announces Investigation into Potential Claims for Breach of Fiduciary Duties by Certain Officers and Directors of Hewlett-Packard Company

    Holzer Holzer & Fistel, LLC Announces Investigation into Potential Claims for Breach of Fiduciary Duties by Certain Officers and Directors of Hewlett-Packard Company - MarketWatch

    ATLANTA, Sep 15, 2011 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Holzer Holzer & Fistel, LLC announces that it is investigating potential breaches of fiduciary duties by certain officers and directors of Hewlett-Packard Company ("HP" or the "Company")
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  3. jdale's Avatar
    Posts
    554 Posts
    Global Posts
    564 Global Posts
    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    At that point the webOS employees told Leo webOS had out grown the hardware...but he wanted to do the TouchPad on the cheap and look what he has to show for it...
    I keep seeing variations of this but look at the performance of the Touchpad after patches have been applied. It's fine. There's nothing wrong with the Touchpad hardware. The OS is not sufficiently optimized for performance. They needed to put more resources into that optimization.

    (You could also say it was released too soon - but there are also market considerations. They needed to put more programmer-hours into it but they needed to start doing it earlier in the process.)
  4. #24  
    Yeah, when we lay blame on the hardware, we really should separate specs from the design. The TouchPad's design is just terrible but the specs are top of the line. It's really webOS that drags performance down.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdale View Post
    You could also say it was released too soon - but there are also market considerations.
    Hi all,

    Sorry I don't agree with you at all....they shouldn't have rushed to announce it in January and than not have it ready month after month after month...Leo should never have said we will announce things just as they are ready to be released not months and months before...and then lie and do the opposite... I would rather a product be late then bomb b/c it was rushed....the TouchPad was rushed and they made a bunch of foolish decisions as well.....

    How many hand held products over the years have been slammed as a finger print magnet...yet that's what they produced...they either should have used a different plastic finish or put some kind of grip type surface on the back. Even if it mean putting on as a sticker on surface on the back....

    Even though the commercials avoided the creepy Pre lady, they never stressed the wireless charging system or touch to share...

    As soon as critical reviews came in complaining about the thickness they should have put out ads saying sure were just a few MM thicker and heavier but we have wireless charging and talk about Touch To Share....

    The Pre3 should have been released at the same time as the Touchpad so they could show Touch To Share...

    The entire issue was botched from the get go...now it doesn't help that one CEO actually did the deal for Palm/webOS and he got thrown out....(because his wife didn't get his zippers welded shut), they pushed out a cheap product that wasn't ready and promised and promised and promised the Pre3 and never delivered....

    HP also lied and fumbled...they said time and again they would pay to have apps ported to webOS, they would supply the manpower and pay the fees...they would hire staff to write apps....so where are they??? The press is fixated on number of apps, we all know it weather its right or not, that's what the press does....HP knew it and did nothing about it...

    They pushed the Veer out that was a product that was looking for a market in stead of the Pre 3 which had a market looking for a product...

    They should have made the TouchPad look and feel more substantial than the iPad and fumbled.....

    It now comes out that HP tried to sell the PC business months before Leo decided to scrape what was left of Palm, The Pre2, Pre3, Veer, TouchPad and the rest of HP's PC division...

    Leo wanted it cheap he wasn't very concerned about it being good...HP had the opportunity to turn out something that should have been far more powerful than the iPad and the screwed it up.....

    I sure hope the stockholder rip him a new one...which I assume will happen since he as caused the price of HP's stock to take a pounding....no matter how he has packed the board with friends...he still faces very unhappy stockholders...

    OH and BTW don't underestimate the power of the stockholders....I carried on so forcefully at a stockholders meeting that the then CEO of Con-ed, (electric & gas company for NYC) offered to quit!

    Take care,

    jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Yeah, when we lay blame on the hardware, we really should separate specs from the design. The TouchPad's design is just terrible but the specs are top of the line.
    In good old PreCentral days, I'll bet, you would get at least one response like: "Oh, yeah, and you are industrial designer to be able to discuss TouchPaad's design?"
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    It's really webOS that drags performance down.
    And for that one we all know good old: "webOs apps are not precompiled; you should keep open cards..."
    But in reality this wisdom haven't worked
  7. #27  
    I like it, but analysts are the proverbial 'dime-a-dozen', and one can find an analyst who will agree with any position. If you search carefully you'll even find some who take multiple sides on an issue.

    Even if HP did resurrect their webOS operations, as long as the same cast of clowns are running the show, I wouldn't expect them to do anything but mess things up.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    Even if HP did resurrect their webOS operations, as long as the same cast of clowns are running the show, I wouldn't expect them to do anything but mess things up.
    Hi all,

    I agree with you...Heads should roll starting with Leo's.....in the words of Julia Sugarbaker, (played brilliantly by Dixie Carter)..."we're taking this to the woodshed and one of us isn't coming back alive"...

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  9. #29  
    IMHO it is crazy for HP of all companies to abandon webOS now that they have accidentally created a market demand for what could be an awesome mobile operating system. HP needs to take a deep breath, step back and look at the opportunity before them. They need only to redesign the damn tablet and support the software developers. I'm starting to think they tried to build hardware on the cheap and rather than face a total recall, they threw in the towel and held a fire sale. I can't help but feel the cracks I'm reading about played a part in all that has come down. The hardware can be redesigned and they are big enough to absorb the loss. webOS is still the main component and that need only be improved on.
    ilovedessert and Rnp like this.
  10. #30  
    HP faced reality - that maintaining OS is serious, hard and expensive work which needs focus devotion and vision.
    dj ozone likes this.
  11. jdale's Avatar
    Posts
    554 Posts
    Global Posts
    564 Global Posts
    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    Sorry I don't agree with you at all....they shouldn't have rushed to announce it in January and than not have it ready month after month after month...Leo should never have said we will announce things just as they are ready to be released not months and months before...and then lie and do the opposite... I would rather a product be late then bomb b/c it was rushed....the TouchPad was rushed and they made a bunch of foolish decisions as well.....
    My point was that you could say the Touchpad was rushed in the sense that they did not take the time to optimize the OS properly. Not in any other sense. From a market standpoint they clearly needed to get it out as soon as possible. The only real solution would have been putting more people on the project earlier. You can have your development time and your timely release too. If you are willing to expend the resources to do so.

    I agree with many of your other points. However, I don't think they detract from my point that the Touchpad hardware is not underpowered. E.g. sure, I would prefer a non-glossy screen, but that has nothing to do with performance.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdale View Post
    My point was that you could say the Touchpad was rushed in the sense that they did not take the time to optimize the OS properly. Not in any other sense. From a market standpoint they clearly needed to get it out as soon as possible. The only real solution would have been putting more people on the project earlier. You can have your development time and your timely release too. If you are willing to expend the resources to do so.

    I agree with many of your other points. However, I don't think they detract from my point that the Touchpad hardware is not underpowered. E.g. sure, I would prefer a non-glossy screen, but that has nothing to do with performance.
    There is a saying in Linux that I feel equates to the TouchPad and webOS in general:

    Release Early, Release Often

    What I think this means is get the product out to the users who want it now even if it has some bugs, but fix the bugs as soon as possible. Constantly improve the product and don't be afraid to listen to users input.

    I think when releasing both a hardware and software solution, get the hardware to where you feel it should be to insure growth in the product, get the software to where it is stable not perfect, then release the product. I felt that HP did this with the TouchPad. The hardware is ahead of most of the products on the market. The TouchPad has more memory and processor power than many of the other tablets, to include the iPad 2. The ability to overclock the processor and maintain stability shows that the platform is very capable of long term use. Even the Android folks who bought the TouchPad in hopes of a port will reluctantly agree to that.

    Where the TouchPad has problems is the stability and speed of the software. There are lots of bugs, memory leaks, and a lack of GPU optimizations built in. However, unlike the Android and iOS products that will require newer and faster hardware to grow because the optimizations are already there and pushing the limits of the hardware, the TouchPad just needs software improvements to get faster. We've seen TouchPads performing on par with their counterparts with just some minor tweaks (patches and logging changes) to the software, imagine how much faster it will get once HP adds GPU acceleration and improves the software.

    We should look at tablets like computers and buy them based on how long the hardware will last and not how pretty they are. Techies wants to go out and buy the latest and greatest because it is exciting. That's fine. However, average users want something that will last and don't want to pay or can't afford to pay $500 ever year for a new toy. From a user standpoint, improvements to the software are free (unless we are talking about desktop Windows), improvements to the hardware are expensive.

    Back to my Linux analogy...

    I have seen people marvel over every new version of Windows, even though before they even get the new version, they have to waste hard earned money updating their system or buying a whole new computer. This is the same with iOS and Android. Why? Each major version of Windows, iOS, and Android requires more and more processing power and memory to get what are minor software enhancements. Why? The companies that produce them make their money off of the hardware.

    Although new releases of Linux are buggy at first, they get faster and faster and better looking in time without having to upgrade the hardware. I have a six year old computer with only 1GB of RAM running the latest version of Linux and it looks and performs a whole lot better than Windows 7 (which requires more power) on the same system. I have not had to buy another computer or even upgrade the hardware on my computer in the last six years. I saved a ton of money switching to Linux that I would not have saved using Windows.

    I feel the TouchPad with webOS is the same way. I can skip a generation or two with the TouchPad because I know that future improvements to webOS will make it faster. I've seen first hand that I can't do that with iOS (got burned because iOS 4 want run on my older iPod Touch) or Android (3.x requires more memory than my 2.x tablet has) products because Apple and the Android vendors make the bulk of their money on hardware sales so they have no incentive to make their OS work on older hardware. HP makes it money (or planned to make its money) from TouchPad owners through services.

    ps. I apologize if this post is a little incoherent. I'm on my 3rd cup of coffee this morning.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    There is a saying in Linux that I feel equates to the TouchPad and webOS in general:

    Release Early, Release Often[/url]:
    Hi all, Sorry I don;t agree with you.

    1. You only get one time to make a first imprersion
    ...products live fast and die young by reviews these days!

    2. Linux is basicly free with a firms making a releatively small amount of money customizing it....it's usage by the genral public is nil...in fact most of my friends who aren't techies don't even know what Linux is....as compared to webOS that was supposed to be on all HP PC's and they were going to "Double down" on apps and hardware....

    Linux is software only no hardware....this htread is about webOS and the TouchPad....HP knew what the comition was and screwed up, they lied to all of us and frankly they weren't ready....

    Add to that Leo didn't buy webOS for all we know he wasn't even interested in it....we don't really know considering his mountain of lies...

    HP did follow your advice and until HP killed off the TouchPad and looks as if they will dump webOS as soon as it can...after all, it now has well over the $1.2 billion it paid and has notheing to show for it but a huge drain on income as it works to make an OS that so far no one else is making hardware for and many app writer/creators have jumped ship...and that's what happens when you make it fast but not good!

    take care,

    Jay

    3. At this point by accident more non techies know about webOS then Linux...
    Last edited by ilovedessert; 09/18/2011 at 07:27 PM.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  14. #34  
    Its a moot point now that they are getting rid of the hardware employees.
  15. #35  
    Hi all,

    Let's face it Leo screwed the customers, webOS lovers, the employees and the stockholders....

    HE FIGURED OUT HOW TO TURN GOLD INTO LEAD

    ....and it only cost approx 1 1/2 BILLION Dollars!

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdale View Post
    My point was that you could say the Touchpad was rushed in the sense that they did not take the time to optimize the OS properly. Not in any other sense. From a market standpoint they clearly needed to get it out as soon as possible. The only real solution would have been putting more people on the project earlier. You can have your development time and your timely release too. If you are willing to expend the resources to do so.

    I agree with many of your other points. However, I don't think they detract from my point that the Touchpad hardware is not underpowered. E.g. sure, I would prefer a non-glossy screen, but that has nothing to do with performance.
    There was no market need to get it out as soon as possible. They THOUGHT there was. Reality is they'd have been better off releasing a product when the OS was actually fit to compete with Android and iOS, not in order to meet an Apple release date or to just 'get in the tablet game'.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    There is a saying in Linux that I feel equates to the TouchPad and webOS in general:

    Release Early, Release Often
    That's great when it's a free download. Not so much when it costs you hundreds of dollars to buy a beta release piece of hardware. It alienates customers. Because at $400 people expect a finished product, not a 'release early and often' update method to fix all the out-of-box problems.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by *****lyPete View Post
    There was no market need to get it out as soon as possible. They THOUGHT there was. Reality is they'd have been better off releasing a product when the OS was actually fit to compete with Android and iOS, not in order to meet an Apple release date or to just 'get in the tablet game'.
    See, I sort of understand the need to launch something before it becomes an iPad market. Sort of. What I don't understand is why HP timed it so that the TouchPad would end up getting beaten to the market by the vastly superior iPad 2.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilotovef View Post

    “Perhaps no other technology vendor, apart from Apple, has ever created such hype for a technology product,” Canalys continued. “HP has established a lead in the race to be the number two behind Apple in the pad business but the window of opportunity will begin to close if delays occur.”

    Yeah, but anyone can create the same amount of hype by selling their $500 tablet at $99. Think of how many people would line up for a Xoom or a Samsung Galaxy at $99. I agree that there's nothing special at all about the 'hype' that the TouchPad got. It's all about the $99 and little about which tablet it was that hit that price.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    See, I sort of understand the need to launch something before it becomes an iPad market. Sort of. What I don't understand is why HP timed it so that the TouchPad would end up getting beaten to the market by the vastly superior iPad 2.
    It was an iPad market already before they even released it, there was an iPad market the day the original iPad went on sale. In fact, at that price point there IS no tablet market. There's an iPad market.

    What I don't understand is why they didn't attack a different price point/hardware specs out of the gate instead of releasing a half-finished product that it laughable in comparison in terms of polish, support, and functionality (an NO...flash support does not make up for the massive lack of functionality in the rest of the platform, including lack of software).

    Amazon seems to be the first to 'get it'. Screw making an iPad killer. Make an affordable (sub-$300) tablet that runs competently. Stop getting in the spec chasing game with Apple's newest release. Specs without software support is meaningless.
    ilovedessert, Rnp and C-Note like this.
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions