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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    You know what's fun? Trying to hit targets in Flash elements designed for a cursor with my finger. It's almost like a game in itself!
    No joke about that. However there is a simple solution for it that works on any modern mobile device to include the TouchPad, use pinch to zoom to make the Flash element bigger, then hit it. Works like a charm every time. Flash mouse over elements don't work on any mobile device I have tried yet. Hopefully Adobe improves those in future Flash releases.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    I think it's good iOS doesn't have flash. There may not have been a touchpad, or even fewer than exist now.
    Maybe if iOS also handled multi-tasking like webOS, especially on the TouchPad, I would completely agree with you. Apple made a strategic decision not to include Flash. The lack of Flash or any other plug-ins means more apps that "add" that lost functionality. More apps means a higher app count. Also Apple gets a cut from the app sales. Even if the app is offered for free, Apple gets a cut of the content provided. They charge Amazon 30% for every book delivered to their "free" Kindle app on iOS. That 30% charge will eventually make it's way to you, the consumer, because content providers won't absorb those cost. They will just pass it on to you. If Apple added plug-in support their app count would go down and it would be harder to charge for or control the content going to the device. Welcome to the walled garden. Hope the plants smell good. Don't worry about getting stung by the bees.

    Edit: They also made a strategic decision to do their own sorry version of multi-tasking. Real multi-tasking drains battery power. They can advertise that their devices have better battery life until mobile batteries capacity catch up with demand. Then Apple will "magically" add better webOS like multi-tasking to their devices.
    Last edited by k4ever; 09/17/2011 at 08:24 PM.
  3. #143  
    The sad irony is, iOS can load web pages in the background, but webOS can't.

    (not that an update couldn't do it, but...)

    After seeing that Android on TP vid (in the other tablets forum), it makes me sad to see just how unoptimized webOS really is for the HW. I always thought Android required a lot of brute forcing to run well, compared to iOS, but even that destroys webOS handily.

    However, it would still be a challenge to give up cards, notifications, and synergy, however that's all webOS really has going for it anymore.

    As for apps, it is important, having Flash can only go so far. I wouldn't mind a better browser, Office suite, VLC, more EA games, an RDP client, although that should be fixed with Splashtop. Oh, and a good PDF reader, bookmarks and go to functions are a must.
  4. HansTWN's Avatar
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    #144  
    Of course WebOS loads web pages in the background. They load but the screen doesn't refresh until you switch back to the browser and then the full page is there immediately. Try it.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
    Of course WebOS loads web pages in the background. They load but the screen doesn't refresh until you switch back to the browser and then the full page is there immediately. Try it.
    I've tried it and it's kind of frustrating because it loads slower than loading a fresh page.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    The browser on the touchpad is shocking, it loads slower than the browser on my cheap $90 800mhz phone and lack basic features - it is like a browser from 2008 not 2011. The advantages of flash would be great but I had to turn it off to get the BBC website to load...

    The experience makes me more thankful for apps not less.
    Ok, just spent the last 45 minutes running test to see if your statement holds water. Use the following devices to test:

    Wife's Sony Vaio laptop w/ Intel Core 2 Duo T6400 dual-core 2 GHz processor (stock), 4 GHz RAM, 64 bit Windows Vista, IE 9

    Daughter's Archos 70 1GHz Single core (in performance mode), ARM Cortex A8 Processor, 256MB RAM, Android 2.2 Custom ROM (with a lot of goodies turned on ), Default Android Browser (should satisfy the cheap 800MHz phone specs)

    My HP TouchPad, 1.2 GHz Scorpion dual-core Snapdragon Processor (overclocked to 1.5 GHz using Uberkernel), 1GB RAM, webOS 3.0.2 (with logging minimized, and all the speed enhancements)

    Funny thing is that I don't have any mobile devices that I have not tweaked to get a fair amount of goodness out of them. Only the laptop is stock so don't hold this against me. Here are my findings:

    Browser Start-up times:

    IE 9 = 00:01.77 seconds before a window appeared, another second before Google loaded, nice!

    Archos 70 = 00:02.53 before a window appeared after stopping the browser in the task manager, Google was loaded almost instantly afterwards, had to tap the url window for keyboard

    HP TouchPad = 00:02.63 before window loaded with keyboard ready to type

    PreCentral.net load times (Cached cleared, history cleared, Auto loading Flash enabled, Javascript Enabled, View Desktop Website enabled):

    IE 9 = 00:13.84 seconds
    TouchPad = 00:24.49 seconds*
    Archos 70 = 00:25.27 seconds

    *for some reason only the TouchPad loads an annoying Radio Shack banner at the bottom of the page that seems to add at least two seconds of additional time to the browser load. Derek and the PreCentral staff, what gives? Why are you torturing TouchPad users with that stupid ad?

    Politico.com load times (Cached cleared, history cleared, Auto loading Flash enabled, Javascript Enabled, View Desktop Website enabled):

    IE 9 = 00:06.53 seconds
    TouchPad = 00:11.22 seconds
    Archos 70 = 00:13.82 seconds

    PreCentral.net load times (Cached cleared, history cleared, Auto loading Flash enabled, Javascript Disabled, View Desktop Website enabled):

    TouchPad = 00:09.94 seconds*
    Archos 70 = 00:11.11 seconds

    No stupid banner this time, both Touchpad and Archos 70 were faster than IE 9 when Javascript was turned off.

    Politico.com load times (Cached cleared, history cleared, Auto loading Flash enabled, Javascript Disabled, View Desktop Website enabled):

    TouchPad = 00:04.94 seconds*
    Archos 70 = 00:08.40 seconds

    TouchPad was still faster than IE 9 but nearly twice as fast as the Archos 70

    The TouchPad's browser has issues with Javascript which is well documented in the forums. Turn it off and the TouchPad's browser will smoke just about anything out there to included a laptop. Even with javascript left on, the TouchPad's browser beats a "cheap" Android phone even with a custom ROM and some tweaking.

    BTW, justs for grins I tried Dolphin HD on Android (my favorite Android Browser). I won't post the times because it wasn't even close. Dolphin is much slower than the default Android browser on start-up time and about second slower on load times. I also tried the latest version of Firefox on Windows which smoked IE and everything else in load times but took a second longer than IE 9 to open. The TouchPad still beat FireFox when javascript was turned off. We need a way to replace the TouchPad's javascript engine. It is a definite drag on the system.

    Edit: Set "Palm Default" Mode in Govnah to force TouchPad back to 1.2 GHz. One second was added to Politico load time (00:12.71 w/Javascript, 00:05.93 w/o Javascript) but PreCentral.net load time was almost 3 seconds faster (00:21.73) w/Javascript enabled but the stupid banner did not load (00:10.51 w/o Javascript)! Please Derek and company find another way to display Radio Shack ads. That banner is annoying and a drag on the system.
    Last edited by k4ever; 09/17/2011 at 10:54 PM.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew025 View Post
    I've tried it and it's kind of frustrating because it loads slower than loading a fresh page.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
    The pages load the same time on mine. The frustrating thing is that you have to let the page load for at least a second before switching views.

    Edit: Also the fonts on the first browser card becomes fuzzy when the second browser card is opened. It takes a second to go back into focus.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Maybe if iOS also handled multi-tasking like webOS, especially on the TouchPad, I would completely agree with you. Apple made a strategic decision not to include Flash. The lack of Flash or any other plug-ins means more apps that "add" that lost functionality. More apps means a higher app count. Also Apple gets a cut from the app sales. Even if the app is offered for free, Apple gets a cut of the content provided. They charge Amazon 30% for every book delivered to their "free" Kindle app on iOS. That 30% charge will eventually make it's way to you, the consumer, because content providers won't absorb those cost. They will just pass it on to you. If Apple added plug-in support their app count would go down and it would be harder to charge for or control the content going to the device. Welcome to the walled garden. Hope the plants smell good. Don't worry about getting stung by the bees.

    Edit: They also made a strategic decision to do their own sorry version of multi-tasking. Real multi-tasking drains battery power. They can advertise that their devices have better battery life until mobile batteries capacity catch up with demand. Then Apple will "magically" add better webOS like multi-tasking to their devices.
    This would have more meaning if not for the fact the walled garden is the only one making money. It's the other tablets that are getting stung, and will continue to get stung well into 2012. It's a shame, there is no real tablet market.
  9. #149  
    It's kind of sad that our Javascript performance sucks, considering that our entire GUI is built in Javascript.

    And, here you have, why HP believed the hardware sucks. It's because the Webkit version we have sucks.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    It sucked from day one and they never attemted to fix it. One reason why Webos fails because it is so slow and frustrating to use. In this day people want things to be instant. I read using ups webkit Webos was a hello of a lot faster.
    I think only us techies and tech reviewers care about things being instant. Normal folks don't care at all. I'm an auto enthusiast also and I care about a car's 0-60 speed, 1/4 mile run, and handling along with fuel economy. My wife and daughter don't car about that. As long as it "feels fast" and does what they want it to do, they are ok with it.

    I wasted 45 minutes of my life doing the browser speed test. They watched me for part of it because I used their devices, but after it was done neither of them asked me which was faster. They just grabbed their devices and happily walked out. Ignorance is bliss. It is also the way of the world. Nobody cares that the iPad's web browser is faster or webOS does better multi-tasking but us. Not too many care about the number of apps. The iPad is ahead of the pack because it was first and heavily advertised. People can't tell you how many apps it has, they just know that "there is an app for that", whatever that is. They know it by name because of the commercials they have seen.

    It is amazing how ignorant normal people are to tech products yet we sit around and type about the success of a product like the best technology really had something to do with it. I think we are the ignorant ones.
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I think only us techies and tech reviewers care about things being instant. Normal folks don't care at all. I'm an auto enthusiast also and I care about a car's 0-60 speed, 1/4 mile run, and handling along with fuel economy. My wife and daughter don't car about that. As long as it "feels fast" and does what they want it to do, they are ok with it.

    I wasted 45 minutes of my life doing the browser speed test. They watched me for part of it because I used their devices, but after it was done neither of them asked me which was faster. They just grabbed their devices and happily walked out. Ignorance is bliss. It is also the way of the world. Nobody cares that the iPad's web browser is faster or webOS does better multi-tasking but us. Not too many care about the number of apps. The iPad is ahead of the pack because it was first and heavily advertised. People can't tell you how many apps it has, they just know that "there is an app for that", whatever that is. They know it by name because of the commercials they have seen.
    I will also have to disagree. Speed does matter. When you start up a Tablet and it takes double the time(or more) than any other tablet(android or iOS) and many computers to start up, people start to wonder.
    When taps are not recognized, or the app takes several seconds to open, people notice.

    and your point about apps is confusing also...yes, while people do not know the exact number of apps...that chance that "there is an app for that" on the webOS is minimal compared to iOS/Android.
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I think only us techies and tech reviewers care about things being instant. Normal folks don't care at all. I'm an auto enthusiast also and I care about a car's 0-60 speed, 1/4 mile run, and handling along with fuel economy. My wife and daughter don't car about that. As long as it "feels fast" and does what they want it to do, they are ok with it.

    I wasted 45 minutes of my life doing the browser speed test. They watched me for part of it because I used their devices, but after it was done neither of them asked me which was faster. They just grabbed their devices and happily walked out. Ignorance is bliss. It is also the way of the world. Nobody cares that the iPad's web browser is faster or webOS does better multi-tasking but us. Not too many care about the number of apps. The iPad is ahead of the pack because it was first and heavily advertised. People can't tell you how many apps it has, they just know that "there is an app for that", whatever that is. They know it by name because of the commercials they have seen.

    It is amazing how ignorant normal people are to tech products yet we sit around and type about the success of a product like the best technology really had something to do with it. I think we are the ignorant ones.
    False. You personal life experiences do not reflect what the public at large wants, expects, needs. Speed matters, especially loading web pages on the go.
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    False. You personal life experiences do not reflect what the public at large wants, expects, needs. Speed matters, especially loading web pages on the go.

    Not false, I'm joe public and I couldn't give a stuff whether the thing is 5 microseconds faster with this configuration or that one. As long as it works well enough to get the job done I'm happy with it.
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by Steep View Post
    Not false, I'm joe public and I couldn't give a stuff whether the thing is 5 microseconds faster with this configuration or that one. As long as it works well enough to get the job done I'm happy with it.
    More like 5-30 seconds, depending on the app.
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by Steep View Post
    Not false, I'm joe public and I couldn't give a stuff whether the thing is 5 microseconds faster with this configuration or that one. As long as it works well enough to get the job done I'm happy with it.
    You are not joe public. You are PreCenetral poster Steep. You are part of joe public. There are 6.96 billion joe publics. Joe public is a collective. You're just a grain of sand in that number.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 09/18/2011 at 06:02 PM.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    There is something wrong with your hardware or connection because I can't really tell much of a difference in speed between the TouchPad's browser and Firefox, Chrome, Safari, or IE on my wife's laptop. I used the browser more than anything else. It is nowhere near as slow as you make it out to be. It does lack some features (like arranging bookmarks) but it is far from slow. I also have several smart phones. None of them are anywhere near as fast as the TouchPad's browser unless you are viewing mobile websites, which really do not count. BTW you can replace "www" with "m" in the TouchPad's url window if you want to get a mobile website.
    Your wife must have a REALLY REALLY old and REALLY REALLY cheap laptop REALLY REALLY infected with viruses and malware if you can't tell the difference between the Touchpad and her laptop. I mean I have demonstrated on video now multiple times that it is BEYOND noticeably slower than an original iPad which is clocked at nearly half the CPU speed and with only a single core.

    Also, I saw your post a couple posts later with the times posted for website loading. I will load ALL of those sites on video comparing the iPad 1 to the Touchpad and will show you the difference. Can't show you Android performance because its all I have to film with.
    Last edited by muyoso; 09/18/2011 at 07:17 PM.
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by muyoso View Post
    Your wife must have a REALLY REALLY old and REALLY REALLY cheap laptop REALLY REALLY infected with viruses and malware if you can't tell the difference between the Touchpad and her laptop. I mean I have demonstrated on video now multiple times that it is BEYOND noticeably slower than an original iPad which is clocked at nearly half the CPU speed and with only a single core.

    Also, I saw your post a couple posts later with the times posted for website loading. I will load ALL of those sites on video comparing the iPad 1 to the Touchpad and will show you the difference. Can't show you Android performance because its all I have to film with.
    LOL. Maybe they are just used to slow.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 09/18/2011 at 07:39 PM.
  18. #158  
    Alright, here are a BUNCH of videos I just recorded. The ones with the Android phone in them are pretty crappy due to having to record using a 3yo Windows Mobile phone, but you will get the point.

    Here is the first one. You can see that the webOS browser does NOT open faster than Miren on Android. It opens with the task manager open on Android so I cannot be accused of cheating, yes it is that quick. Then the Android phone demolishes the Touchpad at loading Engadget. Then the Android phone shows off the instant load back and forward features that Miren has. Nice not to have to reload the webpage everytime you want to hit the back button.


    Here is the second one. In this video we start out loading precentral.net and then go to loading politico.com. Touchpad loses both easily. Then I go ahead and show the awesome panorama feature that Miren has where you can swipe left to go forward and swipe right to go back, instantly of course. Who wants to load webpages twice?


    So IDK what k4ever is talking about, but its not based on anything I have come close to observing. The Touchpads browser is awful, and there is no reason it should be. I'll had much higher quality videos comparing the ipad and Touchpad doing similar loading tests in a few minutes below.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    LOL. Maybe they are just used to slow.
    Both of you are wrong. If you read my speed test you will see that her laptop smoked the TouchPad when the Touch's JavaScript was on. When the JavaScript was off the TouchPad was on par or better than the laptop. I also posted the specs for the laptop and it is no slouch. My statement was that she did not care. Not one bit whether the TouchPad was slower or the laptop was faster. She could give a rats behind about it. She is not a techie.

    You can't win or lose with you guys because you are irrational. A user posted here stating that he/she did not care about the speed and was berated. Face it, the average user doesn't care. Period. You and I care and we waste our Sundays writing about it because we are techies. We also care that an iPad is called an iPad, a TouchPad is called a TouchPad, and the Android OS is called Android not Droid. Speed only matters when it gets in the way of using the device and arguing over whether or not the average user will notice a few seconds is asinine. My car gets 0-60 in 7.2 seconds. How many of you non-car enthusiast care about that or can even quote how fast your car will make it to that speed? I bet the number of people who don't know and don't care outnumber me 100 to 1. Same with the number of people who care about the speed of the browser or the number of apps or any of the other things we chose to argue about here. Just think about it. IE is the slowest browser out there yet it still has 60% of the browser market. It was a slow as heck when it had 90% of the market. People who use it don't care. You and I do.
    MobileBill23 likes this.
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Both of you are wrong. If you read my speed test you will see that her laptop smoked the TouchPad when the Touch's JavaScript was on. When the JavaScript was off the TouchPad was on par or better than the laptop. I also posted the specs for the laptop and it is no slouch. My statement was that she did not care. Not one bit whether the TouchPad was slower or the laptop was faster. She could give a rats behind about it. She is not a techie.

    You can't win or lose with you guys because you are irrational. A user posted here stating that he/she did not care about the speed and was berated. Face it, the average user doesn't care. Period. You and I care and we waste our Sundays writing about it because we are techies. We also care that an iPad is called an iPad, a TouchPad is called a TouchPad, and the Android OS is called Android not Droid. Speed only matters when it gets in the way of using the device and arguing over whether or not the average user will notice a few seconds is asinine. My car gets 0-60 in 7.2 seconds. How many of you non-car enthusiast care about that or can even quote how fast your car will make it to that speed? I bet the number of people who don't know and don't care outnumber me 100 to 1. Same with the number of people who care about the speed of the browser or the number of apps or any of the other things we chose to argue about here. Just think about it. IE is the slowest browser out there yet it still has 60% of the browser market. It was a slow as heck when it had 90% of the market. People who use it don't care. You and I do.
    So you admit after fighting it for 9 pages that the touchpad browser stinks and now you are transitioning into "well most people don't care anyway"??

    BTW, here is a Touchpad vs iPad browser test I just ran with the sites you chose. Funny thing, the iPad downloads and renders the entire politico page before the Touchpad displays its first element.

    Last edited by muyoso; 09/18/2011 at 08:22 PM.
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