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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
    Yes, I am not arguing with you here. My point was -- the 3000 plus apps we have could be way more than enough (it is quite a pain to try to find something decent among the 200 K+ the big guys have). The top 10 Android apps account for 80% of usage. The numbers are similar for iOS. The problem is that that quite a few important apps are missing. HP had the chance to make the Touchpad something special, great for many people. Now it still is the best tablet, but it does take a lot more work and know-how to make it do everything I want it to.

    As for the Bluray HD-DVD fight, the studios decided that, not the consumers. And Sony owns a studio. But it won't matter in a year or two, everything will be delivered over the net.
    well i 100% agree that getting the big apps would have helped immensely. I always thought they really needed to just pay for all the biggest apps. And i mean like name the 90 most visable app names and fund the app development. like every espn app, hbo, pick the big banks, the big tv stations, fund a netflix app. fund audiogalaxy, etc.Then hope that helps.

    but i find it very easy to find iphone apps i'm interested in. Much more so then webos apps. One because itunes allows me to search on a desktop which is much faster then the way palm did it only on a phone. Itunes is not exactly swift software but the app store does have sorting by categorey. listings of top free, top paid, top grossing. I found it quite easy to just check all like 30 categories for top free apps and find great apps i'd be interested in. That would totally cover the basics. Then i could delve deeper some other time. So i think with all that categorization, though the software is bad its much easier to find stuff in itunes then in the webos catalog. I can't speak for it on tablets as i haven't tried that much and i don't own a tablet. I did a test and just decided to pretend i had an ipod and pick apps from itunes that i buy if they were available. In less then thirty minutes i had 50 apps and only about 6 evernote, facebook, and a twitter app were even available on webos. That's just a huge advantage. Its' even more pronounced when you get into more niche apps. Like i like soccer. There's a Four Four Two soccer magazine apps. Truth is that app was never ever coming to webos. I don't even know if it's on Android. So once you get more specific your chances of finding an app on webos sort of shrank.

    But point was that sea of 200+k apps i had zero problem locating interesting things i want in thirty minutes. Oh and every single app was free. By contrast i barely use the apps on my pre cause there just aren't the options, partly cause i'm on 1.4.5 and i've been left behind and facebook now sucks. But i can only speak for me. It's not hard to find something that interests me in the apple apps store even just sticking to free stuff. sure you may have more stuff to sift through but to me that's kinda like a quarter back problem in football. i'd rather have more options and a hard choice then no option.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by muyoso View Post
    About Android:



    Abject lie. Miren is a full featured amazing browser and never had flash crash once. Opera Mobile is by far the smoothest and most polished browser, but lacks features of other browsers. Of course the stock browser on most devices is also great. Its obvious from his admission that he bought a crappy Android 2.x tablet and he is forming his opinions on the entire platform based on his frankentablet. Also, just for the record, there is well over a dozen browsers. I reviewed 13 of them here:13 Android Browsers Compared and Benchmarked - xda-developers

    Funny:


    Did you ever try the free app "Adfree"??? LOL.




    Then you would be wrong. Yes the Touchpad has flash, which the iPad is also fully capable of with apps like iSwifter and Pufin, but the Touchpad's browser is the ONLY choice you have on WebOS. Its awful. Its slower than safari on my 800mhz ipad 1, while running on the same wifi network with all speed patches and overclocked at 1.5ghz. That is just pathetic. The iOS browser also isn't buggy either. And there are alternative browsers on iOS if you want more features like tabs, gestures, multiple finger taps performing different operations, etc. The experience is SO much better on iOS I don't know how you can make this statement seriously.
    So you never heard of Advanced Browser for webOS? It's in the app catalog if you search for browser.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    So you never heard of Advanced Browser for webOS? It's in the app catalog if you search for browser.
    Not only have I heard of it, but I have been using it since I bought this thing. I don't consider Advanced browser a different browser than stock frankly. Its the exact same browser, just with 1 feature added, tabs. Its like me taking the stock browser and adding the ability to sort bookmarks and then publishing it as a new browser.

    Where is firefox, Opera mobile/mini, Miren, Xscope, DolphinHD, iCabMobile, Atomic Browser, etc, etc, etc. Albeit, the iPad browsers use the exact same rendering engine as Safari because thats how Apple mandates it, but the browsers add RIDICULOUSLY more features including tabs, gesture controls, multi finger tap controls, dropbox integration, etc.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  4. HansTWN's Avatar
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    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    Like i like soccer. There's a Four Four Two soccer magazine apps. Truth is that app was never ever coming to webos.
    This is a good example where you wouldn't really need an app having the touchpad. Can't you just go directly to the regular PC website, log in and read? That is what I do with newspaperdirect.

    It is the same for the Android apps for all the tech websites (engadget, xda-developers, etc). I have just stopped using their apps because they show so much less information than the regular websites. It only makes sense to use them when you have a phone with a sub 4" screen. Even on my 5" Dell Streak the full websites provide a much better experience.
    Last edited by HansTWN; 09/15/2011 at 10:40 PM.
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    #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by snorri788 View Post
    The iPad is a status symbol. People buy them because other people have them and they want to keep up with the joneses. I know quite a few people that bought them and said "I wanted one, but I don't know why".
    I used to say this kind of thing too, I'd chuck a "The white earbud brigade and their overpriced fashion-trinkets" comment into a forum and wait for responses.

    I used to buy iRiver MP3 players and was smug in my knowledge I did not own any Apple product. A kind of reverse-snobbery I guess.

    Then I bought an iPod Touch on a whim with my Christmas bonus a couple of years ago and I can honestly say it has never let me down and has been worth every cent. My motivations were I wanted a new gadget and could see possibilities for all kinds applications around the place from musical equipment control and synthesis to some gaming and all points in-between.

    And, if you knew me, you'd know I don't try to keep up with anyone and have never been, or likely to be, fashionable.

    And I don't regret my TP purchase also, it's going to do fine service for me and my family for years.

    To say everyone who buys an iThing is motivated by snobbery is not true and smacks of an automatic defence by someone who has not actually tried the product for any length of time.

    Some people buy things because they will do a solid job for them, not to flash around.

    In any case, having a TouchPad is also kind of cool these days ... a bit like buying a Ford when everyone else is chasing the next Beemer <Dodgy analogy ends>
    barkerja and sinsin07 like this.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadVim View Post

    In any case, having a TouchPad is also kind of cool these days ... a bit like buying a Ford when everyone else is chasing the next Bimmer <Dodgy analogy ends>
    Fixed


    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
  7. DeadVim's Avatar
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    #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew025 View Post
    Fixed


    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
    I was going to take you to task for that and then I read this:
    BMW Car Club of BC - bimmer vs beemer perspective

    So I shall consider myself educated
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadVim View Post
    I was going to take you to task for that and then I read this:
    BMW Car Club of BC - bimmer vs beemer perspective

    So I shall consider myself educated
    Lol anytime pal

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
    This is a good example where you wouldn't really need an app having the touchpad. Can't you just go directly to the regular PC website, log in and read? That is what I do with newspaperdirect.

    It is the same for the Android apps for all the tech websites (engadget, xda-developers, etc). I have just stopped using their apps because they show so much less information than the regular websites. It only makes sense to use them when you have a phone with a sub 4" screen. Even on my 5" Dell Streak the full websites provide a much better experience.
    Need is irrelevant. It's about what i want. I want to use apps for many things even if they have a website. Need isn't the point. you don't need a text messager. There is a phone on a phone. you could just call people and speak instead of texting. people want to do it so you have to give a app. You don't need a zoom on a camera. You could just move closer with your feet. You don't need lots of things on a phone. You don't need an email app. you can just log into gmail but people demand it. Claiming you don't need it misses the point. And i have a phone so, and i know this is a touchpad thread, but my point was about the importance of apps. The point i was making was that on one platform more apps means more choice. On another it doesn't. And the big thing is is its a touch device. why would i want to go to a website not designed for finger use even on a touchpad? But specifically on a tiny screen phone? I just don't want to. And i'd prefer the option not to have to over being forced to use a browser. And then there is the other idea that the app. Trying to tell people they don't want what they want to me is kinda like trying to ice skate uphill.

    And truth is I can go to a website on any tablet or phone. you need to differentiate your product and it doesn't differentiate your product to say "we don't have that." I mean if i have choice of devices and one has a browser and apps and the other has just a browser why would most people pic the one with just a browser? they won't they 'll pick the one that gives them the most choice.

    And when people want to claim apps are not important they love to tout that you can just uses the browser but when it comes to selling a product that's not a good argument for your device. It's a losing argument to say "buy our product because we offer you less features. The other guy has apps and a browser but buy ours because we only have a browser." That is a horrible selling point.

    And there is a basic point i made already. Every app is not just a website. If i want a garmin navigation it's not a solution to say "but you can just use the website." It doesn't work like that. I'm i'm looking turn my laptop into a guitar amp modeler with something like garageband or amplitube you can't just say go to the website. The website is not a guitar amp modeler. And take Amplitube, it was never coming to webos either.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
    andrew025 likes this.
  10. #130  
    The apps that are needed the most (by me at least) aren't available by just using the browser. Like FTP, RDP... stuff like that.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
    snip...The Touchpad (especially with Ubuntu) is more like a computer, you can always find a way to work around it. Case in point -- no Zinio app, no Newspaperdirect --- but I can make them both work in Ubuntu. Yes, "finding a work-around" is not what most people want.
    No. Out of the box, the Touchpad is just a tablet. Modifying it to make it more like a computer and running other OSes doesn't count. Your comparison of modified device to a out of the box device is bogus.

    What's your work around for this:
    M-Audio reveals Keystation Mini 32
    Fostex release AR-4i
    iRiffPort coming for guitarists
    Line 6 Unveils MIDI Mobilizer II
    iRig family expands
    Block Station for iPad
    Nanos trio v2 in bound
    dJay for iPad
    Numark iDjay Live, DJ Controller for iPad
    30-pin to HDMI

    And that's just a few of the many other peripherals you can attach. There is no website equivalent. I can see a cop-out coming.

    One thing about apps vs website equivalents. There are banking websites. However the app equivalent has notifications. Does the website version give notifications? I don't mean text messages. Can you make a check deposit sitting on your couch? In your car?

    In the tech support world, a "workaround" is term used when offering an alternate solution when something is not working as expected. If webos had apps, there would be less need for "workarounds".
    Last edited by sinsin07; 09/16/2011 at 07:39 PM.
  12. HansTWN's Avatar
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    #132  
    I wasn't arguing that apps are not important --- I was arguing against the original premise "apps are everything". My point being that people have been so conditioned to only look for apps that they don't consider that the website works even better in many cases. And I also said that HP dropped the ball, they should have paid people to put the biggest apps on the platform.

    Do I want more apps, hell yes! (My dream is that the people that are trying to get Android apps to work in a card under WebOS will be successful. That would make the Touchpad the perfect device.) Do I think that the iPad is better because it has more apps? No. In the end it is all question of your personal needs and wants -- can you do what you want to do now. Are those trade offs worth it for getting a better OS and having full PC functionality? You decide. Ranting about the lack of apps won't help you (you knew what you were getting into), you either give your Touchpad to someone who can appreciate it and get an Android or iOS tablet or you find ways to do what you want to do right now. I was just giving suggestions for those that want to stay with the platform. I will be digging out an old laptop of mine and put it to good use as a streaming and RDP device to run programs I can't now. With a little creativity you can turn your $100/150 device into a tablet that puts any $800 device to shame. Instead of ranting you might as well sell this thing. What does help is if everybody writes to the app makers and tells them "we want this". Zinio is going ahead with a WebOS now due to the many requests.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
    I wasn't arguing that apps are not important --- I was arguing against the original premise "apps are everything". My point being that people have been so conditioned to only look for apps that they don't consider that the website works even better in many cases. And I also said that HP dropped the ball, they should have paid people to put the biggest apps on the platform.

    Do I want more apps, hell yes! (My dream is that the people that are trying to get Android apps to work in a card under WebOS will be successful. That would make the Touchpad the perfect device.) Do I think that the iPad is better because it has more apps? No. In the end it is all question of your personal needs and wants -- can you do what you want to do now. Are those trade offs worth it for getting a better OS and having full PC functionality? You decide. Ranting about the lack of apps won't help you (you knew what you were getting into), you either give your Touchpad to someone who can appreciate it and get an Android or iOS tablet or you find ways to do what you want to do right now. I was just giving suggestions for those that want to stay with the platform. I will be digging out an old laptop of mine and put it to good use as a streaming and RDP device to run programs I can't now. With a little creativity you can turn your $100/150 device into a tablet that puts any $800 device to shame. Instead of ranting you might as well sell this thing. What does help is if everybody writes to the app makers and tells them "we want this". Zinio is going ahead with a WebOS now due to the many requests.
    I couldn't agree with you more. A lot of "apps" sprung up in the Apple App Store just to cover the functionality lost by not having Flash support in the browser. These apps aren't really apps as they are band-aids to fix a wound create by the lack of plugin support. A lot of "apps" sprung up in the Android market to fix problems with the UI. Having to dig 3 and 4 levels down into a menu to turn on/off Wifi and Bluetooth is cumbersome. This led to the creation of "widgets" and their addition to the Android Market to make those task easier. Widgets were also designed to run minimized versions of a program to keep it on the screen, since there are no windows or cards in Android.

    Android and iOS users are used to these so called apps and look at webOS' lack of these "apps" as a minus. However, the design of webOS and the functionality of the browser negates the need for these "apps". No one complains about not having a Hulu App on their computer (even though there actually is one that few people use) because they can view Hulu from any modern web browser. The same with NetFlix, Vudu, Pandora, etc..

    I feel that before a new user, Android user, or iOS user complains about the lack of apps on the TouchPad, they should first take the time to see if their favorite service works in the browser. If it does there is little reason to complain or require an app. Speaking about the browser, please take into account that there are reasons that the browser is a tad bit slower than on iOS and Android. Most of us would rather have stability and functionality over speed. The iPad's default browser is fast, but it is totally useless to me because of the lack of Flash. Android's default browser is capable, but the UI is a little ugly and none of the Android browsers I've used have been stable when it comes to Flash support. The constant crashes are disheartening and makes me not want to use Flash on Android at all. The default browser on webOS and the Advanced browser need some additional features but they are rock solid stable (you can watch entire movies on Crackle.com and not have it crash).

    If there is a service that doesn't work "out the box" look for work arounds in the forums. This is the real reason for these forums, not the bickering and belittling of the OS or it's faithful users. If a work around does not exist, then you can complain to the community, the app developer, or whoever will listen and make a difference. Trust me, most of us will be right there complaining with you.

    The worst thing a person can do is expect webOS to behave like Android or iOS or even have the exact same app count. If they behaved exactly the same way, why have different operating systems? You don't expect a Mercedes to drive the same as a Toyota or a Mazda or a Chevy? They are all cars but they have unique characteristics that define them. Some things are built into the car, some things require accessories to achieve a desired driving experience. The same goes with webOS, iOS, and Android. I feel that a new user should familiarize themselves with the UI to understand why things work the way they do. Just because the app animates itself in a card first instead of going to full screen does not mean that it is slower to run.

    That being said, I would like to see a lot more apps on my TouchPad to handle the services not provided by the OS or the browser. I definitely need an IBM Lotus Forms type viewer for my job. I would like some more 3d games, particularly some RTS games. I would like to see Silverlight or Moonlight support built into the browser instead of a dedicated NetFlix app. However, I will take the app if Silverlight or Moonlight is not doable.

    Your wants or needs may vary, but I think it is more productive to go after the developers for this support instead of HP or the webOS community. Your voice and money matter more to the developers and are a better indicator of demand. Also, expecting something for nothing is childish. These folks have to eat and take care of themselves and/or their families just like you do. To want them to spend days/weeks/months working on an app just to give it to you for free is unrealistic. Bottom line is you got to put your money where your mouth is.
  14. #134  
    All the TP is missing app-wise is Docs2Go/ThinkFreeOffice and Realplayer
    as those are my most commonly used apps on my android tablet.
    Other than that, this thing is Sweet!
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Ama View Post
    All the TP is missing app-wise is Docs2Go/ThinkFreeOffice and Realplayer
    as those are my most commonly used apps on my android tablet.
    Other than that, this thing is Sweet!
    Do the apps that are currently on the TouchPad, QuickOffice and the varies multimedia players, have the features that you need from these apps or are you just more comfortable using these apps?
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I couldn't agree with you more. A lot of "apps" sprung up in the Apple App Store just to cover the functionality lost by not having Flash support in the browser. These apps aren't really apps as they are band-aids to fix a wound create by the lack of plugin support. A lot of "apps" sprung up in the Android market to fix problems with the UI. Having to dig 3 and 4 levels down into a menu to turn on/off Wifi and Bluetooth is cumbersome. This led to the creation of "widgets" and their addition to the Android Market to make those task easier. Widgets were also designed to run minimized versions of a program to keep it on the screen, since there are no windows or cards in Android.

    Android and iOS users are used to these so called apps and look at webOS' lack of these "apps" as a minus. However, the design of webOS and the functionality of the browser negates the need for these "apps". No one complains about not having a Hulu App on their computer (even though there actually is one that few people use) because they can view Hulu from any modern web browser. The same with NetFlix, Vudu, Pandora, etc.. ...snip
    All the above just to say one thing, with webos and flash, you don't need app equivalents. Your focus is on one type of app, apps that have website equivalents that use flash. However that is not all there is to apps. Thus one of the reasons for the popularity of the other OSes.
  17. cgk
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    #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    feel that before a new user, Android user, or iOS user complains about the lack of apps on the TouchPad, they should first take the time to see if their favorite service works in the browser. If it does there is little reason to complain or require an app. Speaking about the browser, please take into account that there are reasons that the browser is a tad bit slower than on iOS and Android. Most of us would rather have stability and functionality over speed. The iPad's default browser is fast, but it is totally useless to me because of the lack of Flash. Android's default browser is capable, but the UI is a little ugly and none of the Android browsers I've used have been stable when it comes to Flash support. The constant crashes are disheartening and makes me not want to use Flash on Android at all. The default browser on webOS and the Advanced browser need some additional features but they are rock solid stable (you can watch entire movies on Crackle.com and not have it crash).
    The browser on the touchpad is shocking, it loads slower than the browser on my cheap $90 800mhz phone and lack basic features - it is like a browser from 2008 not 2011. The advantages of flash would be great but I had to turn it off to get the BBC website to load...

    The experience makes me more thankful for apps not less.
  18. #138  
    You know what's fun? Trying to hit targets in Flash elements designed for a cursor with my finger. It's almost like a game in itself!
  19. #139  
    I think it's good iOS doesn't have flash. There may not have been a touchpad, or even fewer than exist now.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    The browser on the touchpad is shocking, it loads slower than the browser on my cheap $90 800mhz phone and lack basic features - it is like a browser from 2008 not 2011. The advantages of flash would be great but I had to turn it off to get the BBC website to load...

    The experience makes me more thankful for apps not less.
    There is something wrong with your hardware or connection because I can't really tell much of a difference in speed between the TouchPad's browser and Firefox, Chrome, Safari, or IE on my wife's laptop. I used the browser more than anything else. It is nowhere near as slow as you make it out to be. It does lack some features (like arranging bookmarks) but it is far from slow. I also have several smart phones. None of them are anywhere near as fast as the TouchPad's browser unless you are viewing mobile websites, which really do not count. BTW you can replace "www" with "m" in the TouchPad's url window if you want to get a mobile website.

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