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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    To put this number into context because a lot of people here think it's a big number - in the UK, HTC has sold three million handsets. That's one handset maker in a single country.
    Any developer would also have to consider also that a fair number of that 3.7 million are still, like me, on a 1.4.5 device that isn't going to be a able to run anything you make should your app be for cell phones. And if it's for tablet's it's only hitting 1.2 million people. A user base that without drastic change and someone making devices can't grow. That's not the most persuasive for big companies or developers.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by goced364 View Post
    Wow that was quick had the Hulu patch 2 weeks, worked great woke up this morning no hulu, reinstalled patch still no work was good till about 3am, did the folks at hulu catch on,please find another fix please comment and help love hulu on touchpad.
    Fix=Android or iOS. Otherwise you're playing the iOS jailbreak game.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I use footnotes and referencing a lot, it's broken every document I've never with it. That's not the worse of it - - it has a bug in that it will crash randomly losing all of the material that you are working on, if it hasn't happened yet then you've been lucky - but don't take my word for it, the official precentral review had this to say (and the comments are full of people with the same problem):

    I stand corrected then, I don't use the app for anything so critical or as heavily and hadn't come across any of those problems.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Steep View Post
    What is it you want it to do that it won't do? I can open/create/print/email/save documents and spreadsheets without any bother.
    How do you change print perspective?

    I received a power point in Landscape, I can only get it to print in Portrait.
  5. HansTWN's Avatar
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by xpl View Post
    In my opinion apps are indeed everything. The iPad woudnt be so succesful without the Appstore.
    For the giant ipod they call the iPad apps are indeed everything. After all, iOS is nothing but an app launcher. The Touchpad (especially with Ubuntu) is more like a computer, you can always find a way to work around it. Case in point -- no Zinio app, no Newspaperdirect --- but I can make them both work in Ubuntu. Yes, "finding a work-around" is not what most people want. But with Apple products, if the powers that be have decided that something shouldn't work, then there is no way to make it work --- or at least you need major surgery to to it.

    Would I love to have more apps? Yes, of course. But not website apps. Website apps usually offer a lot less than the full website versions. And if someone offered me an Ipad2 in exchange for my Touchpad (and I wasn't allowed to sell the iPad!) I would not want it. WebOS is so much more enjoyable to use than the iPad. Apple has created a dumbed down and locked down OS for technophobes. Just turning WiFi on and off takes 6 clicks. Slow and inefficient -- the only point is to make it as simple as possible. A brilliant decision from a marketing point of view since those technophobes are a vast untapped market.

    In general I avoid apps whenever I can -- most of them are just a way of locking you into a system or to make up for lacking functionality.

    So if somebody is into gaming, then forget the Touchpad. Browsing on the Touchpad is far superior to the Ipad2, though.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
    For the giant ipod they call the iPad apps are indeed everything. After all, iOS is nothing but an app launcher. The Touchpad (especially with Ubuntu) is more like a computer, you can always find a way to work around it. Case in point -- no Zinio app, no Newspaperdirect --- but I can make them both work in Ubuntu. Yes, "finding a work-around" is not what most people want. But with Apple products, if the powers that be have decided that something shouldn't work, then there is no way to make it work --- or at least you need major surgery to to it.

    Would I love to have more apps? Yes, of course. But not website apps. Website apps usually offer a lot less than the full website versions. And if someone offered me an Ipad2 in exchange for my Touchpad (and I wasn't allowed to sell the iPad!) I would not want it. WebOS is so much more enjoyable to use than the iPad. Apple has created a dumbed down and locked down OS for technophobes. Just turning WiFi on and off takes 6 clicks. Slow and inefficient -- the only point is to make it as simple as possible. A brilliant decision from a marketing point of view since those technophobes are a vast untapped market.

    In general I avoid apps whenever I can -- most of them are just a way of locking you into a system or to make up for lacking functionality.

    So if somebody is into gaming, then forget the Touchpad. Browsing on the Touchpad is far superior to the Ipad2, though.
    Or you could jailbreak your iPad and then most of your complaints are solved. On one hand installing ubuntu is an acceptable solution to lacking apps on the Touchpad, but jailbreaking your iPad which takes 30 seconds and 3 mouse clicks is just too much. . . .

    There is no need to put down the iPad to assure yourself the Touchpad is better. Whatever you like, you like.
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  7. HansTWN's Avatar
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    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by muyoso View Post
    Or you could jailbreak your iPad and then most of your complaints are solved. On one hand installing ubuntu is an acceptable solution to lacking apps on the Touchpad, but jailbreaking your iPad which takes 30 seconds and 3 mouse clicks is just too much. . . .

    There is no need to put down the iPad to assure yourself the Touchpad is better. Whatever you like, you like.
    You have a point. Of course, with Ubuntu you have full computer functionality. When jailbreaking the iPad you just have a few added extras that WebOS and Android users enjoy out of the box....
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
    For the giant ipod they call the iPad apps are indeed everything. After all, iOS is nothing but an app launcher. The Touchpad (especially with Ubuntu) is more like a computer, you can always find a way to work around it. Case in point -- no Zinio app, no Newspaperdirect --- but I can make them both work in Ubuntu. Yes, "finding a work-around" is not what most people want. But with Apple products, if the powers that be have decided that something shouldn't work, then there is no way to make it work --- or at least you need major surgery to to it.

    Would I love to have more apps? Yes, of course. But not website apps. Website apps usually offer a lot less than the full website versions. And if someone offered me an Ipad2 in exchange for my Touchpad (and I wasn't allowed to sell the iPad!) I would not want it. WebOS is so much more enjoyable to use than the iPad. Apple has created a dumbed down and locked down OS for technophobes. Just turning WiFi on and off takes 6 clicks. Slow and inefficient -- the only point is to make it as simple as possible. A brilliant decision from a marketing point of view since those technophobes are a vast untapped market.

    In general I avoid apps whenever I can -- most of them are just a way of locking you into a system or to make up for lacking functionality.

    So if somebody is into gaming, then forget the Touchpad. Browsing on the Touchpad is far superior to the Ipad2, though.
    You sound like a very techy person. Early adopter, comfortable using linux and stuff. Don't bat an eye at hacking your pre or replacing kernals. I think however you and people like you are not the larger market that the Touchpad would have had to appeal to be successful. Me i'm pretty average techwise and I've never even seen Ubuntu. I know it's an OS right? I even had to google ubuntu to find out about it. And looking at it i get that's it's an O.S. and it's cool to add it and dual boot. You get more functionality. I totally get that. Hell if i could get android on my pre i'd dual boot. But in one sense all that added complexity of a desktop OS is why the vast majority of people buy a tablet over a laptop. They are not looking for that very aspect that you consider a plus. The full O.S. and all the complexity. Hell one of my criticisms of Android on the Xoom was actually that it made me feel like i was running windows with it's arrows launching stuff in the lower left. I would guess there are many others that got a similar feeling. I'm Not claiming you're wrong to like those thing but rather the ability to add Ubuntu would not be a massive selling point to most potential consumers in the tablet market. Not nearly as big as a robust app catalog would be to most customers. For example i think if you polled potential customers and asked them what is a more appealing feature 1. Can install Ubuntu or 2. has a Netflix app i'd bet number 2 trounces number 1. Speculation yes but i think its an educated piece of speculation grounded in the general popularity of Netflix compared to a niche O.S.

    And really I don't see webos as anything but an app launcher too.

    Update: Ubuntu is related to linux isn't it. lol. I didn't know that when i wrote my second sentence. lol. I just saw that penquin logo next to ubuntu somewhere.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 09/14/2011 at 11:43 PM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
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  9. HansTWN's Avatar
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    #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    You sound like a very techy person. Early adopter, comfortable using linux and stuff. Don't bat an eye at hacking your pre or replacing kernals. I think however you and people like you are not the larger market that the Touchpad would have had to appeal to be successful. Me i'm pretty average techwise and I've never even seen Ubuntu. I know it's an OS right? I even had to google ubuntu to find out about it. And looking at it i get that's it's an O.S. and it's cool to add it and dual boot. You get more functionality. I totally get that. Hell if i could get android on my pre i'd dual boot. But in one sense all that added complexity of a desktop OS is why the vast majority of people buy a tablet over a laptop. They are not looking for that very aspect that you consider a plus. The full O.S. and all the complexity. Hell one of my criticisms of Android on the Xoom was actually that it made me feel like i was running windows with it's arrows launching stuff in the lower left. I would guess there are many others that got a similar feeling. I'm Not claiming you're wrong to like those thing but rather the ability to add Ubuntu would not be a massive selling point to most potential consumers in the tablet market. Not nearly as big as a robust app catalog would be to most customers. For example i think if you polled potential customers and asked them what is a more appealing feature 1. Can install Ubuntu or 2. has a Netflix app i'd bet number 2 trounces number 1. Speculation yes but i think its an educated piece of speculation grounded in the general popularity of Netflix compared to a niche O.S.

    And really I don't see webos as anything but an app launcher too.

    Update: Ubuntu is related to linux isn't it. lol. I didn't know that when i wrote my second sentence. lol. I just saw that penquin logo next to ubuntu somewhere.
    Ubuntu is a version of Linux. Actually I am not comfortable using it, I have used it and now I have to familiarize myself again --- though with the automated setup provided in this forum it pretty much comes out to being as easy to install and use as Windows.

    I basically said the same thing you did, the Ipads are for people with no interest in technical matters. And that is the vast majority -- it is obviously ideal to have customers who just demand good looking design, are willing to pay high prices for reduced functionality and pay even more to add apps that make up for what's missing. Apple sure is in the sweet spot right now.

    But, for example, my wife is someone who doesn't care how a gadget works, just what she can do with it. I set up the Touchpad with RDP through Ubuntu to her office desktop and she was, with virtually no instruction, much more comfortable with WebOS for browsing, etc than with iOS on her iphone4.

    HP has botched it, no argument from me here. Apple knows that the out-of-the-box experience matters. You need a little bit of interest in technical matters to set up the Touchpad correctly, and yes, some things are still missing. If HP had taken this just a little further, paid people like Hulu, Netflix and others to add the most used apps, have more languages and include basics like RDP, etc. then it would have been a slamdunk. It would have been superior to IOS in almost every single way. Of course, Apple's marketing machine would have kept the iPad on top, anyway.

    I use iOS, Android, and WebOS. And WebOS is by far the quickest to perform most tasks and the most elegant. Ever tried listening to the news (and flash-based at that) playing in the background while using some other app on the iPad? I didn't think so, multitasking is important. Neither iOS nor WebOS have any learning curve -- the problem is just that HP pushed this out the door with some of the functionality that people need most missing. That is the main reason apps are important.
    Last edited by HansTWN; 09/15/2011 at 01:35 AM.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
    Ubuntu is a version of Linux. Actually I am not comfortable using it, I have used it and now I have to familiarize myself again --- though with the automated setup provided in this forum it pretty much comes out to being as easy to install and use as Windows.

    I basically said the same thing you did, the Ipads are for people with no interest in technical matters. And that is the vast majority -- it is obviously ideal to have customers who just demand good looking design, are willing to pay high prices for reduced functionality and pay even more to add apps that make up for what's missing. Apple sure is in the sweet spot right now.

    But, for example, my wife is someone who doesn't care how a gadget works, just what she can do with it. I set up the Touchpad with RDP through Ubuntu to her office desktop and she was, with virtually no instruction, much more comfortable with WebOS for browsing, etc than with iOS on her iphone4.

    HP has botched it, no argument from me here. Apple knows that the out-of-the-box experience matters. You need a little bit of interest in technical matters to set up the Touchpad correctly, and yes, some things are still missing. If HP had taken this just a little further, paid people like Hulu, Netflix and others to add the most used apps, have more languages and include basics like RDP, etc. then it would have been a slamdunk. It would have been superior to IOS in almost every single way. Of course, Apple's marketing machine would have kept the iPad on top, anyway.

    I use iOS, Android, and WebOS. And WebOS is by far the quickest to perform most tasks and the most elegant. Ever tried listening to the news (and flash-based at that) playing in the background while using some other app on the iPad? I didn't think so, multitasking is important. Neither iOS nor WebOS have any learning curve -- the problem is just that HP pushed this out the door with some of the functionality that people need most missing. That is the main reason apps are important.
    i disagree with the last point. I had a learning curve with webos. I had to get used to not having a dedicated back button as i was used to. I think if you switch o.s. there is always a learning curve.

    but to you're wife's point, i too don't care how something works i care what it does. And apps add to what does. I get that the O.S. multitasks and stuff but the other options are good enough for most people. They are "elegant" enough for most people. And for my money the best product is gonna be the one that appeals to the most people in the market. And in that i think HP and Palm both failed. And i'd point to some of the comments in the palm cast and the roundtable following the ending of devices where you had lots of webos loyalist point out shortcomings of design and thickness, substantial webos software flaws, and saying how it's really hard to lay them side by side with an ipad 2 and all its' options and convince people to buy a touchpad. To me that's a big argument that both hardware and software where clearly not good enough. I'm not saying it's all bad or that it's wrong for you or you're wrong to be satisfied. But to me the bottom line is if enough people don't want to buy your item and only a small niche does there is a major problem. A major failing. Kinda like HD-dvd (which sadly i had) or mnidiscs. But on the related point of apps. I just think that if the market wants apps it's not an answer to say "you don't need apps." I wouldn't say they are everything. But i think they are a very big thing.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
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    #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
    Ubuntu is a version of Linux. Actually I am not comfortable using it, I have used it and now I have to familiarize myself again --- though with the automated setup provided in this forum it pretty much comes out to being as easy to install and use as Windows.

    I basically said the same thing you did, the Ipads are for people with no interest in technical matters. And that is the vast majority -- it is obviously ideal to have customers who just demand good looking design, are willing to pay high prices for reduced functionality and pay even more to add apps that make up for what's missing. Apple sure is in the sweet spot right now.

    But, for example, my wife is someone who doesn't care how a gadget works, just what she can do with it. I set up the Touchpad with RDP through Ubuntu to her office desktop and she was, with virtually no instruction, much more comfortable with WebOS for browsing, etc than with iOS on her iphone4.

    HP has botched it, no argument from me here. Apple knows that the out-of-the-box experience matters. You need a little bit of interest in technical matters to set up the Touchpad correctly, and yes, some things are still missing. If HP had taken this just a little further, paid people like Hulu, Netflix and others to add the most used apps, have more languages and include basics like RDP, etc. then it would have been a slamdunk. It would have been superior to IOS in almost every single way. Of course, Apple's marketing machine would have kept the iPad on top, anyway.

    I use iOS, Android, and WebOS. And WebOS is by far the quickest to perform most tasks and the most elegant. Ever tried listening to the news (and flash-based at that) playing in the background while using some other app on the iPad? I didn't think so, multitasking is important. Neither iOS nor WebOS have any learning curve -- the problem is just that HP pushed this out the door with some of the functionality that people need most missing. That is the main reason apps are important.
    "Ipads are for people with no interest in technical matters" ... Or, for people with an interest in technical matters (i.e. me, software engineer, 20 years commercial experience, interests include setting up Digital Audio Workstations) and are attracted by the apps that are just not available on other platforms.

    I will grant you that the TouchPad is currently more suited to someone who likes to 'tweak' (or chuck other OSs on it) but that is partly by necessity.

    Sometimes I just want to do things, technical or not, and most of time I don't want to be bothered with the intricacies if I just want to create something in GarageBand (say).
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    #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    i disagree with the last point. I had a learning curve with webos. I had to get used to not having a dedicated back button as i was used to. I think if you switch o.s. there is always a learning curve.

    but to you're wife's point, i too don't care how something works i care what it does. And apps add to what does. I get that the O.S. multitasks and stuff but the other options are good enough for most people. They are "elegant" enough for most people. And for my money the best product is gonna be the one that appeals to the most people in the market. And in that i think HP and Palm both failed. And i'd point to some of the comments in the palm cast and the roundtable following the ending of devices where you had lots of webos loyalist point out shortcomings of design and thickness, substantial webos software flaws, and saying how it's really hard to lay them side by side with an ipad 2 and all its' options and convince people to buy a touchpad. To me that's a big argument that both hardware and software where clearly not good enough. I'm not saying it's all bad or that it's wrong for you or you're wrong to be satisfied. But to me the bottom line is if enough people don't want to buy your item and only a small niche does there is a major problem. A major failing. Kinda like HD-dvd (which sadly i had) or mnidiscs. But on the related point of apps. I just think that if the market wants apps it's not an answer to say "you don't need apps." I wouldn't say they are everything. But i think they are a very big thing.
    Yes, I am not arguing with you here. My point was -- the 3000 plus apps we have could be way more than enough (it is quite a pain to try to find something decent among the 200 K+ the big guys have). The top 10 Android apps account for 80% of usage. The numbers are similar for iOS. The problem is that that quite a few important apps are missing. HP had the chance to make the Touchpad something special, great for many people. Now it still is the best tablet, but it does take a lot more work and know-how to make it do everything I want it to.

    As for the Bluray HD-DVD fight, the studios decided that, not the consumers. And Sony owns a studio. But it won't matter in a year or two, everything will be delivered over the net.
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    #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadVim View Post
    Sometimes I just want to do things, technical or not, and most of time I don't want to be bothered with the intricacies if I just want to create something in GarageBand (say).
    Of course, a new platform won't have every single app on the planet right out of the gate. If you have special needs then those will decide which OS to choose. Just as many people still have to have a Windows machine for a single application like CAD or something.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by xpl View Post
    In my opinion apps are indeed everything. The iPad woudnt be so succesful without the Appstore.
    The iPad is a status symbol. People buy them because other people have them and they want to keep up with the joneses. I know quite a few people that bought them and said "I wanted one, but I don't know why".

    I agree that the iPad wouldn't be so successful without content (apps). However, the number of apps on a platform doesn't mean much. It's all very well touting hundreds of thousands of apps but consider.

    You can't have ALL of them on your device at the same time
    Some are rubbish
    Most you would never use

    Touchpad has the essentials and nothing more. I don't need thousands of games, and I don't want to have to look for decent apps in a crowd of fart soundboards and sex guides. Plus there are so many websites that have mobile versions which negates the need for an app. And the touchpad has flash, so I don't need to have BBC iPlayer and other streaming apps, because I can just go straight to the site.
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    #115  
    said "I wanted one, but I don't know why".
    I hear the same from firesale Touchpad owners "it was cheap and a real deal - now what do I want it for?"

    and I don't want to have to look for decent apps in a crowd of fart soundboards and sex guides.
    When people make this comment, I always think they are trotting out something they have heard rather than something they have experienced, the only way you can find a fart soundboard or a sex guide in the android market or iOS is to actively look for one. I have never looked for either and so have never come across either.
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  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by snorri788 View Post
    The iPad is a status symbol. People buy them because other people have them and they want to keep up with the joneses. I know quite a few people that bought them and said "I wanted one, but I don't know why".

    I agree that the iPad wouldn't be so successful without content (apps). However, the number of apps on a platform doesn't mean much. It's all very well touting hundreds of thousands of apps but consider.

    You can't have ALL of them on your device at the same time
    Some are rubbish
    Most you would never use

    Touchpad has the essentials and nothing more. I don't need thousands of games, and I don't want to have to look for decent apps in a crowd of fart soundboards and sex guides. Plus there are so many websites that have mobile versions which negates the need for an app. And the touchpad has flash, so I don't need to have BBC iPlayer and other streaming apps, because I can just go straight to the site.
    You know, when I open up the Market App on my phone, I am not faced with a crowd of fart and sex apps. It's not that hard finding quality apps between looking at what's new and what's highest rated.

    It's disingenuous and pure hyperbole to suggest that having 100,000 apps is meaningless.
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  17. #117  
    A simple search in Google for "Top iPad apps" or "Top 100 iPad apps" and I didn't see one fart or sex guide app listed.

    Having never owned an Apple product, I don't know what it's like to search the app store. I have gone into MarketPlace and that can be a lot to take in all at once. I just did the same thing when I was messing around on my girlfriend's Incredible S.... a quick search with the old magical Google for best/top Android apps....and I found some pretty good ones.

    Things like (iPad apps...was what I was just looking at) Google Earth, Groovemaker, Photobooth, GarageBand, Jenga HD, War Pinball HD, Star Walk would be apps that I'd be interested in. Coming soon for webOS.....I doubt it. Available with a flash browser.....no. Am I bitter....no I made my choice. I did pay full price for a 32 GB and I probably could have scrounged up enough money for an iPad2, but I decided to stick with what I know and what I like. I make the most of it, and I'm getting my money's worth out of it.
  18. #118  
    I was kind of exaggerating and being a bit sarcastic with the quality and "genre" of apps in the Apple App Store.

    Honestly, I think that having hundreds of thousands of apps to choose from is a bit unnecessary. I'm fine with the choice that is available in the App Catalog. A few more games to choose from would be good, but I have a PSP and DS, plus a PS3, so another gaming device would be a bit much.
  19. #119  
    Applications are everything because it re-defines and tailors unique experiences for everyone.

    Everyone's use-case differs and having hundreds of thousands of apps, I am sure there is something that will make you happy.
    For example, my wife uses it for recipes, downloading tv shows and learning a new language. My kids use it for watching their cartoons, playing educational games. I use mine for remote work - vpn, reading magazines,etc. I won't get into specifics but the iPad fits into my workflow at my job. Each set of users have different sets of apps.


    I'll disclose I got the 1st iPad, then the second iPad and I also got the TP. With the 1st iPad, there were times I questioned my purchased but over time, as apps appeared, I found new uses for it.

    I do not surf the web with my tablet and when I do, the whole Flash thing is a bit over-rated. For example, I was on my touchpad and went to a real-estate site and tried to look for houses. There are sliders and with flash, it expects a mouse. I could not make adjustments so the site was useless to me (sawbuck.com) On iOS, there are custom apps are are tailored for the mobile devices.

    Some things are so unituitive. Reading PDFS are pitiful on the touchpad. I read 40-50 meg PDFs all day long and iOS and Android devices have no problems. The Touchpad can barely open a 4MB PDF.
    1/2 of my MP3s that I bought from amazon.com music store shows no album art. It doesn't play movies over 3 gigs,etc.. None of my movies have thumbnails. I have to go and download an app called Meta-X and re-do all my meta-data so music videos and movies have thumbnails. None of my pictures are in any sort of order whatsoever. I tried renaming my photos sequentially (1.jpg,2.jpg) but it doesn't show in the order I want. I know iTunes is despised but I have to give Apple credit. I make presentations for clients and having a certain order of images and a slide show is pretty important on my list of things I need with a tablet. If I have to change the exif data and re-jig the creation date for photos, something is loss.
    I tried double-twist to organize my media for both Android and WebOS but I still get a 1/2 baked experience.


    Don't get me wrong, I like the touchpad a lot (I'm running Ubuntu on it most of the time) but it is a 1/2 baked product. I know I can tweak my Touchpad and I do. Most of the things I am running are home-brew, pre-ware,etc..The only thing that is keeping with the Touchpad is the ability to run Xecutah and Ubuntu Chroot. However, if needed, I can always run Linux from 4-5 different laptops/ultraportables I have in the household so justifying the Touchpad is a harder to make.

    With the iPad, I have no problem recommending it to people.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by snorri788 View Post
    Touchpad has the essentials and nothing more. I don't need thousands of games, and I don't want to have to look for decent apps in a crowd of fart soundboards and sex guides. Plus there are so many websites that have mobile versions which negates the need for an app. And the touchpad has flash, so I don't need to have BBC iPlayer and other streaming apps, because I can just go straight to the site.
    That's fine if that's all you'll ever need to do.

    Most of the tablet owners I know want to do more than just browse the web though.
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