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  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Maybe if iOS also handled multi-tasking like webOS, especially on the TouchPad, I would completely agree with you. Apple made a strategic decision not to include Flash. The lack of Flash or any other plug-ins means more apps that "add" that lost functionality. More apps means a higher app count. Also Apple gets a cut from the app sales. Even if the app is offered for free, Apple gets a cut of the content provided. They charge Amazon 30% for every book delivered to their "free" Kindle app on iOS. That 30% charge will eventually make it's way to you, the consumer, because content providers won't absorb those cost. They will just pass it on to you. If Apple added plug-in support their app count would go down and it would be harder to charge for or control the content going to the device. Welcome to the walled garden. Hope the plants smell good. Don't worry about getting stung by the bees.

    Edit: They also made a strategic decision to do their own sorry version of multi-tasking. Real multi-tasking drains battery power. They can advertise that their devices have better battery life until mobile batteries capacity catch up with demand. Then Apple will "magically" add better webOS like multi-tasking to their devices.
    What is 'real' multitasking? How is webOS 'real multitasking' when it can't even render a web page in the background? All the OSes multitask, they just do it in different ways.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  2. #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I just don't know how anyone can objectively say "the TouchPad's browser is fine" unless it's the only mobile browser they've ever used.

    I typed up a list of problems with it a few weeks back and, yeah, it's probably the worst mobile browser I've used to date.
    There's ******* in every OS. Always willing to whitewash problems with a device rather than admit it's shortcomings.
  3. #183  
    There is more than a web browser that makes a compelling tablet.

    Furthermore, I don't understand why people make the common arguments that apps from the iOS app store are re-packaged web sites. This is a common misnomer I read on the internet.

    Here are some great apps that are not internet connected:

    1) Apps that allow you to read AUTOCAD drawing files. My architect friend replaced a briefcase w/ 40lbs of blueprints when he goes on construction site with his iPad.

    2) Apps that give you turn-by-turn navigation. This comes in handy when you go abroad w/a 3G iPad. $25-40 for regional maps in Italy, Brazil, etc is cheaper tan spending $150 at the foreign car rental place.

    There are gps apps for geo-caching. Maritime Nautical apps. My friend who competes in the America's World Cup uses an Ipad to replace a $2,000 Garmin Marine GPS. Sure, it doesn't have all the features but $600 is cheaper than $2K

    3) Apps that allow you to plug in a guitar and have a jam session and do remixes w/ your portable music studio. Kids are finding new uses for Garage band.
    There are now apps that connect to instruments and amps.

    4) Apps that allow you explore photography. Some apps can control high-end DSLR/ Medium format camera. Some apps allow you to read RAW image files. With the camera connection kit, I can import videos from my point-n-shoot canon and edit within the iPad. There are photo imagining apps. Heck, you can even use an ipad as a light meter for old cameras w/ broken meters. $3 for a light meter apps vs spending $150 for a real light meter.

    5) Video editing apps. Same as above but with video.

    6) Apps that connect to home entertainment systems, cable companies' DVRs. In some select areas, you can control and stream videos from your DVR to your iOS device.

    7) Apps that connect to cars for shade tree mechanics. With a cable or wireless adapter, you can plug into your car and read/clear error codes from your ipad. You can diagnose a misfiring cylinder. If you go shopping for a used car (post 1997), you can see if there any fault codes stored in the car. You can modify your boost/air-fuel mixture intake. Pretty awesome for shade-tree mechanics and auto enthusiasts.

    I can go on but you get the picture. None of the above may interests any you but with the strong eco-system, you would be surprise at all the 3rd party "APPs" support iPads have going for it.

    None of which the Touchpad can do
    DeadVim and sinsin07 like this.
  4. #184  
    I agree with the above.

    The whole "you don't need apps when you have Flash" is just a rallying call for platforms nobody develops for. The PlayBook and TouchPad are two shining examples of that.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  5. #185  
    Well the Touchpad just got a patch posted on the frontpage of precentral. Not an app I guess, and its truly is a "patch" in every sense of the word over a major problem. Its things like this why I am looking forward to Android on the TP.

    Homebrew: Speakers not working? Fix it with PulseAudio Restarter | The #1 HP webOS, TouchPad, Pre, and Veer Community | PreCentral.net

    Pretty sad that developers have to spend time writing patches like this instead of actually developing something of use. I mean seriously how did HP think this was ready for primetime when it loses the ability to play sound.
  6. #186  
    virtualjock,

    Nobody is arguing with you on the apps that are useful and the TouchPad has apps for some of the points you listed. I can tell you that from my personal standpoint the iPad would be a much better device for me if it included Flash and I don't believe that apps that are made strictly to replace the functionality lost by not having it should count when comparing it to a Flash enabled device. I think Android would be better if it were more stable when using Flash, along with some UI enhancements. We all know the faults with webOS since we use it and this is a webOS site. Look back most of my post around the forums. I acknowledge the shortcomings with the OS but I also do my part to help it improve.

    nappy, Android has Flash and it is not a dying platform. I was on the other side of the Flash argument a decade ago when Macromedia would not include a Linux Flash plug-in. I said some of the same things you said. Flash was buggy, not needed, etc. The web is just not the web without it. Guess what, as soon as there was a Flash plugin available for Linux, almost all the holdouts downloaded it and still use it today. If you think webOS users are in denial about apps, what do you think of iOS users' denial about Flash?

    I personally would love to see more apps on webOS, especially games, but I have already said that before (if some of you would read before going off on a iOS is the bestest ever rant).
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by muyoso View Post
    Well the Touchpad just got a patch posted on the frontpage of precentral. Not an app I guess, and its truly is a "patch" in every sense of the word over a major problem. Its things like this why I am looking forward to Android on the TP.

    Homebrew: Speakers not working? Fix it with PulseAudio Restarter | The #1 HP webOS, TouchPad, Pre, and Veer Community | PreCentral.net

    Pretty sad that developers have to spend time writing patches like this instead of actually developing something of use. I mean seriously how did HP think this was ready for primetime when it loses the ability to play sound.
    HP took a gamble and went with PulseAudio. It is the same audio system that is used on most modern Linux distributions. It is an extremely powerful audio server, but, in a word it sucks. Not because of a lack of features, it has a ton of them, but because it is unstable. I spent a whole month trying to get the digital sound from an analog TV card to work right on it.

    PulseAudio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I don't know what Android uses. However, since it is another Linux based OS it probably uses ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture). PulseAudio will replace ALSA as the primary sound server for Linux based systems, just like ALSA replaced OSS (Open Sound System), so Android will eventually have it. If you move to Android you will deal with the issue eventually.

    Advanced Linux Sound Architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Open Sound System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The fix for this is not labor intensive, so the patch probably did not take the developer time to make. The fix is to run the following script:

    stop PulseAudio && start PulseAudio

    The TouchPad handles PulseAudio better than my Ubuntu set-up did. On Ubuntu it was easier just to restart the computer, since I had to run multiple commands to restart PulseAudio. I'm glad there is a patch for this for novice users.
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    nappy, Android has Flash and it is not a dying platform. I was on the other side of the Flash argument a decade ago when Macromedia would not include a Linux Flash plug-in. I said some of the same things you said. Flash was buggy, not needed, etc. The web is just not the web without it. Guess what, as soon as there was a Flash plugin available for Linux, almost all the holdouts downloaded it and still use it today. If you think webOS users are in denial about apps, what do you think of iOS users' denial about Flash?
    Why does anyone bother to develop for Android if Android supports Flash?
  9. #189  
    7) Apps that connect to cars for shade tree mechanics. With a cable or wireless adapter, you can plug into your car and read/clear error codes from your ipad. You can diagnose a misfiring cylinder. If you go shopping for a used car (post 1997), you can see if there any fault codes stored in the car. You can modify your boost/air-fuel mixture intake. Pretty awesome for shade-tree mechanics and auto enthusiasts.
    I know there's a diagnostic reader available for webOS
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  10. #190  
    muyuso, et al. This is a webOS enthusiast and community site. I believe the goal here is to help new and existing users get around or fix the flaws with webOS. I don't know what you, CGK, nappy, or Chalx issue is. You definitely don't seem like webOS enthusiast to me. ALL mobile OSes have strength and weaknesses. Enthusiast promote the strengths while helping to fix the weakness. You seem more like iOS or Android enthusiast instead of webOS ones. You quickly point out a weakness in webOS, then attack what others perceive as a strength. You are quicker to defend the weaknesses in iOS or Android instead of promote the strengths of webOS which has me and others questioning the reason why your are here. It is obviously not to help. Did you buy a TouchPad just to point out the flaws in it or did you buy it because you liked webOS? To me it seems like you bought a car just to kick dents in it, then complain about how it looks to everyone around you and say that you would not drive something that looks so ugly.

    Look at how you represent this community to new users. Instead of making them feel welcomed you attack them for using a device with such a lousy browser and limited apps. You represent yourself as a webOS user but you don't want to support the platform? You complain about the lack of apps and then in almost the same breath attack the apps that are available. How do you expect others around you, especially developers to take you seriously? If you admit you won't use the platform, why should they develop apps for you and why should new users want to use it?

    By a stroke of dumb luck HP gave you a powerful gift. That gift was called 800,000 new webOS users. Instead of complaining about the lack of features in the browser, email the developer of the Advanced Browser and let him/her know what you want. If you want Miren, email the developer of that app and let them know that you want it on webOS. Put your money where your mouth is. Let developers know that you are willing to buy the app once it hits the market so they won't waste their time. Instead of berating the OS and other users for defending it, get those users to petition the developer with you. We have had several success stories from folks who did just that.

    Like I said before you are eager to defend iOS or Android and it's shortcomings but do you think that Google and Apple got developers to develop for their platforms without the support of users like you? Do you want to see the same with webOS or do you want it to just die? From what I am seeing with the vast majority of your post, you are begging for the latter.
  11. #191  
    None of which? *HAHAHAHA!

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Why does anyone bother to develop for Android if Android supports Flash?
    Because Android is on a ton of devices and its users actually support the platform, unlike some of the users here. I don't use website replacement apps on Android because there is not a need to. Those apps don't have nearly as much support as the ones for iOS because many of them are not needed.
  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    None of which? *HAHAHAHA!

    -- Sent from my using Communities
    DARN IT! When will Communities be released? You beta tester are making me jealous!
  14. #194  
    k4ever, why do I get multiple responses from you for every 1 post I make? Just curious?
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by muyoso View Post
    k4ever, why do I get multiple responses from you for every 1 post I make? Just curious?
    I was posting on my Pre. It is hard to edit posts on it (no keys to move the cursor) so in order for me to "complete a thought" I have to start a new post.
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    muyuso, et al. This is a webOS enthusiast and community site. I believe the goal here is to help new and existing users get around or fix the flaws with webOS. I don't know what you, CGK, nappy, or Chalx issue is. You definitely don't seem like webOS enthusiast to me. ALL mobile OSes have strength and weaknesses. Enthusiast promote the strengths while helping to fix the weakness. You seem more like iOS or Android enthusiast instead of webOS ones. You quickly point out a weakness in webOS, then attack what others perceive as a strength. You are quicker to defend the weaknesses in iOS or Android instead of promote the strengths of webOS which has me and others questioning the reason why your are here. It is obviously not to help. Did you buy a TouchPad just to point out the flaws in it or did you buy it because you liked webOS? To me it seems like you bought a car just to kick dents in it, then complain about how it looks to everyone around you and say that you would not drive something that looks so ugly.
    I point out the strengths and weaknesses as I see them. I am not going to sugarcoat my feelings about WebOS because I am on a WebOS site. I have not done that for Android over on XDA or for the iPad over at iPadforums. If something stinks about the OS or the device, I am going to point it out. If something is great, I will point it out. I bought the Touchpad (3 of them in fact) to install Android on. Had WebOS been amazing, I would have stayed with WebOS. I was taken aback at how flawed certain aspects of WebOS was however when I first started using the tablet. Nobody should have been surprised that HP ditched this OS in its current form, as there are multiple bugs that are not acceptable when you are competing against bigger and more polished platforms.

    Look at how you represent this community to new users. Instead of making them feel welcomed you attack them for using a device with such a lousy browser and limited apps. You represent yourself as a webOS user but you don't want to support the platform? You complain about the lack of apps and then in almost the same breath attack the apps that are available. How do you expect others around you, especially developers to take you seriously? If you admit you won't use the platform, why should they develop apps for you and why should new users want to use it?
    Who have I attacked? I don't represent myself as a WebOS user, I AM a WebOS user. No, I don't want to support the platform, but I wouldn't mind using it if it wasn't abandoned and was in a usable state for me. Does everyone who uses WebOS have to actively support the platform instead of just using it? I have helped multiple people on these forums though because its the nice thing to do. Yes, I do complain about the lack of apps and the quality of the apps available. Am I not allowed to notice that compared to other platforms there is essentially zero apps and that some of the apps I have used are meh quality? I don't care if developers take me seriously, why would I? I don't really get where you are coming from, I am not trying to attract talent to this platform or something, I am just a user seeing what is available and judging the platform compared to what I have personally used.

    By a stroke of dumb luck HP gave you a powerful gift. That gift was called 800,000 new webOS users. Instead of complaining about the lack of features in the browser, email the developer of the Advanced Browser and let him/her know what you want. If you want Miren, email the developer of that app and let them know that you want it on webOS. Put your money where your mouth is. Let developers know that you are willing to buy the app once it hits the market so they won't waste their time. Instead of berating the OS and other users for defending it, get those users to petition the developer with you. We have had several success stories from folks who did just that.
    Wrong. By HP's complete lack of interest in WebOS as evidenced by them not releasing a polished product even 6 months after they showed off the Touchpad to Engadget AND my getting off my **** and going to Best Buy at 4am got me this powerful gift. Nobody gave me anything and it wasn't "luck", it was HP's complete lack of interest in the platform. Emailing the dev of Advanced browser won't solve anything. He uses the default browser as a base, and adds a few features on top of that. The Touchpad needs a new browser completely rebuilt. Again, I am not going to put my money where my mouth is as I bought the tablet to put Android on it initially. Also, I doubt there is going to be any more development for WebOS to begin with and with the uncertainty anyone who dumps money into apps on WebOS is odd in my mind. I haven't berated a single user for using WebOS. The only thing I have berated is when users make false claims about other OS' to try and prop us and dismiss the inherent flaws in WebOS.

    Like I said before you are eager to defend iOS or Android and it's shortcomings but do you think that Google and Apple got developers to develop for their platforms without the support of users like you? Do you want to see the same with webOS or do you want it to just die? From what I am seeing with the vast majority of your post, you are begging for the latter.
    Google and Apple got developers to develop for their platform by building a stable base and offering a compelling product that fills a market demand. Apple gives you a complete experience which is EXTREMELY stable, yet limited. Google gives you freedom on a slightly less stable platform which offers superior features like turn by turn navigation. WebOS in its current form is not a stable base to build on, attract developers with, or certainly convince users of iOS and Android to switch. When your audio randomly stops working and the browser is extremely limited and the device is slow and un-optimized to begin with AND the company behind it has essentially executed it, what good would trying to attract developers to the platform do anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I was posting on my Pre. It is hard to edit posts on it (no keys to move the cursor) so in order for me to "complete a thought" I have to start a new post.
    Jesus how are people so gung-ho over this OS? You can't move a cursor? In a smartphone OS? Windows Mobile 6 handled that flawlessly. I mean seriously are people just fascinated about the cards or something, what causes people to be obsessed with WebOS?


    To everyone else, sorry for the walls of text. K4ever, please lets take this to PM instead of cluttering this thread further.
    Last edited by muyoso; 09/19/2011 at 08:08 PM.
  17. #197  
    So you want me to take my defense of what I consider a good OS private while you berate it in public? No way! If you bought a TouchPad to use Android on then hit up the TouchPad forum in XDA Developers. Why post here in the webOS forum if you don't want to help the community or the OS? Do you expect webOS users not to take you to task for your statements?

    Edit: BTW, I can't move the cursor with the keyboard, which is a feature I want. I couldn't do that on my HTC Tilt (Windows Mobile 6 device) either.
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    So you want me to take my defense of what I consider a good OS private while you berate it in public? No way! If you bought a TouchPad to use Android on then hit up the TouchPad forum in XDA Developers. Why post here in the webOS forum if you don't want to help the community or the OS? Do you expect webOS users not to take you to task for your statements?
    If I lie or am pushing misinformation about the platform sure I would expect you to take me to task. I don't think I have. I have also made almost a half dozen videos to back up claims and to refute others.

    Also, since you will ignore all of the GLARING issues with the OS like the fact that it will randomly stop playing sounds (how is this remotely acceptable?) and still consider the OS great, THAT is why I am saying lets take it to PM. You are going to argue that every GIGANTIC issue that is brought up is not important, so lets just do it over PM and not ruin the thread for everyone else. PS, I was responding to you btw, so we have each had our say publicly. Lets take it private so as not to ruin the thread / get me banned for not following the hivemind.
  19. #199  
    Quote Originally Posted by Steep View Post
    Well then speaking as grain of sand number four million seven hundred and thirty six thousand two hundred and twent eight! I don't give a stuff about speed tests as long as it works :P
    Point taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steep View Post
    Seriously, what are you going to do with the 9.5 seconds you reckon you might save using another device?
    Speed may not matter to you. Understood. But everywhere you look, the public is being inundated with speed. Verizon, ATT, Sprint, T-Mobile, Cox, Time Warner, Cablevision all advertise speed. The public knows about 4g.
    Some sad folks think the iphone 4 is 4G.
    If you are trying to look something up on the street on a mobile device, lag is the last thing you need.
  20. #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by muyoso View Post
    If I lie or am pushing misinformation about the platform sure I would expect you to take me to task. I don't think I have. I have also made almost a half dozen videos to back up claims and to refute others.

    Also, since you will ignore all of the GLARING issues with the OS like the fact that it will randomly stop playing sounds (how is this remotely acceptable?) and still consider the OS great, THAT is why I am saying lets take it to PM. You are going to argue that every GIGANTIC issue that is brought up is not important, so lets just do it over PM and not ruin the thread for everyone else. PS, I was responding to you btw, so we have each had our say publicly. Lets take it private so as not to ruin the thread / get me banned for not following the hivemind.
    Its funny that I mention all the glaring uses with Android or iOS and you respond quickly, but don't acknowledge (ie. IGNORE) the issues. I know the issues with webOS very well since I've been using it for over 2 years now. I have posted my issues here with the OS and recieved help from the community, Palm, and HP. You post an issue, I point out a fix, then you get upset? Do you do the same when someone tells you that you need to root your device to keep the OS from killing your home screen replacement? What about when you need to run a task manager to kill apps that the OS let run in the background so your battery won't die or that your need to run a custom ROM to get ad-hoc network support (at least you have that fix)? How about when you need to jailbreak the device to get theme support or run a wireless hotspot, something that other OSes have for free and require less work? Do you want help or do you want to spend your time complaining?

    BTW, I've used Android since the first public release (on my HTC Tilt, btw) and I know all of the problems with that OS also. Funny I post issues and recieve help in the Android forums, yet I don't berate my device, the OS, or other Android users there.

    You don't want to use webOS, thats alright. Do use all a favor and spend your time helping your favorite OS grow and stay away from ours. There is an Android mod for the TouchPad. You can use that if it makes you feel better about your purchases. Why waste our time and yours if you don't feel a need to help or don't appreciate help? Every OS has flaws. Did you think Google stopped producing Android after 1.x and Apple stop producing iOS after 1.x? Not all of those upgrades included features, especially the .0x releases.
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