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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    Again, I was referring to their development cycle. Shelf life, as in how long they are on the sales shelf. Any mobile device maker knows that they can only expect to market a device for 1 year. After that, they had better have a new device out the door.

    << snip >>

    I know it is hard for the folks here that have supported webOS from the start, but it is over. HP is not, in fact, cannot sell the Touchpad at a loss. The only hope here is that webOS is licensed, which at this point looks highly unlikely.
    The markets are too different to compare. When a new console arrives, everyone wants to/has to replace the old one because the new one won't run the old games and the old one won't run the new games.

    PCs and laptops, there is a cycle of the OSs, but it's not every HW cycle. New laptop models arrive ~ yearly or biyearly per mfgr. but several years go by between OSs.

    With Phones, there are new models constantly too. but each new model doesn't always come with a new OS. so obsolescence is measured not by discontinuance of usability, but by the perception of same, as with PCs. Some people believe they only need a new PC when a new OS comes out, others have to have a new one with every incremental speed increase.

    The tablet market is in it's infancy as far as popularity is concerned. It's likely too soon to tell, but it is seeming to mimic phones in that people expect

    1. a tablet released today to be on competitive hardware [EG: the TP must somehow be as fast/full featured as the iPad2] and,

    2. there to be timely updates to the HW and SW. That is the nature of the beast and HP looked at their future and didn't like what they saw. Hopefully, there will be someone else that is up to the challenge.

    If not, webOS is like a roach crawling across poison. It's dead but it doesn't know it yet.
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  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    I, and many others would disagree. At the time of their release, nothing came close to matching those phones. The only exception might be the 3GS, which is a great device in its own right, but by that time Android had pretty much caught up.



    I am considering selling it. However, it would of course be at the current market price. The thing is that with the Touchstone it makes a great clock/photo frame.
    Current market price would put it at $99 if it were a 16gb and $149 if it were a 32gb. You can sell it for $50 over current market value (since it is used).

    For your first statement, the iPhones 1-3 sold well but Apple did not capture large enough market share until the iPhone 4 came out (and they discounted the 3 to $99). Even with all of the iPhone sales combined worldwide they are still not the market leader by a long shot, but in the top 4.

    Sell your TouchPad to someone who wants it and likes webOS enough to want to stay, then join the forums for your other tablet. It would be a win win situation for all of us.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by e-gadget-guy View Post
    The markets are too different to compare. When a new console arrives, everyone wants to/has to replace the old one because the new one won't run the old games and the old one won't run the new games.

    PCs and laptops, there is a cycle of the OSs, but it's not every HW cycle. New laptop models arrive ~ yearly or biyearly per mfgr. but several years go by between OSs.

    With Phones, there are new models constantly too. but each new model doesn't always come with a new OS. so obsolescence is measured not by discontinuance of usability, but by the perception of same, as with PCs. Some people believe they only need a new PC when a new OS comes out, others have to have a new one with every incremental speed increase.

    The tablet market is in it's infancy as far as popularity is concerned. It's likely too soon to tell, but it is seeming to mimic phones in that people expect

    1. a tablet released today to be on competitive hardware [EG: the TP must somehow be as fast/full featured as the iPad2] and,

    2. there to be timely updates to the HW and SW. That is the nature of the beast and HP looked at their future and didn't like what they saw. Hopefully, there will be someone else that is up to the challenge.

    If not, webOS is like a roach crawling across poison. It's dead but it doesn't know it yet.
    I wouldn't use a roach as a part of my analogy. They have been around for millions of years and are highly resilient. They adapt to poisons quickly and for every one that dies, there are thousands more hiding out close by.

    I think the tablet market is like the phone market in the eyes of the reviewers and some die hard techies. However I think that the average consumer wants the tablet market to be like the PC market in that they want longevity in their devices. Smartphones only cost $199 with huge subsides. Tablets are costing $400 and up even with subsides (4g versions). The average consumer doesn't want to pay that much for a "throw away" device. Besides, no one ever asks me if my TouchPad could replace their cell phone. They want to know if it could replace their laptop.
  4. #104  
    I think we should all be asking what is HP going to do with all of the new users for their dead device? They added document editing (finally!). I keep seeing new apps in the catalog (Asphalt 6! Heck yeah!) I just read the latest Pivot release. HP is talking about the next update and some big name developers have joined up (Splash Top, Picsel Office). Looks like webOS is still going strong.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I think the tablet market is like the phone market in the eyes of the reviewers and some die hard techies. However I think that the average consumer wants the tablet market to be like the PC market in that they want longevity in their devices. Smartphones only cost $199 with huge subsides. Tablets are costing $400 and up even with subsides (4g versions). The average consumer doesn't want to pay that much for a "throw away" device. Besides, no one ever asks me if my TouchPad could replace their cell phone. They want to know if it could replace their laptop.
    I don't think the average consumer is going to upgrade their tablet every year (like they do with phones) but when you look at iPad and iPad 2 sales figures, there are a lot of people buying the iPad 2 as their first tablet. That creates different upgrade cycles which makes it problematic to try to sell the same design for longer than a year - at some point, you're going to be selling a thicker, older, and slower tablet than your competition.
  6. cgk
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    #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I think we should all be asking what is HP going to do with all of the new users for their dead device? They added document editing (finally!). I keep seeing new apps in the catalog (Asphalt 6! Heck yeah!) I just read the latest Pivot release. HP is talking about the next update and some big name developers have joined up (Splash Top, Picsel Office). Looks like webOS is still going strong.
    I would think that most of those have had apps in the works for a while and have rushed them out of the door while WebOS tablet ownership is at it's peak (which I believe is *down* on overall WebOS ownership) to try and cash in on revenue spent before it is too late.
    rcmpdx and sinsin07 like this.
  7. #107  
    And it's not like it takes much effort to publish Pivot articles that were probably already written when HP killed webOS.

    I get that people want to rationalize what's going on and find evidence of webOS still having a pulse but it's hard to ignore things like Samsung and HTC publicly stating that they have no intention of getting involved with webOS. Or HP splitting the webOS GBU into two and keeping webOS away from the division that may get spun off.
    cashmonee and sinsin07 like this.
  8. #108  
    I agree entirely with CGK. That's why there are still ads running in the Sunday circulars at the pre-firesale prices. HP pulled the rug out from everyone so fast, there is still some momentum that will quickly grind to a halt without any new hardware in the pipeline. It's not just new users that will keep the developers interest. There has to be a future roadmap for new state of the art hardware and software. HP has totally blown their credibility in that regard.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I don't think the average consumer is going to upgrade their tablet every year (like they do with phones) but when you look at iPad and iPad 2 sales figures, there are a lot of people buying the iPad 2 as their first tablet. That creates different upgrade cycles which makes it problematic to try to sell the same design for longer than a year - at some point, you're going to be selling a thicker, older, and slower tablet than your competition.
    uhmm don't average users upgrade every 2 years or more? I don't know any "average" user upgrading more than that. Even people into tech don't upgrade sooner than their contract offers, just saying, "average" isnt every year.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  10. cgk
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    #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    uhmm don't average users upgrade every 2 years or more? I don't know any "average" user upgrading more than that. Even people into tech don't upgrade sooner than their contract offers, just saying, "average" isnt every year.
    Yes but everyone's upgrade point is different - which is life-cycles are short - because there are always consumers come to the end of their contract. That's why android handset life-cycles are getting shorter and shorter.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    One blog posted that story so i don't buy that either . Without confirmation all these things are just speculations and I do believe that bloggers post them just to attract traffic.
    That was a Wall Street Journal blogger on the Wall Street Journal's website. I have to give them some kind of credit. The story caused enough of a stir that HP discontinued the product two days later.
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  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    uhmm don't average users upgrade every 2 years or more? I don't know any "average" user upgrading more than that. Even people into tech don't upgrade sooner than their contract offers, just saying, "average" isnt every year.
    You're probably right. I consider myself to be an average user but I guess the fact that I upgrade my phone every year means I'm probably anything but average.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I don't think the average consumer is going to upgrade their tablet every year (like they do with phones) but when you look at iPad and iPad 2 sales figures, there are a lot of people buying the iPad 2 as their first tablet. That creates different upgrade cycles which makes it problematic to try to sell the same design for longer than a year - at some point, you're going to be selling a thicker, older, and slower tablet than your competition.
    There is a big difference in the PC world then in the Apple world when it comes thinnest, weight, and speed. Gamers buy the fastest, latest, and greatest in the PC world. Others buy what works. Look at the PCs being sold at Walmart for about $400. I would never buy one of them because of all of the integrated hardware, yet they sell well because of the price point. No one seems to care how pretty they look or how slow they are as long as they do what they need. However, the TouchPad is not in that category yet. The processor is faster than the iPad 2, the GPU is supposedly the best in the market (even though HP hasn't taken full advantage of it yet) and it has twice the RAM of the iPad 2.
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    #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Current market price would put it at $99 if it were a 16gb and $149 if it were a 32gb. You can sell it for $50 over current market value (since it is used).
    Looking at eBay, Amazon, and Craigslist, market value is significantly higher than $99 for a 16 GB. I would venture that $200-$225 is easily attainable for a slightly used 2 week old Touchpad.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    uhmm don't average users upgrade every 2 years or more? I don't know any "average" user upgrading more than that. Even people into tech don't upgrade sooner than their contract offers, just saying, "average" isnt every year.
    I don't disagree, but at&t has always made sure I am upgrade eligible when a new iPhone comes around. It may be the amount I am paying per month, I do not know, but I have always been upgrade eligible for every iPhone thus far. In the end, the user life span is unimportant. The manufacturers must come out with a new device at least once a year to remain competitive. That is why subsidies would be difficult to recover on tablets that have no real revenue stream after sale.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    You're probably right. I consider myself to be an average user but I guess the fact that I upgrade my phone every year means I'm probably anything but average.
    It really depends on the cell phone provider. Most are moving to two year contracts. They will only offer the lowest price on new cell phone to new customers and customers who's contract is up. I'm trying to replace my Pre but Sprint wants me to pay full price, $599, for the phone I want because my contract is not up. When my contract is up in October the phone I want will only cost me $150.
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  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    There is a big difference in the PC world then in the Apple world when it comes thinnest, weight, and speed. Gamers buy the fastest, latest, and greatest in the PC world. Others buy what works. Look at the PCs being sold at Walmart for about $400. I would never buy one of them because of all of the integrated hardware, yet they sell well because of the price point. No one seems to care how pretty they look or how slow they are as long as they do what they need. However, the TouchPad is not in that category yet. The processor is faster than the iPad 2, the GPU is supposedly the best in the market (even though HP hasn't taken full advantage of it yet) and it has twice the RAM of the iPad 2.
    Sure, but these aren't PCs.

    And for whatever spec advantages the TouchPad has over iPad 2, you definitely wouldn't know by using it.
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  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I would think that most of those have had apps in the works for a while and have rushed them out of the door while WebOS tablet ownership is at it's peak (which I believe is *down* on overall WebOS ownership) to try and cash in on revenue spent before it is too late.
    From my understanding, Splash Top just started development on their app.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Sure, but these aren't PCs.

    And for whatever spec advantages the TouchPad has over iPad 2, you definitely wouldn't know by using it.
    My original posts on this subject stated that I believe most consumer treat tablets like PCs. No one wants to pay laptop prices for a tablet and that most expect the life span to be the same as PCs so the statement is relevant.

    Agreed on your second sentence but it really has to do with the OS and optimizations, not the hardware. There is more room for webOS to grow on the TouchPad because the hardware can support it for another cycle. Right now the specs (CPU, RAM, GPU) are better than any other tablet on the market.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    My original posts on this subject stated that I believe most consumer treat tablets like PCs. No one wants to pay laptop prices for a tablet and that most expect the life span to be the same as PCs so the statement is relevant.

    Agreed on your second sentence but it really has to do with the OS and optimizations, not the hardware. There is more room for webOS to grow on the TouchPad because the hardware can support it for another cycle. Right now the specs (CPU, RAM, GPU) are better than any other tablet on the market.
    Okay, let's dive into hypothetical scenarios and pretend the TouchPad is still alive and well and that HP has it on a > 1 year lifecycle. Let's also say a million people buy the TouchPad in 2011 because the specs are on par with the competition. What happens in 2012 when the TouchPad is occupying shelf space with quad core Kal-El SoCs that are also thinner and run at higher resolutions than 1024x768?

    The reality of the mobile market is companies can't care about you once you buy their current generation product. Not when there's another million people to sell tablets to and the way they do that is by going faster, lighter, and brighter.
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  20. #120  
    Nappy, cashmonee, CGK, and SandraW please answer a few questions for me:

    1) How does Android tablet makers make their money? Are they getting a cut from the app sales or is it solely off the hardware?

    2) Why didn't HP destroy their stock of TouchPads? They have to support each one that is sold for a year. Wouldn't it have made more financial sense to put it all in a landfill and pay the manufacturers the ridiculously low manufacturing costs? They already paid for the hardware.

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