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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Since the bit of HP that is actually interested in consumer electronics is now left with a WebOS hardware division that makes no hardware and the software has been moved into the graveyard that is the OST - Leo has make the chance that this will end up on anyone's else hardware even more remote (I guess he is showing Bradley who is Boss).

    Look out for WebOS on printers, in your car and pretty on no devices you actually want to own as a consumer.
    I don't know HP's structure that well so how is the OST the graveyard? Also, what is stopping the PSG from licensing webOS from HP once it is spun off?
  2. cashmonee's Avatar
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    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    So why do other tablet makers need to match or outsale Apple to be viable?
    Dude, not to be mean, but do you read?

    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    Second would be fine if it meant a market big enough to develop for. So far, that is not the case.
    I keep having to repeat everything I say because you are not reading. This is the second post in a row where I had already answered the question you posed.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    Again, I was referring to their development cycle. Shelf life, as in how long they are on the sales shelf. Any mobile device maker knows that they can only expect to market a device for 1 year. After that, they had better have a new device out the door. Recently that has been extended to two years with the second year being spent as a low priced option (see iPhone 3GS). That is in stark contrast to a console which will be sold and marketed for upwards of 10 years before replacement. For example the Xbox 360 was released in 2005 with a end of life set at 2015 by MS. In fact, there are no rumors of new consoles at the moment aside from Nintendo who does not belong in the conversation since they made money on the Wii from day one.

    The point to all of this is that the 360 and PS3 being sold today are nearly the same component-wise to what was sold release day. Because of that, cost to manufacture has gone down and both are turning a profit on each sale now. In the mobile world, that is not a scenario that is possible. By the time the component price has fallen significantly enough, something new has to be released. So, one more time, consoles are not tablets/phones. Totally different ballgame.

    I know it is hard for the folks here that have supported webOS from the start, but it is over. HP is not, in fact, cannot sell the Touchpad at a loss. The only hope here is that webOS is licensed, which at this point looks highly unlikely.
    I missed your comment about development cycles, which make sense. Development cycles and shelf life are different animals. Every time someone says webOS is over, its life is extended by a few more years. WebOS was over when Palm was on the rocks. It's still here. WebOS was over when HP took a whole year to introduce a product. It's still here and a million strong now. You or anyone else wishing, wanting, or hoping webOS will be over is meanless. WebOS will be dead when the last user dies and the last developer moves on.
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I missed your comment about development cycles, which make sense. Development cycles and shelf life are different animals. Every time someone says webOS is over, its life is extended by a few more years. WebOS was over when Palm was on the rocks. It's still here. WebOS was over when HP took a whole year to introduce a product. It's still here and a million strong now. You or anyone else wishing, wanting, or hoping webOS will be over is meanless. WebOS will be dead when the last user dies and the last developer moves on.
    I don't want webOS dead. In fact, I want it to improve and become stronger. I like competition and choices. However, looking at this realistically, things aren't going well. All of the mobile manufacturers thought to be interested in webOS have stated very clearly that they are not at all interested. HP seems to be in a major transition into a software/services company. All this leaves webOS out in the cold. Couple that with the thought that hp does not actually have control of the key Palm patents (I believe another company actually controls and licenses those), and it is looking more and more like this is the end of the line.
  5.    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Since the bit of HP that is actually interested in consumer electronics is now left with a WebOS hardware division that makes no hardware and the software has been moved into the graveyard that is the OST - Leo has make the chance that this will end up on anyone's else hardware even more remote (I guess he is showing Bradley who is Boss).

    Look out for WebOS on printers, in your car and pretty on no devices you actually want to own as a consumer.
    They are putting all hardware into PSG, not software. The hardware will be run as a commodity business, meaning cheap sourcing, cheap prices.

    The hardware spin-off, PSG, will license webOS, just as other companies might do (and indeed should be the biggest fan to show others webOS is viable).

    The fact that they have moved webOS into the software side but left it intact for now suggests they are still looking at mobile as a viable market, and well they should after the firesale showed demand and ebay and Amazon are proving demand at higher than firesale prices.
    Last edited by bluenote; 09/04/2011 at 11:20 AM.
  6. cgk
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    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I don't know HP's structure that well so how is the OST the graveyard? Also, what is stopping the PSG from licensing webOS from HP once it is spun off?
    In answer to the first one - it's services and enterprised focused, especially going forward once the PSG is gone.

    In answer to the second - The PSG will simply not have the financial fire-power to develop any decent hardware - if you look at their revenue/profitability. All the PSG is going to be capable of is fighting it out in the low-margins, high volume grey box game. They will not have the R&D capacity without HP standing behind them.
  7. #87  
    This thread was started to discuss the story about HP selling over 800,000-900,000 TouchPads and their willingness to sell over 200,000 more. Throughout this post examples were given about how HP could still make money on continuing production (if they chose to do so). I can understand counterpoints, that's what makes this thread interesting. However I can't understand naysayers wanting to have it their way and only their way. Why bring up iPad sales to point out the TouchPad's relevance vs the iPad, yet get upset when someone mentions Macs relevance vs PCs? If the Mac community can survive and remain viable having only a fraction of the user PCs have, then why can't the TouchPad? I honestly think (actually I know based on your comments) that most of you want webOS to die. My question is why are you here? Are you trying to convince the other 899,999 TouchPad users that they are wrong? How about you go over to Samsung's forum and mess around with the 20,000 Galaxy Tab users. They seem like a easier target for you.
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  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    In answer to the first one - it's services and enterprised focused, especially going forward once the PSG is gone.

    In answer to the second - The PSG will simply not have the financial fire-power to develop any decent hardware - if you look at their revenue/profitability. All the PSG is going to be capable of is fighting it out in the low-margins, high volume grey box game. They will not have the R&D capacity without HP standing behind them.
    HP wants to license out webOS and make money off of the apps and services. Wouldn't this be the group to put the OS in?

    I admit that the PSG has become or will become an orphan soon but they will still be the largest PC company in the world. If they want to survive they will have to push into the mobile market. Why not go with what you know?
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  9.    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    In answer to the first one - it's services and enterprised focused, especially going forward once the PSG is gone.

    In answer to the second - The PSG will simply not have the financial fire-power to develop any decent hardware - if you look at their revenue/profitability. All the PSG is going to be capable of is fighting it out in the low-margins, high volume grey box game. They will not have the R&D capacity without HP standing behind them.
    Ad for PSG on HP website says "the security of HP" suggesting HP will stand behind them, I'm not sure of ownership structure or R&D details, we will have to wait and see.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    I don't want webOS dead. In fact, I want it to improve and become stronger. I like competition and choices. However, looking at this realistically, things aren't going well. All of the mobile manufacturers thought to be interested in webOS have stated very clearly that they are not at all interested. HP seems to be in a major transition into a software/services company. All this leaves webOS out in the cold. Couple that with the thought that hp does not actually have control of the key Palm patents (I believe another company actually controls and licenses those), and it is looking more and more like this is the end of the line.
    Funny, when I want something to go well I don't spend all my time pointing out it's negatives in public. I work behind the scenes to make it better. Why would someone want to use webOS if fans like you don't even want to use it or point out it's pluses? I'm realistic but I'm not a drag. A million new users is something worth cheering about!
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  11. cgk
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    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post

    I admit that the PSG has become or will become an orphan soon but they will still be the largest PC company in the world. If they want to survive they will have to push into the mobile market. Why not go with what you know?

    With what? That's the problem with being in the low margin PC game - it's profits are low and decreasing as consumers move away from PCs - that's why HP wants shot of them - You'll see the PSG doing Windows 8 tablets that are easy to put together, nothing more.
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    #92  
    k4ever, I was not upset or offended about the Mac vs PC numbers. I was simply pointing out that the PC market is not the tablet market. Since Apple has a very healthy development community for OS X, they don't need numbers to attract more developers. Tablets are different. A large user base is necessary to attract developers. Right now there is only one large user base, iOS. WebOS would need to continue this pace for many months before it became significant enough to attract the developers it needs.

    Again, I don't want webOS to die. I also don't wear rose-colored glasses. I believe that webOS won't die, actually. I think hp's plan for it is in printers and instant-on computers.
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  13. cashmonee's Avatar
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Funny, when I want something to go well I don't spend all my time pointing out it's negatives in public. I work behind the scenes to make it better. Why would someone want to use webOS if fans like you don't even want to use it or point out it's pluses? I'm realistic but I'm not a drag. A million new users is something worth cheering about!
    To be honest, I am rather disappointed in my Touchpad. It is a mediocre device. It makes me a bit mad, because webOS could be a very good option had hp tried, which it seems they didn't. After a couple of weeks with it, the majority of my TP use is as a nightstand clock using the amazing Touchstone and Simple Clock app (these show the potential). Anything more than that and the flaws become too much of a pain to deal with when I have an alternative at my disposal that works exactly as intended. As I said in this forum before, webOS did not fail because of price, it failed because while the potential and ideas where top-notch, the execution was mediocre at best.
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  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    To be honest, I am rather disappointed in my Touchpad. It is a mediocre device. It makes me a bit mad, because webOS could be a very good option had hp tried, which it seems they didn't. After a couple of weeks with it, the majority of my TP use is as a nightstand clock using the amazing Touchstone and Simple Clock app (these show the potential). Anything more than that and the flaws become too much of a pain to deal with when I have an alternative at my disposal that works exactly as intended. As I said in this forum before, webOS did not fail because of price, it failed because while the potential and ideas where top-notch, the execution was mediocre at best.
    The iPhone 1-3 were mediocre devices. Apple fans bought them anyway and help Apple to make better devices. If you want your platform to grow, sometimes you need to eat your dog food.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    To be honest, I am rather disappointed in my Touchpad. It is a mediocre device. It makes me a bit mad, because webOS could be a very good option had hp tried, which it seems they didn't. After a couple of weeks with it, the majority of my TP use is as a nightstand clock using the amazing Touchstone and Simple Clock app (these show the potential). Anything more than that and the flaws become too much of a pain to deal with when I have an alternative at my disposal that works exactly as intended. As I said in this forum before, webOS did not fail because of price, it failed because while the potential and ideas where top-notch, the execution was mediocre at best.
    if you dont like your TouchPad can you sell it to me please!...I will pay you cash money $99 + shipping!
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    With what? That's the problem with being in the low margin PC game - it's profits are low and decreasing as consumers move away from PCs - that's why HP wants shot of them - You'll see the PSG doing Windows 8 tablets that are easy to put together, nothing more.
    Are you kidding me? Microsoft started the tablet business and look where it got them. There are 100 times more TouchPad users than there were Windows tablet users. The tablet was all but dead until Apple stepped in and put a mobile OS on it. If the PSG wants to die a horrible death than by all means put Windows anything on their next tablet.
    Last edited by k4ever; 09/04/2011 at 03:29 PM.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    I highly doubt they made that many to begin with. Without confirmation from HP I highly doubt that many were out there to begin with
    I doubted it also until the Best Buy story proved to be right. What I don't understand is that if Galaxy Tab sales (not shipment) numbers are so low, why did Best Buy throw the Touchpad under the bus and not the Galaxy Tab? The story that started this rollercoaster ride claimed that Best Buy only sold 25,000 out of 250,000 TouchPads and threatened to send back the other 225,000. That would mean that Best Buy alone sold 5,000 more TouchPads before the fire sale than all other Galaxy Tab sales alone. We do know that Best Buy decided to sale its remaining stock and that it sold out in less than a day. So if the original story that started this all was true, there are at least 250,000 Best Buy TouchPad owners alone.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    To be honest, I am rather disappointed in my Touchpad. It is a mediocre device. It makes me a bit mad, because webOS could be a very good option had hp tried, which it seems they didn't. After a couple of weeks with it, the majority of my TP use is as a nightstand clock using the amazing Touchstone and Simple Clock app (these show the potential). Anything more than that and the flaws become too much of a pain to deal with when I have an alternative at my disposal that works exactly as intended. As I said in this forum before, webOS did not fail because of price, it failed because while the potential and ideas where top-notch, the execution was mediocre at best.
    If you are that disappointed and your other tablet fits your needs, sale your TouchPad on ebay and make a profit. That way you can benefit from it. If not join the development community and help us happy TouchPad owners realize you dream for it.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    You think people that want a $99 TouchPad will actually pay 3x that amount for one?
    others said it too .... But have you looked at ebay or amazon?

    it is not a stable market, but the current market is real
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
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    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    The iPhone 1-3 were mediocre devices. Apple fans bought them anyway and help Apple to make better devices. If you want your platform to grow, sometimes you need to eat your dog food.
    I, and many others would disagree. At the time of their release, nothing came close to matching those phones. The only exception might be the 3GS, which is a great device in its own right, but by that time Android had pretty much caught up.

    Quote Originally Posted by dj ozone View Post
    if you dont like your TouchPad can you sell it to me please!...I will pay you cash money $99 + shipping!
    I am considering selling it. However, it would of course be at the current market price. The thing is that with the Touchstone it makes a great clock/photo frame.

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