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  1. cashmonee's Avatar
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    #61  
    Just a couple comments on some of the ideas.

    Tablets are not consoles. Tablets have a shelf life of about 1 year. Consoles life cycles are much longer, minimum 5 years and can be up to 10 years. So while the 360 and PS3 originally were selling for losses, both are now turning a profit on each sale, and will continue to for the remainder of their life cycle. Also, consumers keep consoles longer than tablets, giving the makers more time to make the money back. Lastly, console makers generate money from extremely high licensing fees which makes it much easier to make up losses as opposed to relying on sub-$5 apps. In short, for the majority of tablet makers, the profit has to come from the hardware, with Amazon being the only possible exception.

    One other thing to the person saying $125,000,000 in profit is nothing to sneeze at. While that is true, don't forget how much of that profit will need to go back into the hardware and software development, including enticing developers to the platform. They need to generate a lot more than $125m in profit to pay for that stuff and still have something left over.

    In the end, there is a reason hp is abandoning this thing. Contrary to the belief around here, this is probably the best move for hp's future. WebOS is just a money-pit.
    chalx likes this.
  2.    #62  
    [QUOTE=cashmonee;3130801]Just a couple comments on some of the ideas.

    Tablets are not consoles. Tablets have a shelf life of about 1 year. \/QUOTE]

    The Apple store helpers are still carrying iPad1s in my neighborhood to check people in at the genius bar, suggesting that tablets have a shelf life of over 1 years. How much longer is hard to say as it is a new market. Unless the web, email, phone radically change, I don't see why it can't be at least 2 years, similar to a phone.
  3. cashmonee's Avatar
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    #63  
    [QUOTE=bluenote;3130812]
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    Just a couple comments on some of the ideas.

    Tablets are not consoles. Tablets have a shelf life of about 1 year. \/QUOTE]

    The Apple store helpers are still carrying iPad1s in my neighborhood to check people in at the genius bar, suggesting that tablets have a shelf life of over 1 years. How much longer is hard to say as it is a new market. Unless the web, email, phone radically change, I don't see why it can't be at least 2 years, similar to a phone.
    I was referring to development life cycle. In order to stay competitive, a mobile device maker needs a new model every year. Consoles, however, last much longer. Sony has stated that the PS3 will be around for at least 10 years. In fact, the current gen of consoles have been around for what, 5, 6 years? And there are no new versions on the horizon, save the Wii which would not qualify for this discussion as it turned a profit day one.
  4. #64  
    when they said , we could fight Apple, they sold only hundred,
    when they said Webos was going to hell , then sold a million in a week(or in an hour ).

    Wow, guess what will they say next ?
  5. #65  
    [QUOTE=cashmonee;3130837]
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post

    I was referring to development life cycle. In order to stay competitive, a mobile device maker needs a new model every year. Consoles, however, last much longer. Sony has stated that the PS3 will be around for at least 10 years. In fact, the current gen of consoles have been around for what, 5, 6 years? And there are no new versions on the horizon, save the Wii which would not qualify for this discussion as it turned a profit day one.
    Plus, the cost of manufacturing, say, a PS3 gets cheaper and cheaper over time. Sony counts on that when they plan a 10 year roadmap for their console. Mobile device makers don't have the luxury of waiting for component prices to come down because they're working on at least the next generation as soon as the current generation product ships.
    cashmonee likes this.
  6. #66  
    Hi all,

    My take on all of this, that a great deal of these TouchPads are now NEW converts to webOS...I would think that would be reason enough for someone to license webOS...at this point webOS is on life support and yet we will have just over a million new converts!!

    If HP could care less I hope someone else is paying attention!

    Take care, Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
    e-gadget-guy likes this.
  7. #67  
    Even at a cool X-million Macintoshes.... that still nothing compared Windows, which will
    reach X-trillion units sold by the end of this year. (all windows combined)
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by mc_gusto View Post
    Even at a cool X-million Macintoshes.... that still nothing compared Windows, which will
    reach X-trillion units sold by the end of this year. (all windows combined)
    ...and this comment is relevant, how?
  9. #69  
    It was a late comment to what Sandra said on page 1. Relax.
  10. Targon's Avatar
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    #70  
    In the PC industry, the design of the machines is set for a socket of some kind, so the CPU can be swapped. This allows for the same exact design to be used for two years or longer, yet offering faster and faster machines. HP could have done something like this if they thought about it for the phone/tablet market, and they would have done well. Instead, they sat around having focus group meetings to decide what and when they should offer, and by the time anything was released, on paper it wasn't going to be great when it came to phones.

    If the Pre 3 had been released instead of the Veer, WebOS sales would have been quite a bit higher before the Touchpad, and HP may have seen more value in the platform.
  11. cgk
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    #71  
    Since the bit of HP that is actually interested in consumer electronics is now left with a WebOS hardware division that makes no hardware and the software has been moved into the graveyard that is the OST - Leo has make the chance that this will end up on anyone's else hardware even more remote (I guess he is showing Bradley who is Boss).

    Look out for WebOS on printers, in your car and pretty on no devices you actually want to own as a consumer.
  12. #72  
    Don't forget. TP at Office Max in ad today 16g-399 32g-499. Back at higher price.
    Sprint: 2-TouchPad 32g, Frank.-Pre-2, Pre-, MiFi & 1-LG Lotus with Xlink tied to home handsets. Backups: 650 & 700wx

    HP Please release the CDMA Pre3 phones!
    We want them!!!
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by mc_gusto View Post
    Even at a cool X-million Macintoshes.... that still nothing compared Windows, which will
    reach X-trillion units sold by the end of this year. (all windows combined)
    thats a whole lot of blue screens.
  14. cashmonee's Avatar
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by mc_gusto View Post
    Even at a cool X-million Macintoshes.... that still nothing compared Windows, which will
    reach X-trillion units sold by the end of this year. (all windows combined)
    Unfortunately, the PC industry is not the mobile industry. Apple does not need to outsell, or even be close to sales of Windows. They already have a very healthy development community and make more profit than any PC maker, by a lot. In fact, they are more profitable than Microsoft if I recall correctly. The tablet market is not the same. Apple is the only maker with a major development community for tablet apps. Android will likely get there as they did with phones, but hasn't because the hardware has not sold. Same story with webOS. Second would be fine if it meant a market big enough to develop for. So far, that is not the case.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    I can almost believe it. They sold nearly 10M over a single quarter earlier this year and they could be ramping up for holiday sales now.

    Conversely, a Lenovo exec says Samsung sold only 2 percent of shipped Galaxy Tabs... so roughly 20k out of a million.

    Lenovo exec says Samsung sold only 2 percent of shipped Galaxy Tabs - Yahoo! News
    So there are only 20,000 Galaxy Tab users and over 800,000 Touchpad users? Good lord!
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    Just a couple comments on some of the ideas.

    Tablets are not consoles. Tablets have a shelf life of about 1 year. Consoles life cycles are much longer, minimum 5 years and can be up to 10 years. So while the 360 and PS3 originally were selling for losses, both are now turning a profit on each sale, and will continue to for the remainder of their life cycle. Also, consumers keep consoles longer than tablets, giving the makers more time to make the money back. Lastly, console makers generate money from extremely high licensing fees which makes it much easier to make up losses as opposed to relying on sub-$5 apps. In short, for the majority of tablet makers, the profit has to come from the hardware, with Amazon being the only possible exception.

    One other thing to the person saying $125,000,000 in profit is nothing to sneeze at. While that is true, don't forget how much of that profit will need to go back into the hardware and software development, including enticing developers to the platform. They need to generate a lot more than $125m in profit to pay for that stuff and still have something left over.

    In the end, there is a reason hp is abandoning this thing. Contrary to the belief around here, this is probably the best move for hp's future. WebOS is just a money-pit.
    Correction, Apple tablets have a shelf life of about 1 year. Your statement is the exact reason why people don't buy tablets and think they are toys. A one year shelf life? That's ridiculous! I've had my laptop for over 4 years and plan on having my Touchpad for at least 2 years, unless HP totally drops support. Who in their right mind (besides Apple folks) would pay laptop prices for something that is supposed to replace a laptop but will only last 1 year?
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    Unfortunately, the PC industry is not the mobile industry. Apple does not need to outsell, or even be close to sales of Windows. They already have a very healthy development community and make more profit than any PC maker, by a lot. In fact, they are more profitable than Microsoft if I recall correctly. The tablet market is not the same. Apple is the only maker with a major development community for tablet apps. Android will likely get there as they did with phones, but hasn't because the hardware has not sold. Same story with webOS. Second would be fine if it meant a market big enough to develop for. So far, that is not the case.
    So why do other tablet makers need to match or outsale Apple to be viable?
  18. #78  
    BTW, I did not buy a 10 inch smartphone. I bought a 10 inch portable computer. I expect it to last longer.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Targon View Post
    In the PC industry, the design of the machines is set for a socket of some kind, so the CPU can be swapped. This allows for the same exact design to be used for two years or longer, yet offering faster and faster machines. HP could have done something like this if they thought about it for the phone/tablet market, and they would have done well. Instead, they sat around having focus group meetings to decide what and when they should offer, and by the time anything was released, on paper it wasn't going to be great when it came to phones.

    If the Pre 3 had been released instead of the Veer, WebOS sales would have been quite a bit higher before the Touchpad, and HP may have seen more value in the platform.
    According to all the stories I read, HP built the Touchpad like a PC, not like a mobile phone. HP has gotten into trouble for it because the device is bulkier than the iPad 2 and the Galaxy Tab.
  20. cashmonee's Avatar
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Correction, Apple tablets have a shelf life of about 1 year. Your statement is the exact reason why people don't buy tablets and think they are toys. A one year shelf life? That's ridiculous! I've had my laptop for over 4 years and plan on having my Touchpad for at least 2 years, unless HP totally drops support. Who in their right mind (besides Apple folks) would pay laptop prices for something that is supposed to replace a laptop but will only last 1 year?
    Again, I was referring to their development cycle. Shelf life, as in how long they are on the sales shelf. Any mobile device maker knows that they can only expect to market a device for 1 year. After that, they had better have a new device out the door. Recently that has been extended to two years with the second year being spent as a low priced option (see iPhone 3GS). That is in stark contrast to a console which will be sold and marketed for upwards of 10 years before replacement. For example the Xbox 360 was released in 2005 with a end of life set at 2015 by MS. In fact, there are no rumors of new consoles at the moment aside from Nintendo who does not belong in the conversation since they made money on the Wii from day one.

    The point to all of this is that the 360 and PS3 being sold today are nearly the same component-wise to what was sold release day. Because of that, cost to manufacture has gone down and both are turning a profit on each sale now. In the mobile world, that is not a scenario that is possible. By the time the component price has fallen significantly enough, something new has to be released. So, one more time, consoles are not tablets/phones. Totally different ballgame.

    I know it is hard for the folks here that have supported webOS from the start, but it is over. HP is not, in fact, cannot sell the Touchpad at a loss. The only hope here is that webOS is licensed, which at this point looks highly unlikely.
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